Why Did I Become A Doctor South Africa
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Why Did I Become A Doctor South Africa
She Turned Down Medicine to Become a Podiatrist | Dr Nikita Sahadew
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This episode is brought to you in partnership with MedicalBrief. Stay informed with trusted reporting, expert insights, and analysis that matters to healthcare professionals. From breaking news to in-depth features, MedicalBrief keeps you up to date with everything happening in healthcare. Subscribe free at https://bit.ly/3Pei7o1.
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Dr Nikita Sahadew got into medical school and turned it down. On the advice of her small-town GP in Verulam, she chose podiatry instead, a profession she says has only around 400 registered practitioners in South Africa, trained at the only university on the continent that offers the degree.
In this episode, she tells Yash and Yak how a teacher's daughter from Mountview Secondary ended up qualifying as one of only two podiatrists in her year, why her very first patient at Joburg Gen involved maggots, and how she built her practice, PodMed South Africa, from one patient in her first month. She talks about completing her PhD in diabetes while running a practice and raising two small children, her role as a podiatry representative on the HPCSA's Professional Board for Physiotherapy, Podiatry and Biokinetics*, and why she believes foot care is life-saving for diabetic patients.
Recorded before her PhD was finalised, this episode releases with Dr Sahadew newly entitled to the title. Congratulations, Doc.
Find her at PodMed South Africa on Instagram and TikTok.
*Note: At the time of recording, Dr Nikita Sahadew was the sole podiatry representative on the relevant HPCSA Professional Board. Since 1 August 2026, podiatry representation on the Board has expanded, and Dr Sahadew continues to serve as a podiatry representative.
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SPEAKER_04Enjoy the show. Is it yak? Is there any there's nothing unnecessary on the table besides that drop of water? We didn't put your yak our props.
SPEAKER_00What are your full names? I imagine it's not registered yak and yesh.
SPEAKER_01No, he's Yeshodan. Okay. And I'm Yakshan.
SPEAKER_00Oh, very cool. Yakshan. Yeshodan is beautiful. Like Yeshodah. I've never heard that before.
SPEAKER_02It's like the male version of gorgeous.
SPEAKER_00That is gorgeous.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_01And Nikita? Short for anything.
SPEAKER_00It is not. I like to tell my patients that I'm actually a Russian spy by night, but no.
SPEAKER_01La femme Nikita.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So although wait, wait, but now you guys are killing you guys are killing the content because I just doesn't want to ask you. Because I got my plan.
SPEAKER_00I know, I know, I know. You said it must throw naturally.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I know exactly.
SPEAKER_00So then that's what you said.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Maybe maybe maybe that's how we'll start the episode from there. But but you know the well Nikita, welcome, firstly.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02Miss Nikita Saadiu. Is it Mrs. or Miss? Mrs. Mrs.
SPEAKER_00Doctor, actually.
SPEAKER_02Is it? Okay, Doctor. Yes. Okay, perfect. I didn't even know that. That's cool. Dr. Sahadyu. Welcome. You know the law. I mean, have you- wait, firstly, are you old enough to know the song, Nikita?
SPEAKER_00Of course I am old enough to know the song, Nikita. Yes.
SPEAKER_02By Elton John, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02And you know the law behind that song.
SPEAKER_00I don't know the law behind the song.
SPEAKER_02And I could be getting this wrong. I forgot my iPad today, so I was gonna my grand master plan was to like educate me. What is uh what is what is But anyway, like Elton John wrote the song Nikita, right? Hey, Nikita is a cool and I was thinking of a totally different song.
SPEAKER_00It is it another song? This is the one I know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, in your little corner of the world. I think it's about a soldier, a Russian soldier.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02But you know that Nikita is is is uh a male name.
SPEAKER_00It is, it is in Russia, yes. So I actually do not m often, but once or twice have had someone come in expecting to see a strapping young man, yes.
SPEAKER_02Okay, because I would never I'd I'd never associated the name Nikita with a man until I read about the law behind that song. I don't know why how I even got into it. Oh yes, I I think because you know, Elton Johnny's gay, and so he left it ambiguous. I think in the music video it's a it's a it's a woman. Oh, plays.
SPEAKER_03I have not seen the music video.
SPEAKER_02But the ambiguity was on purpose. So yeah, welcome. Nikita Sahadiu. So that's why when Yak was saying off camera, but it we'll probably keep that on the episode now. Sure. About the Russian spy thing, it doesn't make sense because you're a woman. So you're a podiatrist.
SPEAKER_00I am.
SPEAKER_02Now are all podiatrists doctors?
SPEAKER_00They are not.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I got into research and I've just done my PhD.
SPEAKER_02But Okay, so that's South Africa, right? But in America and all this stuff?
SPEAKER_00In America there are doctors.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_02And do patients come to you and call you hey, hey doc? And then you're not sure. They do, they do. But you don't have to correct them because you are a doctor.
SPEAKER_00I suppose so, yes, yeah. But I just prefer being called Nikita, that's fine too.
SPEAKER_02Do patients actually like come to you and uh well, let me let me not project, right? Let me just say I would I would have thought a podiatrist is somebody you go to if you've been referred. Like you don't I don't I I I've never been growing up, I've never gone to a podiatrist. Yak, have you? Yeah, of course I have. But just generally, uh I've got my six-month podiatry check up. Yeah. Really? I'm into feet. Okay, really? No, I mean like seriously about uh and oh yeah, yeah, no feet jokes in this episode. Oh, please. Come on. Please I'll keep that in, but that's the last one. Okay. Seriously. Yeah, no, I did. I actually consulted a podiatrist.
SPEAKER_00When you were younger?
SPEAKER_01Um, I wouldn't say no. Maybe a few years ago. Okay. But there was nothing wrong. I just wanted to see like what a full company. So people do this?
SPEAKER_00People do this. Now it's a lot more common because people know a lot more about diabetes. It's part of like your discovery check. Um our our general practitioners are also more aware of why it's so important to take care of your feet.
SPEAKER_02So Okay. So can I get a free consult? Or care about?
