SPEAKER_02 0:00

This episode of Why Did I Become a Doctor is brought to you in partnership with Medical Brief, South Africa's leading daily healthcare news service. Stay informed with trusted reporting, expert insights, and analysis that matters to healthcare professionals. Subscribe free at medicalbrief.co.za forward slash subscribe. Enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

So excuse me, I'm got a bit of a snuffle, so I might snuff.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

I made him sick.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Yes, I've been avoiding the flu like a plague. Everybody has a flu. I'm like, excuse me, let me just sit.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

But it feels it feels like everybody in Kao Tang is sick at the moment. Yeah, there's a lot of sickness.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Cool.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Ah, the first podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

First podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Good, good, good. Dr. Mimi Mukwevo. Did I say it right?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Yes, Mimi's right, but Mimi is actually a nickname.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Yeah. What's what's the full Mirir. Mui Miri. Yes. Mui Muriri.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yes. So like it sounds like I'm saying R, but I'm usually saying L-I, L E L I. Mui Miri.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Mmu Miri. And Mukwebo, how do I say? Mukwevo, yeah, you said it too. Mmu.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yeah. So the V H O at the end is actually mean like if you can say wo, like B-O. Yes. Mkwe.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Our our mutual friend has been schooling me, but I'm not learning. Yeah, Roton. No, no, you're doing good. It's like a Yes. Okay. Random. Do you enjoy being a doctor?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Me. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Really? Tell us. Can you tell us the truth? I do, I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

I do. I didn't enjoy operating. I think I decided early on. I don't want to touch anybody like that. I always say I haven't touched anybody like that. But I think I really do enjoy general practicing.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

I don't want to say I get bored when I do the same thing every day. But GP practice is interesting because it's different conditions, I guess. That's easier.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Okay. So operating wasn't your thing. I mean uh but then why why did you get into it in the first place? Isn't that what people think doctors do? They just operate. Operate. I was younger. What did you think a doctor does?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

What did I think a doctor does? I think I decided from a very young age, and I was going to be a doctor. Like I decided probably when I was like 10 or 11.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

And for what reason?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Just there was like a local doctor in where I stayed in Chandama.

unknown 2:11

Dr.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Ramasova, and he had the cutest little practice, and when I would go there every time, I'd be like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And his daughter also became a doctor. So this is amazing. I actually found out later that some other children of his were doctors as well. So I think I wanted to be just like him and I wanted to have my practice in my hometown. So I decided and I was like, this is what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

So where is the hometown?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

In Cheyenne, in Dimpoed.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

So clearly the practice is not there.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

No. My practice not.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

You won't be competing on your mentor. So the so the dream is not fulfilled yet?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yes, I guess. Hey?

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Is it still the dream?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Hey, we've changed.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Yeah. We realize we don't want to operate.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Yes, it realize we don't want to operate. But in X, I should have never really thought about this. I guess GP practice has always been what I equated to being a doctor.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Okay. Yeah. Now how come everybody I know from Limpopo is like well educated or like what what is it? What is it? Is it Limpopo or is it just my bias? Yes. Do you know any like people from Limpopo? Do you know people from Limpopo? Yeah, yeah. Do you know anybody that's useless from Limpopo? No. No, right?

SPEAKER_05 3:21

No, no.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Because everyone we know from Limpopo's left and gone out of Limpopo, done something and then gone back.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Really?

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

So I'm the only one I still miss, I'm still missing a going back, a homecoming of sorts.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

But serious question, like why in situation?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

I think it's because education is really, really like it's it's taken as a big standard. It's a it's a big thing. Um I think growing up as well, my grandmother would always say, get educated. The only man will never divorce you. And this was like from both sides, maternal and paternal. So education is something that we really respect. And so, like, if you're going to be a bum, heike, you're going to be a bum by yourself because everybody else was taught you need to be educated, you need to go to school. So then we aspire for the like I guess bigger careers, then we then you have to go to university. Like there's no option of I won't go to Vacity, I'll just take a gap here. A gap yeah is front upon you are taking a gap here. It's like you're just gonna driver's license.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

What's a gap yeah anyway?

SPEAKER_01 4:18

But it doesn't exist where I come from. It just it doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

But I'd like like I hate to generalize and stuff, but it is true, right? Like people from Limpopo, they really I don't know, they they value education. It's not a it's not just your small community.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

It's not like it's a general thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

I wonder how that happens here.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

We even fight to get to like prestigious high schools. Like what what happens now in counting we can't go to the best as we've been fighting for the past 20 years to get to the best high school.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

No, but that's a funny thing, because we had fa we were brought up in KZN, right? And all our family, all our cousins and stuff who lived in Joburg used to always look at uh like you know, joke with us and say, Why do you Durban people you only c worry about academics and stuff? So it's not necessarily Chao Teng, it's like it's very regional. Yeah, especially like geographically.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

I think the more rural it is, yeah, the more could be education is more varied because everybody wants like a better life. I don't know, but it's definitely there's something rural. I can definitely understand that.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

Okay.

unknown 5:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Maybe it goes to your point that you know like Joburg is such a friendly place that people don't feel the need to like want to do more communities and I is Joe Burg friendly now?

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Now you can't you said that. That's all I'm saying. One of our last episodes, we we interviewed somebody and they I said to them Joe Burg is the best city in South Africa and it's got the best people, and she disagreed with you.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

We're gonna we have drinking gauge. She disagreed hard.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

What uh whenever you say something outrageous, I'm gonna drink.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

So which is the where's the best place in the country?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Best place in the country except home. Okay I guess I guess except home is the best for me. But I live in Pretoria, so Pretoria is the best city in the in South Africa.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

You're living there now, because I live in Sharia.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

So it's the best city in the world because of that.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

But what makes it the best?

SPEAKER_01 6:00

The people are really friendly as compared to Joburg. Joburg is definitely not friendly. Even when you're driving. Never lived in Joburg. I never aspire to live in Joburg, but I visit Joburg a lot.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

But this is the thing, people always talk about traffic in Joburg. I get it. Yes, people are crazy on the roads. Yes. Road rich.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yes. But other than that, even when you're in a mall in Joburg, nobody smiles. No way. Because we smell getting dropped.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

I feel like there's traffic in the mall. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

If someone doesn't, if you want to overtake someone and thing, and then they're like And then they look weird, and then you're like, I feel like when I'm back home in Pretoria, because I live in the outskirts, like even if somebody just wants to pass, it's fine. Like they can enter in front of me. It's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

But you lived in Joe Burg and Pretoria. What's your opinion?

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Joe Burg is the best.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Really?

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Which part of Gilbert? Maybe if you don't know that I tried something like that.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

One of the first times I drove in Pretoria, I'll never forget somebody who told me and said, I did something wrong. I was a very junior driver at the time. This is, you know, a student, second year student. And I go, guys, this is F off in Afrikaans Durban. Because I had an ending number plate. Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, that's good. You actually profiled you according to your region. But the number plate said M. It started with the M. But also the weird thing is, so Joe Berg, you're talking about malls, right? And people don't even smile at you. When I moved from KZN to Ghauteng to study, and I'd walk around, I noticed that Ghao Teng people just walk faster. They do everything is fast.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Because you don't want to be robbed. Because when you come from the village, they tell you one thing and one thing. No, fast.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Don't talk to me. Even in like Mendel and stuff. The guys were walking like crazy.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yeah, because it's Mendlin.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

I used to always tell like Raven Kirsten, he's a neurologist now, I think. Yeah, neurologist. Be like, you guys on Ghao Teng, just walk so fast. Where are you guys going?

SPEAKER_01 7:47

No, it's because you don't want to be pickpocketed. You don't want anyone to sell you a story because once they sell you a story, next thing you know you're in a car, next thing you know, you don't have your phone, next thing you've sent 3,000 to someone. Literally, those are things that I've had for you. It's a survival mechanism. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

Right. For me, anyways. I used to always think because I used to always tell the guys, it's because Joe Burg and Chao Teng is so boring that like you just want to get to your destination. No, no, no, there's nothing to like watch. You know, in at least in Durban or something, it's a little bit more than a little bit. There's the ocean there.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

You spoke about Mindlin. It's a beautiful mall to just like marvel at. But okay, I'm gonna say that. Yeah, it's not a building, but you can look. You can see like the light sun-eyes, you can see it, you can look at stuff. But once you do that, somebody thinks you're just bittering and maybe you can help diversify it. Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

You're the one that's asking. The one thing I'll say about Pretoria that it has over Joburg is that it's got lots of places to take your kids. Absolutely. Compared to Joba.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I don't think it's a lot. I think it's just safer and slower.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Yeah. It's nice. It's cleaner, it's quiet, everything things work, there's fewer potholes. Um I don't know, hey?

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Maybe because I live there.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Yeah, no, no, but Pretoria is nice. I like it, it's got a special place in my heart. I lived there for five years. Had the best for some of the best five years of my life there. But it's this is about you now. Back to you. Where did you where did you grow up? Like tell us.

unknown 9:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

So I am a very rural girl.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

And I didn't accept that until I came to the city. I thought I was from a township. Because I grew up, it's it's a place called Cheyenne. It's in Deep in Venda, very close to Tendu, right off the R524. So like when you get to like if you're going to Messina, if you're going to like Bait Bridge on the N1, then you get to a place called Makado, that was previously called Lustrichut, then you take a turn and you take the most beautiful drive of your life. Like literally when I drive home, the trees just start coming in like this when you pass Live Bubu, and I just feel like it's my people hugging me or like the old people hugging me. So I grew up in those rurals. So the one thing about the place I grew up, Shayanduma, is that when I grew up, it was called a loction because it was one of the first places to get electricity post apartheid. So we grew up with electricity, whereas the other villages didn't really have. So I didn't realize that I was from a village until I moved here.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

How far from the border is that?

SPEAKER_01 10:05

It's about 200, not even 200, maybe 150. Shyandema. Shayandema.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Shayandema. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Shiny, it's place of light. Um Shyandema, no, no, not place of light. It's what we used to call Shyandema Mawuni. So Shyandema, actually, because of how we how rural it is, people who were buying stands, they were buying stands from the municipality. So they didn't have anywhere where they could plant like their land and um put stuff like maize meal and stuff. So there wasn't a lot of land to do that as compared to the other villages. So then they were just like, ah, yeah, the people who live here, they don't have a place to plant inks. So Cheyandim are literally that's just what it means. And then plant things, like yeah, like maize meal. You know, we are famous for avocado trees, banana trees, all of that. So that's a big part of my culture where I come from. Where people plant.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

And the language is chivenda. Chivenda, yeah. Venda. Yes. Aka Venda.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Aka Venda. But Renda is the place. Chevenda is the language is the language, chevenda or ruvenda. The people are very pedantic about that. Civenda or Ruvenda is the language. Or I didn't know the the or the ruvenda part is where now you like go deeper deeper part into it, like the the older people. Like let's say my late grandmother, for example, she wouldn't say chevenda, she would say ruvenda because of how they would see themselves.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Oh. What's the significance? What is what's the difference? What does Ruvenda mean?

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Ruvenda is the same thing as chivenda. It means the language. Ruvenda is the language, and then muvenda is the person.

SPEAKER_05 11:32

Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

So chivenda is like what we've just said. Also, like when you write on your exam papers, it comes as chivenda home language.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

But back in the day, it literally used to be Ruvenda Home Lambda.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

So it's like it's like a country is called Botswana. Yes. But if you found Botswana, you motswana.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Thank you, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Exactly like that. Yeah, can you talk? Can you understand? No, definitely not.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Nah. That's just how.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Yeah. So Shandima, what was it? What was it like growing up in Shia and Dima?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Shandema, it was dusty. But Dusty. Dusty.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

But because it was Mabonini, the pace of lights, like I said earlier. It was one of the more developed places. Schools were easier to get to. And like our parents, we had to work maybe like a good 10Ks to go to school. We'd work like one or two Ks to go to school.

SPEAKER_05 12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

So, but it was a very homey vibe. It still feels like home. There weren't really cows because, like I said, there were no places to plant. So people didn't have crawls there. But it was a little bit modern. We did have electricity. We did have water. But growing up there in retrospect is actually like very fulfilling that we got to do the clean. Paint the grass, you paint the mud.

SPEAKER_05 12:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

In the dust. All of the dust. You come home looking like, I don't know. You were like, you know, like how sandwater intervenes?

SPEAKER_02 12:52

I've seen that meme. There's a meme of a kid that's covered in dust.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yes, that was me. For the first like six, seven, eight years of my life coming home. And then I remember my mom would stand on a veranda and call me with my full name, and then I know I'm in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Why why is it why was is it so dusty?

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Um it's not very dusty, but compared to here, it's it's dusty because there's no tarot.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Okay. That's and what do people what's like what is the main industry there? What do your folks do?

SPEAKER_01 13:18

People in Chinema, what do we export? Except broken hearts. Apparently, we export broken hearts.

unknown 13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

There's a story there.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Apparently that's what we export. But Chandra was actually known for really educated people, I guess. And tarots. There were no tarotes at my house, but tarotes.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

And heartbreakers, clearly.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

And heartbreakers clearly. But this is like we can argue about that. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

And your folks?

SPEAKER_01 13:41

My folks, my mom is a teacher.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

My dad is a pastor. So education was also very important in my household.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

And I'm sure I'm sure you like your family probably played a big part in the community.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yes, um, they did, because my dad was a pastor. Obviously, like he did a lot of teaching, also went to school. So I'm not the first graduate in my family, unfortunately for me. Yeah. My mom did go to Nissa, so already you could see that people think, but my grandmother didn't do us and they graduate. So my parents were first generation graduates.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

And what grades did your mom teach? My mom's a teacher.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

My mom teaches high school.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Um, she actually teaches at an old old high school. She still teaches. She still teaches, she's not retired yet. Oh. I don't know. Mom, please.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

It's time. Why? Why? Let her have a I have children. Clearly, she enjoys it.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

I have children.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

She has a new job.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I have children. That's literally it.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Yeah, that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yeah, so that should be her new job.

SPEAKER_05 14:32

Yeah. Being a graduate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

So my mom teaches high school. Um, right now she teaches grade um 10, 11.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Do you know what subject?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yes, she's a chivanda. Oh, cool. But she also used to teach like become accounting.

SPEAKER_05 14:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Um, I actually went to private school, then went to public school when I was in grade. There was a switch from grade three and four. And then when I went to the public school, I had not yet learned how to do chevanda at all because in the school I went, they only started at the grade that I switched at. So when I started with the new kids in grade four, I had no idea what chivanda looked like. I didn't know how to spell it, I didn't know how to write, I didn't know how to read. My mom had to like do lessons to teach me from scratch because I'd already missed three grades of that.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

So you were like almost like a a foreigner in your own?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yes, I was a coconut. Yeah. It's very simple. And I was very good at English, I was very fluent and I could read. And I would do well in all my subjects except Chile.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

And what prompted that move from private to We my parents had other children.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Okay. And I think it just became expensive.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

In this economy. I don't know how people have more than one child anyway. Guys, we don't know guys.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

You know, I like now, like recently, right? I mean, people of our age, you ask them like how many siblings you have, and then them what's the maximum number you've had? Two siblings. Like maximum three in a family.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Three in a family.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

For us, maximum is four.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

I had a a patient today, she's 24. She's got nine siblings.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah, that's definitely out of the norm.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Well, unusual. Yes. Super unusual.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

How do you afford nine siblings?

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah, it's yeah, I know siblings is a lot.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

But that's the thing. Back in the day they used to have they used to have k kids like that. Yeah, it didn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Like yeah, my parents also have six, nine, eight siblings.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Oh, yes. So it's not it's all about the money. It's just like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

No, but back in the day things were cheaper. You could probably afford it. Really? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Was it cheaper?

SPEAKER_02 16:34

I don't think it's about the money. I don't know, eh?

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Now it's about money. I don't know what it was before then, but now it's technically about me.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

How did we even get to this conversation now? I can't even remember. We were talking about your mom teaching.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Yeah. But which is better, private or pub uh public school?