SPEAKER_00Of course you can get a free counselor. Yes, but your shoes are terrible.
SPEAKER_02I've already said that those shoes are. Don't mention the brand name, but these are terrible. I did it on purpose because my master plan was to ask you, like ambush you, and then yak asked you before what's your what's your glove size? Give away the thing. But can I mean can we can you do it? Like can I Can I do what?
SPEAKER_00Can you check my can you do it for the case? Of course. You can check if I suppose why not?
SPEAKER_02Okay, let's pretend. Do I have to be here? Let's pretend. Let's pretend that I am one of those yaks that actually yak patients that come just for exploratory.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So it's very, very simple. We would do four checks. We check your skin. Well, firstly, we check if you have any pain. So the main complaint, right? You have sprains, strains, which has become so common now because we do paddle, everyone's doing CrossFit, everyone's doing HIRACs. So you're getting lots of that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01What percentage of patients you see come in with pre-existing issues?
SPEAKER_00So my PhD is in diabetes. So I will often see diabetic patients. And it's very important for a diabetic patient to have a check because 70% of all diabetics will have some foot problem. And 80% of those um ulcers that they might get can progress to um amputation.
SPEAKER_03Or be like preventative.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Control diabetes causes nothing. And that's the game. That's a gloves.
SPEAKER_02Okay, while you put you preparing for. Can you pull in this side maybe? Because I'm not sure. I don't want to mess up the main camera. Yeah, just swap around.
SPEAKER_00So so we're gonna get it.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna get sued. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, I have I have no consent. I'm gonna sue.
SPEAKER_02No, I'm giving you consent.
SPEAKER_00Giving me consent.
SPEAKER_02You guys are misusing my own. And I give you consent and I consent to putting this online.
SPEAKER_00But uh and and so you're putting your feet online.
SPEAKER_02And I'm doing this without an OnlyFans account.
SPEAKER_00And I cut my toenails today.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh on purpose because that was my grandpa. That's why he's wearing those chupples. That's why I I usually wear like I'll help her when I left the house this morning. She's like, yeah, you forgot your shoes. I was like, no, no, it's on purpose. And I put lotion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you put lotion. Well done.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, we're not getting my feet on camera. No, I just want to they'll they'll get the gist. Oh, yeah. I thought you're putting your feet on camera. Where do I put it?
SPEAKER_00You can put it on the chair. Okay. And I'll just stand up and check it out.
SPEAKER_01Do I take I'm gonna take both socks off, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, probably.
SPEAKER_01So what's gonna happen in the actual segment here when you are doing this? Are we just using one?
SPEAKER_02Well, to the listeners, you shoot into our YouTube channel if you can't um see things, obviously.
SPEAKER_01Okay, because I wanted to redirect that.
SPEAKER_02No, no, don't, don't. I don't want to get I really don't want my feet that much detail. Yeah, I mean I just want I want people to get the sense of what happened. So I come to you and I say, here's my feet, check them out.
SPEAKER_00Right. So if you have any kind of pain, that's the first thing we're gonna get to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But you usually will check for systems. So you're going to check your skin.
SPEAKER_02Check if that's that's looking fine.
SPEAKER_00You're gonna check your skin, right? You're gonna see if there's any fungal infections, if there are any uh itchy bits, warts, cons, calluses, that sort of things. You could also see for signs of poor distribution of pressure. So maybe you have a callus here.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like you do. Okay. You got that like little bulkiness. Yes. So that shows that when you walk, you put too much pressure on that area, you almost roll. And youth is on your side now, but God willing it won't always be. And that is where we are anticipating problems. Now, for a diabetic, that's very important.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because if I can zone in on an area that is problematic now, I can prevent that from ever becoming an ulcer.
SPEAKER_02And then what do you do?
SPEAKER_00Like you'll So we would redistribute the pressure, you would make your orthotics, we'd advise you on footwear, we would give you some diabetic foot care advice, always dry between your toes, as laborsome as it sounds, right?
SPEAKER_01You do that, yeah? Yes, every single day with a hairdryer. With a hairdryer. I got it.
SPEAKER_00You could totally use it with a hairdryer, yeah. Or a towel, but you know, not.
SPEAKER_02How's my feet otherwise? Okay. Big uh like a few.
SPEAKER_00Well, I don't have all my instruments here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't have all my instruments here.
SPEAKER_02So Did you notice?
SPEAKER_00I see, I see.
SPEAKER_02I had ankle surgery there.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02I've got a beauty spot here. Ish, I'm giving you so much personal information on that. So people actually come and say, just I just want to pedicule. Yeah, just check me out. And they come and say that I want a pedicure and things like that. Do you guys do all that stuff?
SPEAKER_00We don't. Yeah. We don't do that. Although there's uh in the old days, someone would call a cheropodist, would cut ingrown nails and corns and calluses, but that doesn't happen in South Africa anymore. We don't have cherrapodists.
SPEAKER_01What is a cheropidist?
SPEAKER_00So a cheropidist would only be someone who um Yeah, let us sit back in the in the in a channel.
SPEAKER_02Make sure the camera is fine.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_04I'll take gloves.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, it's got all the fancy gloves.
SPEAKER_00Very cool, very cool. And powder free, thank God.
SPEAKER_02It's nitrile. I'm allergic to latex. So I put all that lo-lotion my feet on purpose.
SPEAKER_00I'm so impressed.
SPEAKER_02Like uh do you get lots of men? Or is mostly women?
SPEAKER_00No, no, you get a lot of men. But often uh gentlemen will come in and say, I don't know why I'm here, my wife sent me here.
SPEAKER_02Okay. But that's that's the thing. Like that's my thinking. Like you only go to a podiatrist if somebody else refers you. Like you don't just go there preparatorily. And is it fun? Yeah. Okay, we've got well, thanks for indulging me and being such a good sport. I appreciate it. And yeah, you've got my consent. I'm gonna post it out. So how did you get it?
SPEAKER_00You saw how how much distance he put between your feet and then.
SPEAKER_02No, I don't. Well you do. No, I don't. Ever since childhood.