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Oh. I I think I had a no, I didn't have a good experience because I lost my shoes when they were thrown. The first week of school. Yeah. And I was in grateful. Um, but I guess because public schools made me where I am today, I guess private would have been a bit better, but the public school system where I grew up was really working well. And like I said, we fought to get a top spot to my Alma Mata Ambiri Secondary School. Don't have a heard of it. It does really well in like Lim Bumpo grade outreaches and does it really almost always places famous 400% in medicine science and distinctions. Things have gone a little bit downhill, but when I was growing up, that was like the standard.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

What was it the just good teachers or what?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

It was the people. The people were really excellent. And if you check a lot of Miri graduates um or people who went to Biri, they've gone on to do really, really amazing things in respective fields. Like I don't know if you've ever heard of Prof. He went there as well. So like there's a lot of people who've done very good things who went to that.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Limpopo exports a lot of like top people. It does. It does. So from the age of 10, then you knew I'm another.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

I knew, and my life was set, and that's all I chased. So when when Doc was saying, what do I do on weekends? From the time I was in grade seven, what I did on weekends was find out about medical school, which mm which medical school I'm going to, which high school I'm going to, what marks I needed, and I had to work on my math and science, and I went to extra classes from grade. Like I was doing extra math and science classes because I knew where I was going. Like there was no doubt and no question.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

And you didn't need anybody to force you or like your parents to say coastal.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Oh, my parents were just very supportive because already there's going to be a doctor in the family. So they were very, very supportive.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

That's so cool to be self-motivated like that.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

And have uh to have a decisive decision that early in life.

SPEAKER_05 18:46

What were you doing?

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Sure. Playing cricket in the weekend.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Absolute nonsense. Cycling in the mountain.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yeah. Well, it's it worked out okay, I guess. But I mean it's it must be cool to know from that age. Yeah. And then pursue it and go for it. So where were you planning on? Like, did you have a particular university that you had in the world?

SPEAKER_01 19:06

I know where I didn't want to go.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Yeah. Where didn't you want to go to?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I didn't want to go to Stan and Bosch.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

I didn't want to go to Free State.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

I didn't want to go to UP.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Yeah. Where why? What did you hear?

SPEAKER_01 19:17

I look like me again.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

I'm black. And um we we sort of like those places had were notorious for known for being highly racist. So if you wanted to finish your MBCHP, you definitely were not going.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

And when about was this? Like w which years around?

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Which years? So I'm a I finished my metric in 2008.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Okay, so not that long.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

I mean it's not that long ago, but we it it was already it was notorious. And this is like decisions I'm making in like what, 2003, 2002?

SPEAKER_05 19:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Um but by the time I like it wasn't great, and I knew all the universities in South Africa but over MBCHB and where I was potentially going to apply.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Do you think it's still that way? Do you think like currently your age? No. And and well not your back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Are thinking about that, like you know, from a Are they thinking about them then or now?

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Now.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Nah, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

It's changing. Yeah, I would hope so. I would hope so, yeah. I don't know. Genuine question, but um like choosing not to go somewhere because of other people.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

Yes, literally.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

And also, like I wonder where do we hear these things? You know, how do we it filters down somehow?

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Honestly, because of the way our our high school was set up, we would have experienced two previous students that have passed. And because their high school was so uh prestigious, there were literally kids who would get picked to go to UP Takis, something called Takis, which junior takis, and then they would take like kids from grade 10 to grade 12, and then they would take them in, show them how rest life is because it was so rural and stuff. So they would come back with the stories. Okay and also other people who went to those universities and their cousins, the stories would would trickle down to us as young as grade 10, grade 11.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

They would before the days of social media and yes, correct?

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Yeah, yeah, there was no drillion, no, there was mix it. Oh, yeah. That is not the stuff you spoke about in Mixit. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

And MiG, MiG 33. Oh yes, I forgot about MiG 33. Yeah, you don't know. No, I was in Mauritius. He was in Mauritius at the time. Yeah. And they put message in a bottle and then smash them by and hope it reaches us. So where did you end up applying?

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Like I ended up applying to three universities. Okay, UKZ and I didn't actually apply, but it was part of the list. And it was still the time they had CAO. So I don't even know why I didn't apply. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

You're bringing back old memory. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

So UKZ was part of the list, but I didn't apply. I ended up applying to U um U C T at Medusa.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

And I got in both.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yeah. And then?

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Um I had a fight with my dad and I ended up at Medusa.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Tell us about the fight. What happened? You you wanted to go to Cape Town? Sounds like a few years.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Yes, I wanted to go to Cape Town. No, I wanted to he won.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

What about other things? I don't want to say a random boy, but boys. Okay. And I wasn't behaving myself appropriately like a person who wanted to go study in Cape Town.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

The heartbreakers of community.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yes. And then I ended up in mergenza.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

So your dad said you're not going to Cape Town because you're going to go there, party, and fit.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah, I can go to the city.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

That sounds like my dad.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Yes. So I ended up in the Cape Town.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

I'm sure it's like most people's period. Yeah. I don't know. Even probably to this age.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah, I'd I think I'd also still now, if my kids wanted to go to UC, I'm like, hey, let's think about this clearly.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Let's let's check your everything. But look at them, the way they're making it as if Medunza is boring, you're not gonna have fun there. But how how was it then?

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Like Medunza.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Um, because I was coming from a place where it's a closed environment and you didn't have experience too much, it was a university experience.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Moved in to raise, had a roommate, made all these friends, and we just schooled.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Did your parents like go drop you off at the Yes, my dad did. Who?

SPEAKER_01 23:14

My dad. My same father.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

It was just to make sure He wanted to make sure everything was fine.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

They did drop me off. Like spent like two days doing the orientation and it was cute. Was he was he sad to leave you or he kee my because my dad is a pastor, he prayed for me.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

And you see, when you first move into Awares, it had a bed and a desk. And he sat on the chair and he gave me a very good talk. He's like, just imagine this as your practice. Or you're gonna be sitting here on your desk and then here's the patient sitting on the bed. So those words like have really carried me through. So and that time the room is bare. So don't even have curtains. So that was literally the talk. And then you start from scratch. So the university experience, I think at the time, Medonsa was really, really trying to like make us go into it, like incorporate no matter how rural you are. Obviously, you didn't know a lot of things and stuff, but like the orientations and some of the subjects we took really made integration easier. And I think also because 90% of the kids were places where I was from. Um, either kids are in rural um, did you have any friends like school friends that came with you? Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

That's that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Yes, so people that I knew from high school. Yeah, we all got into Metusa. So yes, we were friends.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

And how far is Medunsa from where you were?

SPEAKER_01 24:33

From now or hope. Medunsa is in Pretoria, guys. It's in Harangua.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

So it was uh That's like northern Pretoria, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:41

So it's like a good 600, 600k from hope. But it was quite easy to get there because there was buses. And because this is Pretoria Central, so everybody would get on the bus. We just got on the bus. Okay, the first time around it was on the bus, but second, third time around, just get on the bus with all your bags. And there were pep people who did not really afford for their parents to come, parents didn't have cars. So they came first time with a bus with just a singular bag. Um sometimes it wasn't even a cute bag. So I know people like that who just came straight off with their bag and then you're like, give me a room. They gave you a room, you moved in, and then you hustled everything up.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Sure. And did you do you used to go home for holidays and things? Often. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Because it was close.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

And what was med school like?

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Med school was a lifetime, an experience. Yeah, but I think it was quite easy for me because I had friends. Yeah. Um, but I do remember one moment in the auditorium where they said, Why did you become a doctor? And I said, I wanted to cure HIV and I was gonna use cannabis to do it.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Wow. This is why the old man didn't send you to Cape Town. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah, so yeah, I I remember saying that and I remember prof like, eh, cannabis. But I think I'm on the right track, guys. We're doing a lot with cannabis this day.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Not me, but you had high aspirations.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Very high aspirations.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

But and Medunsa is a five-year degree, right? Six. Six. And did you hang around with the dental students at all? No.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Uh for the first year, I think year one, yes, we had combined BSE classes.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

But then you guys just Yeah, then we separated. You never had any friends in dentistry.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Not really.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

These medics.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

There were medics and then there were and then there were there were dentists and then there was PSC students. So everybody kind of like kept to their kicks.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Okay. Yeah. Sounds like a system more hierarchy.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

That's what it sounded. The way she was saying it got to be.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

And then BDS and BDT. And then BSC. That's how it works. Yeah, it is. What's BDT? Dental therapy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Dental therapy. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

So BDS, BDT, and then BSC. Yeah. People are gonna kill me for this, but but I don't make the rules.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Yeah, you just I would have gone disinforced the black. Yeah, but it's good. That's how they think. That's how they're not.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

It's not the same. Right.

SPEAKER_05 27:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

And also the single room allocation showed how the hierarchy was.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Will it explain that?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Yes. Your own room. Yes. Single room allocation. So when you're in like year one, two, year three for MBCHP, you used to share. And then once you get to fourth year, then you have a single room.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Okay. That's fine. But that's in medicine. Yeah. And the dentist had the same. Similar. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Alright, I thought maybe now they're only gonna give the single medicine. That's that's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

No, no, no. It does, but that would that shows you the hierarchy as well.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Ah, yeah. But I'm glad you said it because that's they all these doctors think like, yeah, we know this, right? No, we can't do this. I don't think like that all that.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Like I said, because it's just how it is. It's not me. I don't know, maybe things have changed now.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

I mean, my university doesn't exist anymore, so maybe things have changed.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

I mean they move it out of their stethoscopes, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Yes, and they have clinical codes.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

I mean, what did the dentist walk around? Like clinical codes as well, right? Yeah. Scrubs. Making impression, though. Scrubs are a new thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Scrubs are scrubs are new guys. Scrubs, scrubs, okay, they're not new, new, but.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

It wasn't our time.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yeah, we we had we had scrubs. But white coats were better.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Yes, yes. We had the white coats. And you passed every year?

SPEAKER_01 28:28

I passed every year. I didn't repeat a single year.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Okay, cool. And then after you finish you have to do internship, right? Yes. Where do you go?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

I I wanted to do go a few places. I wanted to go back home, homecoming. It didn't happen. I ended up doing my internship in Wit Bank.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Okay, because internships gotta be um like an academic hospital, right? Yes. So where where would have been the place at home if you Shitizenia Hospital. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

I don't want to say it's the place where I was born, but literally Shiridzini and my where I'm from, you you walk is a good kilometer. But they still I think they still offer internships, though the teaching was a bit low, and more of the academics will say, Yeah, you do need to be in an academic setting so that you can learn the right way and not do Bundu medicine.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Yeah. Yeah. So why do you want to go home?

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Like I said, I really wanted to serve my community for the longest time. Yeah, and then I grew up. But yeah, I really wanted to serve my community for the longest time. But I did do my commser at home in a place called Hiani Hospital. And that's when I fell in love with Psych to begin with.

SPEAKER_05 29:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

And then because the hospital was purely Psych. Okay. And then that's why I did my ComSurve. And it was like Isn't it hectic? It is. You you say Vesco Peace of you ever heard of Vesco Beach Hospital? Yeah, literally that, but in a very rural setting.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

And what does that have to do with it? We have Fort Napia. The the notorious notorious one in the world.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

The one with the maximum what?

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Maximum security ward.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Oh, really? Is it notorious for them? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Because I agree uh these people who do all of these really weird crimes with psych conditions, they can't go to jail. But they also can't be in the society. So where do they go? The psych hospital, and we keep them there in places that look very similar to jail, but it's not jail.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

So did you want to specialize?

SPEAKER_01 30:17

I did.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

In psychiatry.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

In psychiatry. And then life happened.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Why? What do you mean life happened?

SPEAKER_01 30:23

I fell in love. I'm a little boy. See, my mother was right on along. I met a boy. Fell in love.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Not at the hospital. No.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

No, not at the hospital before then in med school. Like in like um yeah year four.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Okay, so another doctor.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yeah. Okay. He was not a doctor, he was a physiotherapist. He's a physiotherapist. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Yes, a lot of people. Maybe he needed a single room.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

He had a single room.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

Okay, okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, lovely. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

But that didn't it didn't work out. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

All right.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Fast forward a few years later. But what we mustn't say happily divorced ne. We must just say divorced and and leave it at that. Okay. So things didn't work out. Yeah. Um, but yeah, we keep moving.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Yeah. So maybe but and and you never thought it's so the sp the specializing thing is over now. It's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

For me, it might still happen. I feel like I'm still young.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

But I think I'm enjoying GP practice.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

When what I do way too much. Uh, because now I do telehealth.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

And I get to sit in my house and help people.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Now tell us how so after ComServe, right? Most of the people I know, like they get an MO post somewhere or something and then eventually they either sp they specialize generally. Generally, yeah. Like fewer people are going to GP practice these days. Am I right? Or is that just my It's your experience. Yeah, or experience.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Yeah. Um there are not that many, especially supposed to go around.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Right. So what do people do?

SPEAKER_01 31:53

What do you do as a doctor then after After after after Compsov, I got an MO position where I was. But then I moved for life. And then I moved to the cytoputeria. And then I went and I worked in clinical research. For the first time in my life, I realized that doctors don't just doctor patients.

SPEAKER_05 32:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

I realized that medicine has this beautiful thing where you can collaborate with big pharma and do clinical research. For me, it was like an eye-opener. I didn't even realize that doctors could work not as doctors.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

And who tells you about this? How do you find this out?

SPEAKER_01 32:25

I think I was quite serious in my moods. And I I kept applying for MO posts in psychiatry, I wasn't getting them. Rich posts in psychiatry wasn't getting them. Um I was writing letters, just getting no response. So I had to pivot. And that's when I learned about Kinkar resisted. We're looking for somebody who just is post-com served within HPCSA. And then they taught me about what is GCP grouping practice. I learned that, and then I got uh an MO post slash sub-investigator post in a small research center called Sichawa in in the outs, in the outskirts of Petrae Soshangovie, which was not even very far from where I went to school. Okay. So Karunka Soshangu were very close. And then that's when I really found other things outside of GP practice that I didn't even think I wanted to be a GP at that point. And I was thrown into this very fast, fast, fast-paced world of clinical research, finding out that before drugs come, guys, this phase one research until phase five. I didn't know that. And then the pandemic hit.

SPEAKER_05 33:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

COVID. By that time at the research site, we were doing primarily HIV research, of which I it felt very close to my heart because it's what I actually wanted to intend to do to cure HIV. So we were working on HIV vaccines, we were working on I don't want to say Len CAP if you've heard about the indictable prep tutorial. Yeah, just we but that wasn't in 2020 when I started, but we didn't work on that type of research as well. So even CAB, the other one. But at the time COVID had. And for the first time we were all really scared. Um, and then they told up about this Oxford research, this Oxford vaccine. I kept saying, guys, we are the ones that told you it did it doesn't work because we were doing it. We are the ones that said, yeah, you see, people don't jump on walls after you give that. So it was a very good thing for me to go through because then I could see how much misinformation gets spread out. And also being from such a raw area now, being thrown deep into big pharma pharmaceuticals, what research actually is. Many people didn't understand what I did, what my role was as a doctor in the research site. And then that's when I learned, and then from then onward it became too hectic, I guess. I wanted something more chilled. Then I found telehealth.

SPEAKER_05 34:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

And then I started working in telehealth, and then I resigned from my job, and I've been doing telehealth consistently since 2023.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

On 2022, I'm a liar to drink.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

On the clinical research thing, it's good money.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

It it was okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

But it was far from where I stayed. So we spent a lot on transport. But it was very rewarding.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

And then telehealth now? Tele what's telehealth is stupid practice. Yeah. Just remote.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

How do you not are you consulting patients?

SPEAKER_01 35:21

I consulting patients. Just not in person.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Never at all.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

I do my practice. Sometimes we do hybrid visits where I can do home visits or I or we meet at my my cousin's practice.

SPEAKER_05 35:36

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Uh in Bradston. So that's it. And also sometimes I do like pop-ups, but primarily online.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

How does it work? Like is it?

SPEAKER_01 35:45

How does it work? Um I'm employed, not gonna say the employer's name, I'm employed by an ink that has a contract with a big pharmacy in South Africa. Okay. So what we do, we offer the service as like a third party.