SPEAKER_00Is it really bad?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he's got that. It had like he had like a bunion since the time he was small. I don't know where he's got that from.
SPEAKER_01I just had one f toe. It was like in a it was misdirected. The one toe sleeps on the other toe. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. That doesn't sound within normal ranges. You should propagate that with that.
SPEAKER_01It's not normal, but it's not terrible. You see like his prejudice understanding of like what feet should be. However, I did have frostbite on my left foot uh three years ago. And it was expected that I would lose my big toe on the neighbor. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Do you get like foot type shape types and things? Yes.
SPEAKER_00Is that what they teach you when you I suppose uh it's it's a bit more complicated than that to put it in a box of foot type. But yes, sometimes for the benefit of explaining to a patient, we do use those sorts of terms. So you get like flat feet, high arched feet, charcoated foot.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um what's the ideal? Like what what's is there an ideal? Okay. All right. So I'm ideal. Uh how do you get it? How do you become a pedophile? Like what when you're a kid, no, let's take us back.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Where are you from?
SPEAKER_00I'm from Verlum. All right. In Durban. So I grew up there, went to school there.
SPEAKER_02Mountview. Yes. Okay, you went to Mount View.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm I'm from Tongat. My cousin is from Verlum. Oreo. And he went to Mount View, O'Reilly already. You don't know him.
SPEAKER_00I don't.
SPEAKER_02He wants to come on the show, we'll get him on also. Okay, Mount View, secondary. Yeah?
SPEAKER_00Mountview secondary. That's where I uh matriculated. And then I always felt like I wanted to do something medical. You know, you love biology, it seems like the natural, the natural route. But I kind of only knew the basics. You know, you could be a doctor, you can be a nurse, a lawyer, an engineer, that sort of thing. And then in our little town, there was uh our GP, and he said to me, My girl, you should consider podiatry. And the truth is I really didn't know what that was. But I was a very agreeable child. And uh I if the most respected man in town tells you to be something, you look into it, you know.
SPEAKER_01And at what age was this when we're like grade 11. Okay, where did he get that from? Like very specific.
SPEAKER_00As a as a GP, I imagine uh and in a small uh town in Verdlem, I'm sure he saw a lot of diabetic patients and he was sending them to a podiatrist, and at that time there were not very many. And so it seemed to him like a fantastic uh idea to get more podiatrists in. And they are actually on the roster, only 400 podiatrists in this country.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it is not a very common uh choice. Um and I did a little bit of research, and you know what? I just I just went with it. And he didn't he didn't say do medicine or what is Well, I did I applied for medicine and got into medicine, but he said, Why are you doing that? You should you should try something different, be a podiatrist. And I I I trusted him and I and I did it, and I've never looked back.
SPEAKER_02Wait, hold on. You so you applied for medicine. You got in and you said no.
SPEAKER_00And I said no, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Who does this?
SPEAKER_00Well, I I he made so many good points. There are very few podiatrists. It's something unusual. You've got to have a very strong stomach, which I do. You know, it doesn't it doesn't the feed thing doesn't bother me and you've And there was no other reason for you not doing medicine.
SPEAKER_02Can I ask you why you why would you ask that question? Because uh that's just my my mystery. That's just my that's how I was brought up. And like you if you apply for medicine, you get in. So it supersedes every other choice that I'm I'm using my own personal experience. I'm projecting again. But I'm just thinking, if you apply for medicine, that's like the pinnacle, right? You would think so, but So what made you not do medicine?
SPEAKER_00The doctor's advice. Really? Yeah, he said, look, you're you're a lady. What if one day you want to have a family? You know, uh this is a more uh easier career to do. Uh there are very few people. And uh I don't advocate for blindly following, yeah, but it really worked out for me. And and for now, I have wonderful uh flexibility with my calendar. It is unusual. Like I said, there are only four about 400 registered in this country. Um you see a whole range of things. The only downside at that point was that you don't get to be a doctor. But you know, I went into research and and I did my PhD, and um you're always a respectful distance away from your patient. You know, there's always a sort of like a meter between you at least.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're at the right end. You don't go at the full. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I don't feel like I don't feel like I'm I'm in someone's personal space, which I enjoy. And COVID, that was that was wonderful because I could still practice as as I saw fit. Um my hands are always busy and I love to feel useful. So it's very craft-like. You know, you're you're cutting callus. For me, it's very therapeutic. It's very interesting because you're always seeing something different.
SPEAKER_02Did you shadow anybody before you applied? Or you just I I did actually.
SPEAKER_00I did shadow someone.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Because I I still find it fascinating that uh it's sorry to like hop on the point, but like you get into medicine and I you you know, coming from those communities, we we know that like people think, yeah, you know, that's what you're doing. You'll be the most respect. And you even mentioned it. This guy was like the respected person in the community. Yeah. And then for you to get that opportunity And do something unusual. You're blocking the light, yeah, but I don't know. It's just a bit weird, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00May maybe it was fate. I don't know what to tell you. It is everything kind of worked that way, and that's that's that's the route I took.
SPEAKER_02And when you so what do your parents do?
SPEAKER_00My mum is was a a teacher. She did computers metric in uh I think.
SPEAKER_02Also in in Virilla.
SPEAKER_00She was in Phoenix. She taught in Phoenix. She was a teacher for 21 years, and my dad is a mechanic, but he started a plant hire business, which is was named Nikita's plant hire. And then so when you and that was after my other two siblings were born. So I'm I'm leaning towards I'm like the favorite.
SPEAKER_02So you don't know you're the first child. I the first, yeah, exactly. Your your siblings are both uh sisters or what?
SPEAKER_00I have a brother and a sister.
SPEAKER_02So when you tell your mechanic dad and your teacher mom, hey, I got into medicine, but I'm gonna do podiatry, how do they?
SPEAKER_00So they were very much part of the discussion. Oh so my mom went to chat to the doctor with me and he said, Oh, you know what, she should do podiatry. She'll be so successful there are not many podiatrists. And of course, for an Indian mom, that's all you want for your daughter to be successful. And I remember saying to my mom, yeah, but like money's not everything, you know. You really want to love what you do. Yeah. And she's like, girl. Girl, you're like, come on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So that's actually very cool that your parents they they made the another person that did have the inside part of the decision-making process.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Being the doctor. Who is the doctor? Who was who was it? You have do you have a name?
SPEAKER_00Uh yes, Dr. S. R. Pele.
SPEAKER_01Okay, cool. He's still alive and around and practicing.
SPEAKER_00He is, as I understand.
SPEAKER_02Well, shout out to Dr. Pulley for inspiring what we will unpack just now. And I'm sure he probably does it for like the greater community as well. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00He was a wonderful doctor, very respected. You know, in a small town, I suppose you have to do everything. Kind a little bit of everything.
SPEAKER_02And uh, and it's a d it's a dying thing, hey, the GP. We just had a we interviewed a GP from Stanerton last week who does everything, as you said, because it's a small town. Yeah. And that is a dying thing because everybody specializes into it. That makes sense. So you were were you so you were were you a nerdy bookworm kid growing up? Yes, alas, I was. Yeah. You didn't play sport and things like that. Not really. Yeah. So you're just straight A's from I I certainly tried. Yeah. Yeah. And where did you apply? You applied for for for medicine and got in where?
SPEAKER_00I think it was Virtz.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then uh as soon as podiatry came through, there's only one university that does it in the continent. What? And that's UJ.
SPEAKER_03Really?
SPEAKER_00And I was quite a sheltered child, so the idea of leaving home to study was a little bit daunting, but you know, ultimately it's growth.
SPEAKER_01So that's when was this? What year are we talking about?
SPEAKER_00You know, asking her lady her age. So there was no one. It's a very indelicate. I'm talking about Yeah, don't worry.
SPEAKER_02What we'll do is later on, I'll go to the HP CSS as well. I'll search for Nikita Sahari and I'll see when you got your degree. So it's fine.
SPEAKER_00No, no, it's okay, it's not you, I'll tell you. My first year was 2009.
SPEAKER_022009. Uh first year. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's cool. What was it like leaving Verulum? Was it the first time you left Verulum or to like I think so. Yeah. And you left and went to Job.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. It wasn't. I was a girl guide when I was very young. And uh, you know, like a Boy Scout?
SPEAKER_02Scout? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like a Boy Scout, and then the girl equivalent is a girl guide.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know the I've heard of the terms, but what are they what do you do like as a girl guide?
SPEAKER_00I suppose a whole lot of extracurricular things.
SPEAKER_02And outdoor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, outdoor, like camping.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but you were a girl guide. Let's be girl guide.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, like camping and uh you do I'm trying to think of my badges. All those you get these little uh patches.
SPEAKER_02In Verlum. You do all this in Verilum.
SPEAKER_00So there was there was was not one in Verlum. So my mom would take me to Armshlanger. Virginia, actually. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah. There was you like get stuff for tying knots and climbing and all that.
SPEAKER_00How are you so knowledgeable about this? Yeah, that right.
SPEAKER_02Why are you so knowledgeable? Anyway, uh but it's the first time you're leaving KZN and going to how ten, to live, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, to live, yeah. Because with the girl guides, you know, we would travel, you know, you go to England and that sort of places. Like big camps, yeah. But uh But to live, yeah. To live, yes.
SPEAKER_02And what was that like as a little what I'm guessing 17, 18 year old you're leaving home? It was I was woke up time, I'm sure. That must have been exciting. No, twenty ten was next the following year.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, yeah, twenty ten.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. It was uh it was difficult, of course, as as with anybody who has your parents take you and leave you at RES or something, or is it No. I first stayed with some family and then I met a friend of mine uh who studied podiatry and I bought it with her after that, her and her family.
SPEAKER_02Okay, okay, cool. So that's that's nice. You don't have to uh rough it out in in rares. Yeah, yeah. What's it like? How many years is is podiatry?
SPEAKER_00Typically it's a four-year degree.
SPEAKER_02That's long, eh?
SPEAKER_00It is long you pack a lot into the four years. So you have to do uh a thesis, you have to do hours like you know how you do normal hours for this procedure and that procedure, and you would do your internship worked into it. So you would do uh some hours at different hospitals serving in different uh wards. So casualty and derumatology, because you have to have a knowledge of all of those things.
SPEAKER_02Was there ever a moment where you were studying a student and you thought, what did I get myself into here? Or I should have done medicine or something like that. No.
SPEAKER_00Never.
SPEAKER_02Not really, never. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you know what they say? The key to happiness is not doing what you love, it's loving what you do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay, yeah, but that's a nice fluffy saying, but how do you in a utopian world of I think? Because you might end up hating. You you picked it, right? You shadowed a few people, Dr. Pulley said do this, it's a good idea, and then you left Verlum and went to Choberg and did it. There's always the chance that you're like, oh gosh, this is not for me. But you're so lucky because it wasn't, right? Did you have like these moments where you're like, I'm so glad I did this? Maybe the options. Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I did have moments where I'm like, I'm so good. It's so it was so interesting. And like I love that I can just talk to people. Because when you're that distance away, you you're getting stories, you're getting beautiful stories.
SPEAKER_02And how many people in your class as a podiatry what's it called? The school of podiatry, what is it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. School of podiatric medicine.
SPEAKER_01Podiatric medicine. Sounds cool. Yeah. And anatomy. Let's talk about that. No, wait, how many in the class?
SPEAKER_00Is it a big class or I think it was a different number for every year. Yeah. But initially we started with a big number. Like it was kind of like 40. And then second year. 40 is a big number. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You see, that's why I asked.
SPEAKER_00And that's for the entire continent, yeah? 40 people.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00And then second year, we were down to something like 20. And when I qualified, I was one of two that year.
SPEAKER_02God, what? One of two. Well, because people failed.
SPEAKER_00It was very difficult. Oh, I imagine I'm not sure if it is structured that way now, but it was very difficult. It packed a lot in a very short space of time.