SPEAKER_05 35:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

So you walk into that pharmacy, and then there's a clinic with a nurse, and then when the nurse determines or when you determine that you want to see a doctor, then they connect and we literally the people on the other side.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

And I think this chem also should have mentioned that.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Something like that.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

Yeah, but they also have that.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

And I saw that recently actually, but there was someone that was telling them the symptoms. And you know, normally sometimes pharmacy pharmacists are like guilty of like diagnosing and dispensing.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Yes, and dispensing. Stop quoting.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Making disparaging comments about pharmacists, yeah. I thought it was freeful. The views expressed by actors. I said sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

I don't know what I've heard standing in the line. Standing in the line, yes. Yeah, but then now I see there's there's a section where they're like 10 people and then they go and they do like a quick console. That's pretty cool because it's instantaneous uh access that you're getting.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

And from anywhere. And from places like I don't want to say like where there are not many GPs. Yeah. Like maybe Gurman, I don't know, guys, please forgive me. Yeah. Um, where there's like one or two GPs.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

I get you. I get you. You can do that from anywhere in the world.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

I can do it from anywhere in the world. So at the practice I work at, there are actually a few some doctors that have been overseas.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

But they could still, because their license was still thingy, it was still valid, they could still see patients.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

So you just your internet just needs to be fast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

But wait now. I mean, a lot of what you have to do as a as a clinical doctor involves diagnostics. So then uh uh is the pharmacy doing that for you. So what is diagnostics uh like t temperature, weight.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Um No, you've moved forward. Let's go back. Before you touch the patient.

unknown 37:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

Symptoms.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Yeah, symptoms. A large majority of your diagnosis is gonna come from symptoms, anyways. Because it's even gonna tell you what to look for. Not that you should never check.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

I mean, why are they Googling this stuff then?

SPEAKER_01 38:00

I don't know, but for me, it's a lot of it comes from what you're gonna talk to the patient. Um sometimes it's just a toothache. Sometimes it's clearly an abscess. And sometimes you need an x-ray, you're not sure. And the same way you can't do an x-ray while you're sitting like this, you take them to the x-ray room, is the same way where I'm sitting, and I'm like, huh. I don't know. Hey, it could be an in-grown tooth, it could be an abscess.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

That's a good idea. Yeah, yeah. We know I'm gonna use that.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

It could be an in-grown tooth. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Hey, go to Xion, thank you, Doc. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

So there's only could be an impaction or an abscess. Sometimes you need an X-ray. Sometimes it's quite easy to see. But I think for dentists it's a bit more difficult because you need to touch everything. But for me, when it's an abscess and I'm quite sure like everything and the history fits, it's it's not as difficult because not every single patient needs an x-ray. So when you reach a point where you can't touch and you feel like, no man, I I don't know what this is, then you can send the patient.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

But with your setup, the patient is going to a place. Yes. It's not like they they're calling you from home or dialing in on, you know, whatever. So there is some like a facility where there's a facility.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

But there are places where we do it where there is no facility.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Okay. And how did they get on then? On their computer or the computer, their phone. Okay. Have you ever had a telehealth consult? Yes. I have. And I think during COVID, I mean I was sick.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Yes, that's when really there was like a spike in telehealth because we couldn't touch the patients. It wasn't safe.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

I think COVID is what kind of normalized telehealth. Yes, it did. You know, made the regulators become a bit more progressive towards it in their views.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

And now but that check is out of the books. It's not going back in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

And how's the providers? Are they are they covering it well enough?

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Some are. Some don't want to be.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

I don't I don't get that question. Party. Oh, like like medical agents. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Some do. Um most do, actually.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Um, but some they don't pay as well. There are certain goods that pay better than others. And there are certain providers that even have their own portals.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

I mean, and are patients aware of this?

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Because it's some are, but not nearly as much. I always think of it as let's look at how it is in the third world. And because a lot of doctors are worried about telehealth taking over their practices. And I say it's a part of primary healthcare. Is that a thing? Yes, it's a thing. That's it's it's fear-mongering, it's big amounts. Oh, I never thought about this.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

I would think that you even with AI, you go one further, and doctors are gonna become redundant in the system.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Within the system. It could people are scared of that.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Yeah, I get that. I mean, that's us against the machines, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

But here I never thought about it in the context of doctors against doctors and uh other doctors that do it, because you charge a little less for it. Okay, it's definitely more affordable to charge 800, right? Some people do though. Um, but now it's a instead of being so scared of it, put it in. And if you're not comfortable doing it, use it as a peak primary health and use it as a screening.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

For for difficult patients, for patients who are stable, and use it as a first contact. There will always be patients that can't be helped online.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

And then you refer.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

And then you refer. Um, so actually the advice is from me, anyways, make it hybrid. Don't let other people come take it, and then now you have no access and all you work on is people that work in.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Yeah, and also like adapt, right? Yes. Get with the time. Now that it now that we're talking about it, I'm remembering like Discovery had this thing where I can't remember it was called Taito or something, like a little device that stays by and it can check like a lot of your stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Thank you. Then I've never tried it, but it is actually called Taito. Yeah. Not many people have access to it, but now you even have smart watches. Because your smartwatches read blood pressure, they read they read those things. Oh, in terms of experience, especially the difficult and dangerous science, like an AF, like a very fast heart rate, and precedent is dead DZ. But I think the same applies when some GPs can't help with steminations, for example. They don't want to see pregnant females, for example. So I think the same applies to a telehealth practice. There are just certain things we can't help you with, like really small kids, the same way you can't pharmacists can't even recommend anything if a child is less than two. I mean, very similar things you can apply in your telehealth practice and you can actually tailor make it to fit what you are interested in and what you want to do.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Yeah, and if if it's not doable, then you refer. Okay, cool. That's really interesting. So how come you're still living there in Pretoria then? You can live anywhere in the world you want.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

I told you Preto's the best in the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Apparently, there's nice people.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

There's nice people, there's nice stuff in Pretoria. I don't have to struggle. Guys, have you ever been to the middle of Ender in December? Like on Christmas Day.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

What is it? It's boiling.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

It's a mess. I don't mind the shows. We are the tourists.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

The homecoming. Oh, it's the same in Durban. The old heartbreakers are going home.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Theyartbreakers and their heartbreakers, guys. They are here and they're there with their nicest house.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

And they're Gewagons and their boats.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

So somebody will hold a boat when it was a pick my mother's house. And it's uh boat. Look, there's no lake.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Yeah, they're gonna go fishing. I'm gonna say something that's gonna annoy the Limpop Limpans. I see another pick with an L, I'm like I I drive far away. Right. I know I don't just drivers. Yeah, I don't know. That's Limpopo.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

It's getting L D.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

That L is for luxury.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

It's getting N D.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

But you know, whenever I see like a luxury car here in Joe Burg, a V class, a V class is always a good V classes and G wagons.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

It's always for me it's always MP. It's it's Limpopo and MP for my lungs.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

That is also true, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Especially the black V classes.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

V class, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that is. I want a V class. You want V class?

SPEAKER_01 43:56

What do you can do with the V class?

SPEAKER_02 43:57

I'll put a L number plate on it. Just a vibe. Windows.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Perhaps. I couldn't see that.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

No, I'm a heartbreaker. Definitely. Now Limpopo's gonna come at me. Whatever, it's fine. I said nice things about you guys earlier. Um the TikTok thing now? When did that happen?

SPEAKER_01 44:19

So TikTok was actually now I'm doing weight loss online.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Not something I set out to do. But unfortunately life just keeps finding me. So what did you say then?

SPEAKER_03 44:28

You do what class? Weight loss. Weight loss.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

I help patients lose weight. Okay. And we I guess for for TikTok, you actually have to be a little bit controversial for who to get the likes and the views. And GLPs at the moment are very controversial. Why? I don't know. Because the research strongly supports it. But I think it's just other like telehealth, again, controversial. Why we just have not accepted, we haven't arrived as a people.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

So telehealth is also controversial?

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Mostly because the regulators have not caught up. Legislature definitely hasn't caught up. And the uptake by the doctors themselves are supposed to provide the service is not great. And as a result, the public still looks at you like, you're gonna do a whole assessment online. Njamises.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Okay. So are you not worried about complaints and things like that?

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Being com it's it's actually it is it is a thing, but I think once you've taken a full history, in my opinion, um it should it should count as the bare minimum. Because how many times do you really go to the doctor and be physically touch?

SPEAKER_02 45:34

No, I don't mean complaints per patients. I mean like by if it's controversial then. Colleagues, if colleagues are thinking, or you know, colleagues think everything, guys.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Colleagues think BDS is better than MBCHB's colleagues or colleagues.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

No, the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Then colleagues think colleagues have many thoughts. And I think I've always led my life in a way of you can lead or you can follow.

SPEAKER_05 45:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

And I think I've always embraced the non-traditional route of life, which is why probably my career choices have also been like, hmm, research, telehealth, and not the idea of UI G P and then you specialize it, and that's it.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Interesting. So t like I saw you on TikTok, you've got like quite a big following. I mean I was always scared of TikTok. I was telling you be before, and like I just worried that it would suck me in because that thing I heard you can you can be looking, planning for 10 minutes, and then next thing you there are three hours because it just keeps on feeding you what you want. And I didn't join TikTok until we started the podcast. Um because you know you need to be on all platforms. Yes, you do. Yeah. But uh how how do you are you cool with it? Are you happy with it?