SPEAKER_02So I'm glad I asked how many because if 40 is big for you, I mean, that's just giving perspective to people, right? Like in first year medicine dentistry, it's like hundred, a couple of hundred first years.
SPEAKER_00And you have more than one school.
SPEAKER_02Because there's so many, yeah. And even I thought dental school, I thought my class was small because we had like 40, 50. But 40, and then obviously all the lecturers know you by first name. Yes, they do. It's like school.
SPEAKER_00It's like school. Yeah, absolutely. It's like school. And you do dissection and because it was such a small number of pupils, uh, you would have to go to different departments because it almost like outsourced some of the modules. So we would go to med school, we'd go to like WITS for pathology.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And you'd go to the anatomy department for dissection.
SPEAKER_01Very cool, very cool. And the and speaking of anatomy, like you you gotta do full body anatomy?
SPEAKER_00No, we dissect hip down.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And do you have to book patients and stuff? You have to book patients.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you gotta see like a certain number of patients. Yeah. You have your little book and you know, every year you make sure you strike off and get all everything you need.
SPEAKER_02Um I'm just because I know about dentistry, but uh does that book have like certain procedures that you must do, certain number of them? Yes. What was like what is the one that everybody dreaded? What was the difficult one?
SPEAKER_00Uh injecting, I imagine. Because you're injecting into a so we do uh nail reconstructive surgery, and that I I imagine would have been the most daunting because you know you've got to book the theater and inject the patient without causing in like yeah, in the university's theater.
SPEAKER_02Cool. And do you still do those procedures now?
SPEAKER_00Yes. But now we do them in the chair. I do them quite often at practice.
SPEAKER_01Nail reconstructive surgery. What does that entail? Walk us through it?
SPEAKER_00So if someone has an ingrown and the side of the nail is impinged and cutting into the side, we would go down the side very delicately, remove the impinging piece and kill only the root of that piece, not the whole nail. Just the painful bit. And so your nail afterwards grows back narrower, but it's narrowed by the offending piece. And someone who isn't a podiatrist shouldn't notice that it was done.
SPEAKER_02And you do this yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yes, of course, yes.
SPEAKER_02Including the anesthetic, you gotta obviously see it. Yes, yeah. You gotta do the anesthetic. That is super cool, eh? Yeah. Can you do I mean I wouldn't want to inject myself anywhere. Have you had an ingrown yet? No.
SPEAKER_00It is painful.
SPEAKER_02Uh how do you so you'll know you've got an ingrown? That's what that was going to be my question.
SPEAKER_00How do you know you have an ingrone? Yeah, you'll know it's painful. It's painful. Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_02What is an ingrin in the first place?
SPEAKER_00It is a piece of nail that is abnormally lodged into your skin.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Is it big is is it because we cut out cut our nails properly? How do you cut what's is there a proper way to like clip the nails?
SPEAKER_00There is a proper way to cut clip your nails, yes. So obviously make sure everything is clean.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And follow the follow the shape of your your digit. So you're talking about your toe. You want to make it not extremely straight, but just slightly almost like oval E shape. Yeah. And you use a nail file to Nail file and everything.
SPEAKER_02This is heck is so much work.
SPEAKER_00It is a lot of work. It is a lot of work. It's difficult to. It's sort of like personal hygiene that we should have all learned.
SPEAKER_02We should have, but we don't get taught these things, right? No, we don't. It's like flossing for toes. That's what I'm saying. There you go. That's what we're gonna get to like brilliant. We we I and I know they won't admit this, but lots of dentists probably only really started flossing when they started when they learned about it. Yeah, sure. That makes sense. It's not like we're not, you know, speaking ill of our parents or whatever, but they didn't know better. You know what I mean? So there's a way to clip nails.
SPEAKER_00Maybe have you done a video on on like We've not done a video on how to normally clip your nails, no.
SPEAKER_02That's uh just a nice segue here. How I came across you is you ended up on my Instagram feed or TikTok, probably Instagram, because I'm only new to to TikTok um recently on. And then you've got like really cool videos, educational stuff and funny things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we like to think we're very funny.
SPEAKER_02The algorithm puts you on put you there some some reason. And what's it called? Pod PodMed. PodMed.
SPEAKER_00PodMed South Africa.
SPEAKER_02And we'll link to it and everything uh, you know, in the description of these videos and clips and stuff. Um but and I for fast forwarded so much, I don't want to, but what made you get into that? Like the Into social media. Social media, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh so it was my practice manager, Google, who you see on the channel a lot. Uh she said to me, you know, we should probably do some stuff on on TikTok. She's she mentioned TikTok.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I said, So, Google, nobody's that interested. No one's going to want feet on their feed, you know?
SPEAKER_01She said, Depends. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That is a whole nother thing.
SPEAKER_02But um, straying, but we'll we'll get to that. We'll get to it.
SPEAKER_00So she said she suggested it and I was like, she's like, what what harm will it do? Give it a shot. And in a year, we picked up about 35,000 followers on TikTok.
SPEAKER_02Because the content is funny and it's like relatable.
SPEAKER_00It's relatable, I suppose.
SPEAKER_02And I it's not unprofessional, just to make it clear. I mean my view anyway. Um and you're not like really exposing patients and things like that.
SPEAKER_00No, no. Um certainly not with anybody without anyone's permission.
SPEAKER_02But I'm guessing also that that would have, because by virtue of the fact that it just landed up randomly on my feet, and I I wasn't looking for a podiatrist at the time, because I have been to a podiatrist when I had my ankle issue. Maybe that's why, who knows? But I'm assuming that that would have brought you a lot more patience or cli what do you call it? Patience or patients? Patience, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um I suppose so. We do get patients coming in saying, Hey, I saw you on, I saw you on Instagram, I saw you on TikTok.
SPEAKER_03That's cool. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But a lot of patients, especially like this, come with word of mouth. You know, especially having someone look at your feet, for a lot of people, it's quite an intimate thing. It's not something you show people all the time. And so they want to make sure they're going to someone who's personally recommended, someone who they feel safe with.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so we get a lot of those sorts of recommendations.
SPEAKER_02I'm glad you mentioned that because it really is an invasive type of thing. It is, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You wouldn't think so.
SPEAKER_02And you'd think that I'm a like I'm also very self-conscious. I just have taught I've just told myself that look, dentists see mouths all the time, so they're used to stuff, lots of stuff, yeah. So you're a podiatrist, I feel comfortable to show it. But I like I know if I was a bit younger and not used to this kind of stuff that I do now, yeah. I would not want to show somebody my feet. Yes.
SPEAKER_00And shame, bless them. My patients often, my first-time patients will go, I'm so sorry, you know, I'm so sorry, I'm showing you my feet. And our motto is no maggots, no problem.
SPEAKER_01You can deal with it. Wow. So you have had maggots before. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Actually, that was my very first patient. My first patient, I went to Jobuk Gen. And you know, you are so green and enthusiastic. I'm going into the hospital for the first time. I eyed my lab coat the day before, put my badge, made sure it was straight. I was so, of course, green.
SPEAKER_03As a student, or is it like a pressure? As a student, as a student. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh I uh, you know, got there early, walked into Jobuk Gen, went into I didn't even know like, you know, the proper entrance. I walked into like the main entrance, and immediately, you know, like I on my way there, I'm like, oh, no one's gonna need a wheelchair, I'm gonna fix everything. And when I walk in, you are immediately humbled because there's someone coughing next to someone with a gunshot moon, next to, you know, children, and it's very overwhelming. And then you come down to earth, and I was like, oh, okay, so it's you know what? I'll just watch. No big deal. It's only my day one. And so I find my way to the clinic, you know, and in front of me is this like um somebody in a wheelchair and someone with a cast, and like as he's walking, it's like splashing, like splash, splash, splash. And I'm just like, okay. First day, I'm sure I'm just gonna watch. Find my way to the clinic and I say to the sister, hi sister, this is who I am, you know. Where do you want me? And she goes, Oh, yeah, here's your first patient file. And I was like, No ma'am. Yeah. I was like, No ma'am, like I'm I'm the student. And she's like, Yes, there's your first patient. And it was the guy in the cast.
SPEAKER_02It was the slosh. And what is it? Like, is it slushy because it's like uh necrotized or Yeah, it was infected.
SPEAKER_00So it looks almost like a dry, crusty roll.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And we had to use like a little machine to open it up, and as you open it up, you see the maggots.
SPEAKER_02That's a common thing, right? Maggots.
SPEAKER_00It's not it's not common. Yeah. It's certainly not uh not a good outcome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But that gentleman had an open wound and he washed it, obviously, or it got wet and infected, and you know, that that means you lose your leg.
SPEAKER_02So flies get in there and you don't feel it because it's infected, or you Well, you don't feel it because in that particular case he was diabetic. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And when you're diabetic, you have neuropathy. Right. And think of neuropathy like the signals are not going through properly, and you know, sometimes you feel numb, sometimes you feel uncontrollable pain. But more importantly, the the mechanism that shows you something is wrong is gone.
SPEAKER_01So Yeah. It's the same thing with the mouth. You know, if you've seen these videos with them like flies and maggots in the mouth.
SPEAKER_00In the mouth, I've not seen that.
SPEAKER_01And then the the one day it was it was a periodontist that posted about it and he was talking about a lack of sensation.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01Because these patients have such bad period, flies and they'll like get drunk and lie on the ground and then the flies are opportunists and they're gone.
SPEAKER_02So is this why podiatrists are so important for diabetics?
SPEAKER_00Very important for diabetics, yes.
SPEAKER_02Well why? Because you can like injure your foot and not know about it and then Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Even a uh basic fungal infection like athlete's foot, which many people have, can become a very dangerous thing. It can become cellulitis and osteomyelitis and gangrene. It's a very slippery slope.
SPEAKER_02I remember having athlete's foot as a kid when I played cricket. And what happened was it happened after I I I borrowed the the from a from a friend of mine, their shoes to use because I forgot my spikes at home. But that well, that's my excuse anyway. That's why I got it from somebody else. But is it like can you get it from other people? Yeah, contagious, like a period of it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it's it's this infection, of course it's contagious, yes.
SPEAKER_01So do you think his friend had had it first and then gave it to him, or is this because it's like, you know, HPV type vibe where it's just cross-contamination?
SPEAKER_00It's probably because your friend had the spore. Perhaps it didn't take onto his foot and he was unaware. We gave him the benefit of the doubt. It was unaware.
SPEAKER_02I could just be making this up. I could just be making this up and blaming some random friend. Yeah, because he gave me shuffle. I think it's to the friend.
SPEAKER_00So you like incubated it nicely and then you gave it back to the phone. Is he alive?
SPEAKER_02What do you see? What's what do you see like on a daily basis?
SPEAKER_00Such a mix of things. Yeah. We uh and it's a lot of season dependent. So before school, we see a lot of flat feet. Okay. Um, of course, parents.
SPEAKER_04Why before school?
SPEAKER_00Well, parents want to do all the checks before school, before they buy school shoes. So we check on a digital gait analysis. Is the child walking the way they should? Do they have intowing gait, um, outtowing gait, flat foot, high arched feet? And if you can fix and you can fix that when they're young, it will make them a better athlete. It will make sure that they're not their posture is better.
SPEAKER_01That's actually so cool because I mean parents are taking the initiative to get something done like prophylactic. I was bandy like half my life, probably still am.
SPEAKER_02That's because your parents weren't like train were getting you ready to become an athlete.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm dissociating that com from that comment. It's got nothing to do with what I just said. But no one back then would know like there's something that is wrong with school and take, they just yeah, just exercise it out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, stretch it out or something, that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_02I could have told you there was something wrong, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so that's the it's seasonal. This is very interesting. I find all this fascinating. So, beginning of the year, school year, people are coming with the school kids because they want to they want to buy school shoes and also all that.
SPEAKER_00In winter you'll have like chill blanes, which is like a reduced form of uh frostbite. Yeah, especially here in Joburg. So you have uh vasospasm, the blood vessels on the digits, because they are now micro vessels and they're very far away from the heart, uh, those go into spasm, and uh you get like really cold blue, red, white toes uh that hurt and burn when you get into the shower. It can be very, very painful and very itchy. So we deal with a lot of that.