SPEAKER_01 46:49

I'm not happy with the amount of hours I spend on Edge.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Yeah. But it does So you're not you're consuming, not just I consume.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

I'm not I j I don't just create. And I don't I feel like if I was just creating it would not be as easy uh because then you don't know the latest trends. You don't know what people are talking about.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

So it's like market research on the internet.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

It is market research, but a little bit on the far end. Yeah. You could probably tell it back a little bit. And like you won't know what people want to hear about if you are not on the platform.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Okay. So is that how it works? Like because I haven't done all those things. I see that you post like almost informational educational videos.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Yeah, but sometimes I'm just being silly, nonsense.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

Okay. And uh like it also works, I'm sure. It gets thousands of views and it do do you get patients from TikTok? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

And I always say my patients from TikTok are so wild. And I'm like, are they like me? I don't know, but they can be really wild. But I think TikTok is such an empower is a powerful tool. Um, maybe b m mostly because of that that same algorithm that pushes out the content you want to consume or the content you've been consuming. So it will give me the correct patient. It will give me the patient who wants to lose weight because that patient will already have been Googling GLP once. And that person would have consumed content of other people talking about GLP once, either how you get them or how they've been using them and how it has helped them. So by the time they come to my page, a lot of them have had some experience. I'm not the first person who's telling them about medical weight loss. I'm not the first person who's telling me about GLP. On the contrary, I'm peddling the good positive information and also trying to remove the myths from the misinformation and what is really what is it about.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

Yeah, because clinicians are often quite cynical or yeah, or cynical about patients who like Google and research and things, but patients are clued up.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

They're clued up. And if you're not as and if you don't know, um, I think recently I saw somebody with burns and they said I got it on TikTok. So then I was able to just go quickly and check, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is a person who's saying these things and it's and it's real. And people take their advice from TikTok. Whether it's a verified person who's giving the information or not, they're taking the information there.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

There's gonna be a lot of noise there and very f little signal because the professionals are quiet. Are quiet. So is that one of your goals to like increase the signal and decrease the noise? The noise, yes.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

That's great because you're in the space. I mean you're you're a medical professional and you're you know like a public figure now at the stage. So you can cross-pollinate that and and make it legitimate. Yes. Whereas everything else is is noise.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

Yes, it it is nice.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

But you also but uh you have to be responsible there also, right? Absolutely. Because you're a doctor, yes. They're gonna say see the doctor type. And whatever you say sometimes can go, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:47

Yes, sometimes and people love to misinterpret kids. They they love that and they love to hear what they want to hear.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

Yes. Because doctors can also sense information things. They well anyway.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

I don't want to say they do but yes, it's humans, right? And I think some people have really big platforms. Thank you for calling my platform big. I don't think it's very big. But I think people have big platforms, and we need to be very responsible with the information we share online.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

I wonder if there's ever is you think there's an association of like social media doctors? There should be something. Yes, there is.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Is that Dr. Matthew? You even know Dr. Matthew?

SPEAKER_02 50:23

Dr.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Matthew, that's more. No. Who? A person who came on TikTok said they were a doctor, and everybody believed them.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Yeah, well, it's not Lani. Who's Lani?

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Um, yes, Lani Matthew.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

Yes. The one that walked into Barra and then I know that, yeah, that guy.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

That guy. That guy built his following by saying he's a doctor.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

He's not a real doctor yet. Just if why? He's a dentor. No, yes. We're gonna get in trouble with all that people.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

I don't want to say he's he's like a con artist, but uh that has been allegedly. I will say allegedly because the cut cases are still on the code.

SPEAKER_03 50:57

Okay, so what happened? You he pretended on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Yes, he pretended people believed it. Yes, and he walked. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

That's stupid.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Because um also I tell my patients a lot, hey, verify. Which is why I'm like, yes, I'm Dr. Mimi Mukwe, but my full name is Mimiri Mukebo. This is my HP CSA number, this is my PHF number. Please go and verify me on another site. Don't just believe me. This is like a very, very big thing on my patient. Like, go verify. Don't just take everything I'm saying as it's. Go check your information and come and ask me. Um, so I'm those doctors or something. Go do your Google check, come back, let's talk after you've done your Google check so we can check what's myth, what's not, what's misinformation, what's real.

SPEAKER_03 51:35

So what were you saying about Matthew? Um Because he asked, like, is there a society to regulate?

SPEAKER_01 51:40

There isn't. There should be, but there isn't.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

I mean, not to regulate. What I mean is, you know, there's associations for everything, right? There's like private practice practitioners associations, there's aesthetics and this and that and other. I think one day there probably will be like a social media association where everybody gets together. You you know, all like-minded people where you all agree that social media has its benefits, but it also has its uh you know, its negatives. And then you all make sure that you do the right thing online.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

Maybe we have guidelines.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

South African social social media association.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

Maybe we're stick we can't.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

Because the only person who talks about it now and is the HPCSA, and all they talk about is we're gonna prosecute you if you say something, but but that's that's the regulator, right?

SPEAKER_02 52:24

And their job is to make sure that they're you know the public is pr protected and the professions are guided. But they should uh there must be. Maybe this is a we can think of something.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

We can think of something. I don't I wish you didn't say it on camera.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Yeah, no, it's fine. The idea is here HPCSA is gonna come in.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

We open an opening kids association.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

Yeah, and I don't I wonder, do they actually go on social media and check what people are doing? Who knows? Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

Have you heard sometimes to Bali recently? The government has taken on this agency where they're starting to regulate social media, or they have a department for social media, because all these external influences and digital nomads are coming in and like stuff and they're creating content and they're getting paid for it. But then nothing's actually going from a tax perspective. Okay. So now they're regulating it from that perspective.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

But you know, like in Australia now, there's a new law recently put out where if you're under 16, you can't go on social media.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

I I really support that. And when I see my patients come in and they're scrolling and they can't stop, but it's a consultation. It's still it's a virtual consultation, yes. But it's still etiquette. You should you should really not be on your phone. What should it do?

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Are they scrolling while they consult it?

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Yes. Wow. Not not a lot of that, but I've seen it. It happens, it happens, it does happen. I think it happens in real life as well. And sometimes you can't tell because you're in a screen. You can't tell if maybe they're just searching to show you something.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

You may be verifying your information on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

On TikTok. So is TikTok the only platform that you I'm on Instagram a little bit, but uh my Facebook doesn't work. I think Facebook is outdated. But that's just me.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

That's that's so funny, right? Because I put shorts of this podcast on all platforms Instagram, TikTok, uh, Twitter, and Facebook, right? And Facebook, we've got like some of the clips there, 250,000.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

So Facebook works for you guys.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

So it just depends. I think maybe the demographics, right? Yeah, are different.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

His shorts flew on Facebook.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Wait.

unknown 54:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

I forgot I'm not on Facebook anymore. Um, but I've never already posted on that.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

I thought you had to be on Facebook in order to have an Instagram account.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

No, no.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

No, you don't. But you should uh look into that.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

I must come back.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Because I was so surprised Facebook it was driving so many views to a lot of the short uh specific shorts. I guess it depends on the demographic. It depends on. Maybe the older gen are on Facebook, I think.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

The older gen are definitely on on Facebook, but a lot of my patients come from TikTok. A lot of my the page that's active, the one where you'll get like almost an instant reply or at least a day reply, definitely TikTok.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

And what's that page? Uh how's it?

SPEAKER_01 55:00

It's Dr. Mimi underscore Kweo. So D-R-M-I-M-I- underscore Kweo. M-U-K-K-H-M-U-K-W-E-V-H-O.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Oh, okay. The the H is after the V O. Yeah, M Kwe, yes, like that.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

That's the page where I post I even do lives on the where we're chatting about G L P wines where I'm like, guys, come let's let's talk about the your most banging questions on GLP ones. How do you get them? What are they, how much they cost? And the lives are really popular.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Really?

SPEAKER_01 55:32

They're more popular than my actual face. That's awkward.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

Should we chat about GLP ones quickly? No. Because it's not a medical point. We're talking about the person behind it. They must they must go there and find out. Find out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:44

How do you think they would want to click on this and be like, oh, we're going to get some free information. No, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

Oh, but I do a lot of the free information on my TikTok lives. I don't want to lie.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Um a lot of people, I don't want to say they call me a hidden gem, but I w I'm gonna go there because uh what I want to ask you is the lives, TikTok lives. Yeah. Apparently it's a it's a good thing to do if you want your TikTok page to grow. But isn't it scary? Like, is it not hard to do? They're not scandals, they're saying things and is a record. Well, I'm sure it's just like TikTok records it.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

You can also record it, but I generally don't record. But this is live. Yeah, they can record it.

SPEAKER_03 56:19

Yeah, I know. But what else? You can record it. What do you say?

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Somebody can screen record you.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

Like screen record you and then use that information against it.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But but but it has said many, many times.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

Too many, many times.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

But being live is not cool, man. I don't like even I would not want this podcast to be live because sometimes we edit things out, you know.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

I find I'm so awkward on camera. I do not want to lie. I'm very, very awkward on camera. When I'm live, it's easier when I'm interacting with people than when I just have to read something like that.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

So what did they come?

SPEAKER_01 56:47

They come on and then they Yeah, so I will host school hosting. So I will go on live and then most of my followers or even people that like are interested in my page will get like an invite. Okay. And then the people start coming in. And then my my prompt is always ask me questions, ask me anything. Ask me about HLP1, what is it, ask me about side effects. Usually most questions start about how much are they, what, how much do they cost and what are the side effects and are there any long-term side effects. That's usually the majority of our consultation.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

And then how many people like dial into this thing or dialogue?

SPEAKER_01 57:23

The lives, the lives are quite popular. I don't want to lie. It's anything from 50 people to 200 at a time. And remember that those people are there for like maybe five, ten minutes. And so sometimes I finish the end of the live and it's like it's one quite one key people that were on the live.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

Hectic, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

But I I do like long lives. I don't do short lives. My lives are always like 60 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 57:42

Do you prepare for them, like with notes and things? It's just off the cuff. You think we should do a live one day?

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Yes, defs.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

I was gonna get like maybe we must the three of you host us just before this episode drops.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

Yes, we can definitely.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

That'll be cool.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

My people always say I'm not doing lives because I'm currently doing like a postgraduate diploma. Oh guys, where did I do it?

SPEAKER_02 58:04

What are you doing any?

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Um postgraduate diploma in general practice management with FPD.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

What's FPD?

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Uh foundation of professional development.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

Yeah, so they they have a lot of good courses so now I'm enrolled there.

SPEAKER_02 58:18

And but isn't this gonna make your employer nervous now?

SPEAKER_01 58:21

Because clearly you're looking uh I mean like but I'm an independent contractor.

SPEAKER_05 58:28

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

I'm an independent contractor where I work, I do my things separate. So for them it's always just good PR. And when you develop yourself, it's always always better for yourself and pressures that you manage all the time. And uh I'm a good I feel like I love going into things, finding out more about stuff instead of just winging it like a lot of my colleagues will love to do it.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

But you know where I'm going with this because now this this Where are you going? It's basically you're training yourself to one day be the owner, to be the practice owner.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

Well, I do own my own practice as well that I do a lot of stuff at as well. So it's not like I only work for my employer. Uh right. And it's never been a secret. I've always owned my own practice ever since I started there. I have my own practice number and I view my own MPS guys just think. Somebody would be.

SPEAKER_02 59:17

Or do you control your hours?

SPEAKER_01 59:19

I try to keep my hours to a minimum, but it it can get quite busy.

SPEAKER_02 59:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

It it can get especially my I have an assistant now, and she's like, did you go live? I'll be like, yeah. She gets the savings live. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 59:33

You can see like real time.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Yes, you see real-time conveyance, especially after a live.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

So there is there are other things out there for doctors. Like if you're not getting that post somewhere, there's other things.

SPEAKER_01 59:46

And that is the other thing that I'm doing really greatly.

SPEAKER_03 59:48

But if yeah, if I can ask you, like, what's the regulation now? Like, let's just say if you thought about going overseas or whatever, can you still be consulting from overseas?

SPEAKER_01 59:57

The pro the the issue is not can you consult from overseas? Are you licensed in South Africa?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

So that that's all that is.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Are you seeing South African patients? Um, because if your script comes through, it's only going to be dispensed in a South African thingy. Because in essence, I think you're still practicing in South Africa because it's within South African regulations, because you're not seeing the patients of where you are unless you're licensed there as well. An interesting thing that pops up is when I get patients that are not in South Africa and that want to be treated by me. I'm like, I can't say you're in that. But if you're ever in South Africa.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

Okay, yeah. Yeah. Wow. What's 2026?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

It is 2026. Yeah. So when people still say, hi, telehealth, we are not sure. I think it's okay to not be sure. And I think it's okay to not partake in every single new thing that happens. But to hate on those who do, for me, that's that's the issue.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

And so okay, cool. So let's pivot now. You we've used that word twice now in this episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:54

Wait, you've also used the word cute three times, and I can't understand the context. What's that? Cute. Cute. You don't know what cute means. No, but uh I'm like trying to understand what you the first you said you're the the guy that inspired you had a cute practice. Then you said a cute kilometer for another unit of measurement, and then you said one other cute kilometers.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

Yeah, Drogotter, you obviously you are not on TikTok.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

Yeah. He's low-key, not on TikTok. Yeah, low-key. Low key hygi.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

Yeah, I don't know for like a day. I was like, nah, I can't do this. Why?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

It's like so I can't even explain. I can't explain why I use cute. Sometimes I use sanna when I'm talking. Sana is closer for child.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

But we use it as a temporary environment now.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

When I'm calling you dear. But that's not what the word happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

But it's like um there's some kids are calling like, okay, fine. My six-year-old is started saying bro, like real thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

Yes. My 11-year-old does it too. Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

I don't get annoyed. I don't get lies. I get annoyed. No, why why I thought about this is because you said you can call a 53-year-old son, right? Yes. Now, I know that some like some people will get offended if a little kid calls you bro or son or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

I get offended. Why? But I still I don't know. My daughter's like, yeah. I'm like, you can call your friend that bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

Bro ski. It's weird. Why do we why do we care? Like if they're calling bro, what do you think it's like they're disrespecting it?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:22

No, I think maybe the deeper context of what they're doing is they they're just using that language that they're up that they're absorbing from the environment and just like replicating They're not holding value to what it actually means, absolutely. But not unity.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

Yeah, because you want them to be they you want them to value you. Yes. Yeah, exactly, that's my point.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Okay, but it also for me like it comes for circle as well, because it's not, yeah, it's not uh it's it's not meant to be disrespectful. Um but some people will always uh my my my my professor would always say um uh but an offense is taken, never given.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:59

Oh that's nice, yeah. So that is so true.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

That is so true. Yeah, nobody ever sets out to offend anyone, but if you end up offended, you're like Which professor was this for me? This was a professor ex not expasta.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

Oh, those are wise, wise words. Offense is nice, but it's never given. Only taken.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:25

That's the the title of this episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:28

We always say that, but it never happens. Never happened. Yeah. I mean, so this is your first podcast, huh? Very first, yes. And would you do another one? Yeah. Based on this experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:38

Are you gonna invite me back or I become once?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

No, we know you must invite us on your one, it will do a live.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

Everybody keeps saying I must do a podcast, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

Yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

I don't have time at the moment. Capacity. But once the capacity does the capacity things, I'm actually actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

It's fun. It's fun to get to speak to different people. Well, it depends on what your podcast is about. Because some podcasts can just be you.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

Yeah. See, for me, that doesn't work at all. I always need to be interacting.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

Do you like people?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:09

I like people.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

That's a genuine question. It's not a trick question. Yeah, like as an anatomy.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

I think I generally do well in certain way there are other people. I I do. Uh, but I think it's definitely like the older I get, the more I'm like, oh, it's nice to be home. Hey.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

Yeah, I've always been like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

Me. I've I've actually I've really changed. I actually fear I have changed. I used to be I love, love, love. I think I'm an extrovert, but as time goes, maybe it's getting older. You're not that older, but it's getting older that I've found that the peace of being home alone.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

So you used to be a social butterfly.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:49

I am a social butterfly. Even now. But I find my battery runs out now. Maybe I'm just I don't know. I don't know why that happens, but it does. I'm like, I'm gonna skip the social engagement, skip this one, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