SPEAKER_02It's called chill blades, but not because it's chill blanes. Chill blades. It's named after a person, right? It's not because it's chilly. It sounds it's a chill.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I don't know if it's uh that's a fantastic.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but is it a capital C?
SPEAKER_00Maybe No, it's not a capital C.
SPEAKER_02It's a chill C or Blains.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, blanes. Chill blanes.
SPEAKER_02Not like blades.
SPEAKER_00Or actually Reynolds syndrome is when it's it becomes very chronic, is Raynard syndrome.
SPEAKER_02Reynolds syndrome.
SPEAKER_00And I imagine that's named after somebody.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, you don't get it after this rain. And in COVID, uh it was very similar to COVID toes. I don't know if you remember COVID toes.
SPEAKER_03What's COVID toe?
SPEAKER_00It's very similar where people were getting like really cold vasospasms on their toes because there was some sort of uh vascular issue there. And uh we would treat it with things like laser therapy, red light therapy, um anticoagulants, local, localized anticoagulants that we'd have to make at a lab.
SPEAKER_01So how would you treat the chill blane? Have you ever treated frostbite?
SPEAKER_00I have not had the pleasure of treating frostbite, but chill blades are not a mild form of that. So we like I said, we do red light therapy laser, which works fantastic. We do um a lab-made anticoagulant that we use. Uh we advise on footwear, on exercises.
SPEAKER_02Are you are you allowed to like uh when you say advise on footwear? Because people, you know, there's there's there's one brand of toothpaste that says nine out of ten just recommend XYZ.
SPEAKER_00Is there like the equivalent in the podiatry world for footwear or I don't think so, but if I were to guess, it would probably be like the die-hard, like ASICs and New Balance.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I can't imagine what shoes you're wearing.
SPEAKER_00So these are ons.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But this is a casual shoe.
SPEAKER_02And not sponsored, huh?
SPEAKER_00No, not sponsored. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Not yet. But do the companies approach podiatrists and say things.
SPEAKER_00No, we've not been approached, but you uh but still I imagine you want to have an unbiased review of shoes.
SPEAKER_02And any any because you alluded to yak when I said earlier he strayed when he was talking about the feet thing. Do you get people come with like weird requests and things like that, or is that just social media?
SPEAKER_00No, no, we get we get people.
SPEAKER_02Like what?
SPEAKER_00Well, people would ask us for uh foot foot pictures sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Like so somebody comes to you and says you've got pictures of feet.
SPEAKER_00No, no, not personally. Nobody would come to us personally, but online.
SPEAKER_02They think you'd have a bank.
SPEAKER_00They think maybe I have a bank, perhaps. Yeah, maybe they think so. And they say, Oh, you know, I'm so interested. And we'll say, Oh, how can we help you, sir? And they will say, And it's always a man, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's always a man. And they but they pretend that they're very interested in in Well, they won't pretend.
SPEAKER_00They're very forthcoming about it. Uh do you have I'm very interested in pictures of feet. And we will politely say, I'm so sorry, sir, that's not what we do. We're actually medical practitioners.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that is crazy because you you would think they would be smarter than actually just going to podiatrist and be like, I can reaccess you all.
SPEAKER_02And do they give offer money and stuff?
SPEAKER_00Uh we've never gotten so far. You know, they as soon as we realize that that's it. We've turned them away. Like it's the wrong place, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That is crazy that they've got the audacity to be upfront about it. I thought maybe they're gonna pretend and say, yeah, we're very interested in podiatry. You know what a shadow and this is. But you never know.
SPEAKER_00Sounds like you've thought of this angle.
SPEAKER_02No, no, I'm not sure. I mean, come on. Like you think you have smarter pearls in the world to get what they want. Alas. Okay, so that's online. Yeah, there i there's freaks online and creeps online. But you nothing like weird and wonderful in in real life, obviously.
SPEAKER_00No, no one's ever asked me for it.
SPEAKER_02What was podiatry school like? So it was four years of bliss for you. Did you have fun?
SPEAKER_00No, it was very intense, very, very intense. And that's why the there were so few people moving forward every year. It was very intense. Like I said, lots of dissection, lots of uh you got your book with all the procedures you needed to do, how many patients you needed to see, how many hours you needed to serve, your dissertation needed to be done.
SPEAKER_02And what happens after you qualify? After four years?
SPEAKER_00Well, you are an independent practitioner. So no comms and you go straight. Yeah, because you've you've done it already.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00So you would go into the working world. Um some some podiatrists do get absorbed by the public health sector, but they would have had to have a pre-existing contract with them.
SPEAKER_02Uh like a bursary or something like that. In in podiatry school, because uh you mentioned it's the only one on the continent, were there lots of foreigners in class or mostly South Africa?
SPEAKER_00There were a few foreigners, yes.
SPEAKER_02From all over Africa?
SPEAKER_00From all over Africa, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's so cool, man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was very cool.
SPEAKER_02So after you get into independent practice, then you're looking for a job, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or you're setting up your own practice.
SPEAKER_02So what do you do?
SPEAKER_00I went um I went back home to Durban.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I uh contacted some podiat the the actual the podiatrist that the GP all those years back mentioned to me, introduced myself, and she was wonderful. Uh she invited me over and uh to the job. No, no, she was in Musgrave.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh to to look at her practice. I spent a little while shadowing and then she offered me uh a job.
SPEAKER_02Oh nice. So it I mean it it there was space for more, you know how yes, there was a at that time space for for a lot more.
SPEAKER_00Now we have a lot more podiatrists, like in Durban and Joburg, than there were back then. Yeah. Uh but it was an amazing learning opportunity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's 2013 around then, yeah. Yeah, because I can imagine if there's there's so few graduates coming out, that's like patient podiatrist ratio is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Hectic.
SPEAKER_00But like you said, not many people know about it.