What sort of things do you go do you go to?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

Like it's a difficult one.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

Well, we were talking about it just now, and like you you dropped your kids off at a party. Yes. And in my mind, like parents drop their kids off at a party so they can go and draw. Like go shopping, watch a movie, does fun stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

Shopping here, you are on a podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:20

Yes, drop off my kids to go to a podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

This is more fun than shopping, please.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:23

It is, because then m no money is leaving my account.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:26

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

But honestly, when I'm out, I I enjoy festivals.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

You know, there's homecoming, there's luxurious marble. I really enjoy music festivals.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

Yeah, no, you're definitely still young then uh festivals, those things.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

Somebody said I'm too young too, I'm too old to to like Justin Bieber. I'm like, ooh, me.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Nah, nobody's too old to like Justin Bieber. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

I've got to a Justin Bieber concert. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:55

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

I I enjoy concerts a lot. And that's a lot of my social engagements. But also just Being around like other people. Um you know usually there's this things that they invite us to, doctors. I was at Skin Alliance a few weeks ago as well. So I also like like navigating, and I think there's another hospital um in Peter North that really invites us to a lot of um social settings as well, CPD points. I I attend that, but sometimes energy is just visible. And they're like, you I'm like, yes, me.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

Yeah, yeah. And most of your friends' doctors.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

Yes, a lot of my friends are doctors, but I do have a lot of non-doctor friends as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:33

Look at that non non doctor friends because a lot of us we met in old school.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:39

Yeah, very well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:40

Ah, no, I have a lot of doctors. I am a people I'm a people, I'm a people's person. Persons, people, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:46

But do you go home much?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:48

Like then the N1.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

N1 is like N3. It's dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:53

N1 is hectic. N1 is hectic.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

It's dangerous. So if I'm not driving, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

People make it at like four lanes, even though it's a two-lane.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

So I always try to like avoid high peak areas. Or if I am going like around peak traffic areas, like don't travel on the day before where you know that it's gonna pick. So like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:11

So but you still go home and visit and who's there?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:13

My parents, my siblings, yeah, my grandparents, my grandmother. Okay, my other grandparents are late. But my grandmother's there, my aunts, a lot of my family still lives in Venda. So when I go home, I do make it like a point and go sit. We actually had a bit of an not a disagreement because my grandmother is, I don't know if you've ever heard of Renemba people. They actually Jewish people.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

They actually have, you know, the Levi, the males of that tribe actually have very similar chromosomes to the Levi's themselves from the Jews. So my grandmother was actually making an example in December that nah I'm not one of them because my father is not Ren Emma. Oh, I forgot my grandmother. I was like, what's the fucking you to today? So sad out to my grandmother. You know, on New Year's, I'm going to my real people, to my father's people, because clearly I'm not always accepted yet. Okay, so you go home and you have a fight with the family.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:06

That's sounds normal.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

Yeah, and then you go to your other family and you're like, you sit there what they did to me. That doesn't do to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:13

Does the old man still like pastors preach?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

He's still working very, very time pressure. I wish they would both retire.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:20

But do you attend like his what do you call it? Sermons? Church. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

Sometimes especially when I'm home. He does online as well. Telling me telepastaring. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:30

He's big on Facebook.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:32

Um, his Facebook press, 5,000 people. Okay. Um, but I'm just there like.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:36

What's the page called?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Steven Mugweb, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

Yeah. Cool. Comments on my stuff on TikTok.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:43

We're like so proud of you, lovely, all that sort of stuff. Uncles. Yes, that we're having this chat with uh like a couple of friends, really. Yes, hashtag nice. I think I think uncles are cute on Facebook. I mean, they say, oh sometimes they even comment and talk to themselves in the open things.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:58

To themselves.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

Yeah. Yeah. But as long as they don't embarrass and say stupid things, because you know, you can get those uncles too.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

Yes. Fortunately, I don't have that type of uncles.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

Yes. So I think it's cute when the old timers that they're love you, proud of you, they'll put a sticker.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

Yes. And heart emoji and Good morning. And the long videos, those ones, the other ones.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:21

Okay, lovely, man. No, it's good that you go home, you see your parents are still doing their thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

They're still doing the thing. It's and it's sometimes it's so grounding to be home because then you can walk barefoot on like the ground. For me, that's like one thing. Literate I really enjoy. And like I you know how I said earlier that they they don't have a big place to plant stuff. My parents have a cute garden in the back, and I just like to sit there and like take content and like make everybody who's not home realize that I'm eating organic food.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:51

Have you been to Limbaugh? Yeah, yeah, recently. That's how I know the N1 that they make it falling in.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:55

What were you doing there?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:56

Uh we went to one of these reserves. I can't even remember, but it's such a I was like, Limpopo is beautiful. I remember telling Roton we're like, damn. It's it's super beautiful. Or you went for work? No, for we went to for a holiday. Really? Yeah, like two to I can't remember the place now. But it's like in La Palanes and everything. Or was it like Monos?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:16

Bella Bella. Yes. But just yeah, man. That's just the airman.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:20

Yeah. It's just a too far. No, it's a two-hour drive. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

That's like the beginning. That's like the beginning of the biggest. Start a pack. Yeah, startup. You must go deep within. Yeah. You haven't seen it. It's fine, you take a four by four.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:35

It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

Um you must go to Punta Maria once. No, me not Kruger. Oh, Pun what's Punta Maria? Yeah, Punta Maria is the like the road that I was telling you about, the one that I said does this.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:45

Casey Makubele was telling us about that. We had the CEO of the South African Dental Association. He's also from Limpopo. And I know that what's his name? Uh the late great Tito Mbo when you're from there. Yes, from that game. That guy is.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

So you see, you see, when you've been in Bella Billa, you've just started. Okay. Like Limpopo is so big to explore. I haven't even explored. You think you'd ever go back to live there. Maybe when I'm older, I'm just like I keep saying older or not, but yeah, when I'm older, maybe. Because life is quieter, it's slower, it's cleaner, the people smile more. Yeah, I said people smile here, but not until the auntie from next door comes to ask if you're stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:25

It's all relative, huh? Because now that I you mentioned the thing, I'm thinking about what I was gonna say earlier. Where I had a guy from London, our London office, who came to work in our Joburgh office uh at a law firm, right? And he was like blown away by how friendly everybody is in Joburg. Because he said, you know, in London people just walk. So it's all relatives.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

Everybody is what? Strike.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

Yeah, everybody's friendly. Drinking game. In Joburg.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:53

No, but that's the thing, it's all relative.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:55

For him, yeah. For him it was friendlier.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:57

Yeah. So that's why you're saying their home, everybody smiles, all relatives.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:02

Like everybody wants to know how you are, how you've been, how's your kids? Everybody wants to know where's your ex-husband. Everybody wants to know. It's community, right? It is very, very deep community. And maybe because the ties are so strong, like you know everybody you grew up with, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:17

That's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:18

It it's investment. Yeah, that's the thing for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

It's your community. It's my community. Is there anything we didn't talk about that you want to touch or not? No, no, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

We spoke too much.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:28

I had fun. I mean, I really enjoyed this. This was quick, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:32

Was it quick?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:33

It was quick.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

Yeah, I've never been accused of that in my whole life.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:37

Oh, yeah. For dentists, it's a compliment. Yeah. It was quick and I didn't feel anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:43

Okay, you don't know what this means now.

unknown 1:12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:45

Yeah, I know. I see the what does this mean? Stocket. Stocket, yes. Oh, okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:52

But we like we agree with you so much. Like, oh my gosh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:56

So my TikTok shows me this one page of um they say Gen Z, it's a Gen Z person. And she's always said clock it and um what's it? Ah She goes like that's like Gen Z uh lingo. Yes. So yeah, oh I'm gonna.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:11

So today I've told you so maybe if you've done you do feelings, yeah?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:14

Yeah. Do you?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:16

Kinda.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:17

And like veneers and stuff. And the patient comes back.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:21

Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:21

Comes back and they're very happy. And they go clock it. They're very happy with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:26

Very, very happy with it. Clock it, I'll probably just dismiss the patient.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:32

Clock it somewhere else. Thank you so much, Dr. Mimi. It's been great fun. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

I had a good time.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:42

Yeah, I know. I think we should.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:44

And we'll all give like free consultations.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

Yes, we do that. We do that. Yeah, a lot.