SPEAKER_01So you know, but we are like But it's still necessary. It still has to be done, especially with diabetes and in hospital care, I would think. They're not going to just outsource that job to some random GP or do they, you'd think, if it's not available.
SPEAKER_00It is necessary. You know, even in the public sector, sometimes a nurse has to do a screening. But it is always better for a podiatrist to do it. And also if you think about it from a medical aid perspective, if they which Discovery is now doing, very recently we've seen that Discovery pops up on the app and says, as a diabetic, hey, you need to uh go do your screening for this many miles, you know, as an incentive. Because if you as a diabetic go and have your foot seen by a podiatrist, it's much more likely you'll be a cheaper client. Okay. Because you'll have less complications. We'll solve the problem before we get to it. Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Preventative care. Preventative, yeah. So it's cost saving in the long run. Yes. I I love how Discovery has done this stuff. Because of them, I've actually got a GP. I never had a GP. I've been living in Jobur for years, and only now because they made it an incentive to get a GP. And it's such a good thing to have a GP.
SPEAKER_00It's great.
SPEAKER_02I'm so glad that I've done it. So it's cool that you mentioned. And if they pick up that you're diabetic, hey, maybe go and see a podiatrist. Yes, yeah. In your best interest. Okay. So Verulum, Joburg, Musgrave.
SPEAKER_00Must grave back home. And then when I was in Musgrave, I started doing my master's in medicine.
SPEAKER_02Why do you do this now?
SPEAKER_00Why did I do it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I like to learn. Learning is is important. And now I'm seeing that even like with the CPD structure, it's so important to be a competent practitioner. You must be uh ahead of what's going out there.
SPEAKER_02So you just did it to upscale yourself. It's not like you had some other.
SPEAKER_00I was interested, of course, in diabetes and I had a an amazing uh supervisor, and she had never had a podiatrist before. And and that has happened a lot where people are like, oh podiatrist, this is new because there's so few of us.
SPEAKER_02Explain that. So you you you do your master's in medicine at where?
SPEAKER_00At uh UKZN.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and then the supervisor is what? Is uh what is a researcher. Researcher, yeah, yeah. Okay, so you're not sure. She's a researcher.
SPEAKER_00And and uh there isn't well then, and certainly at UKZN, there was no PhD in or master's in podiatry.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And now I think UJ does have one, a master's in podiatry, but it is research-based. So you're gonna have to pick a topic that's that is within your scope of practice.
SPEAKER_02So it's called an MMED. It's an MMED. It's an MMED, yeah. And then you you do an MMED in what?
SPEAKER_00In the Well, they didn't there wasn't a M uh MMED in podiatry, so I had to do an MME in medicine.
SPEAKER_02And then what do you what's your research about in the foot or specific to the foot or it it was not.
SPEAKER_00It was actually a full diabetic scope of KZN at the time. And then because it was, I suppose, new, I got a golden key award for that. And they said to me, Why don't you continue? Why don't you do your PhD? And it took me many years to do my PhD.
SPEAKER_02So you did your PhD, and how's that? Is it we had a with two weeks ago, uh David, I mean Daniel, um and you know, PhD apparently changes your life, like it's turns your life upside down.
SPEAKER_00It transforms your life. When I first started, like when I was doing my master's, there was no like you were saying AI. I didn't even use a program to do my referencing. I was like, I had a page on the side and I was doing my research and I had a whole thick stack of articles. Yeah. And like, uh, you know, reference one, it there was reference one, and you know, kind of doing it like that. And by the time I had finished um my PhD, everything was so automated. You know, you got an EndNode program, and now AI had come into the picture. So it was uh very interesting to witness the to work within that decision.
SPEAKER_01And what was your PhD topic?
SPEAKER_00It was a diabetic profile of uh four provinces.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or at least you could do it in something very specific to what you were doing. But are you working at the same time?
SPEAKER_00I was working and I had two children at the same time.
SPEAKER_02I wanted to get into that.
SPEAKER_00So how do you like it was it was intense and that's why I suppose it took me so long. It's because life gets in the way sometimes. Uh not in the way, life happens at the same time. And uh but i having children is a great motivation to say, uh, I want to show them that I can I can do this.
SPEAKER_02And you're running private practice, too.
SPEAKER_00And I'm running private practice, yes.
SPEAKER_02When do you end up in Joburg? You are in Joburg, right?
SPEAKER_00No, I am in Joburg, yes.
SPEAKER_02How does that happen? Like so Muscle, so you do the masters and you do the PhD, that's all in KZN.
SPEAKER_00Actually, no, I did my master's in in Durban.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh uh I got married and my husband works here.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00So I don't advocate for following a man, but it worked out for me, so I'm here.
SPEAKER_02Oh, so you came here and then you did your PhD via KZN, but for the yeah. Yes, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00So because it's research, you can. You know, you go down for meetings every now and again, but everything's pretty electronic.
SPEAKER_02Is he in healthcare also?
SPEAKER_00He's not, he's in finance. Although I get asked that question a lot by the aunties.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I'm like an auntie. I love that. Uh okay. You at least you got a man in finance. I mean you knew where to go. Yeah. We'll get him on the show. Um So you leave Moscow, right? Because there you're an employee.
SPEAKER_00There I'm an employee, and then I took the uh the risk and said, I'll open my own practice. Yeah, it's a of course it's a risk for anybody, any profession, any independent practitioner. It's a big risk. It's opening your own business. And just because you are a competent practitioner does not necessarily make you a competent business owner. So you learn it's trial by fire.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. How was that like so you you open up where and and I open up in a center.
SPEAKER_00To call Bluebird.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yeah. Bluebird is there by Morris.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, off college, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Are you still there?
SPEAKER_00I am still there. And we're actually expanding, so we're moving into our like own space within Bluebird.
SPEAKER_02When did you open up there?
SPEAKER_00About eight, eight years ago.
SPEAKER_02That's a long time. And was it when you start, because I want to get into the details of this because a lot of people probably don't think about this when they see successful practice owners and things, right? When you start, surely there's zero patients.
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely there's zero patients.
SPEAKER_02And then do you sit sometimes and just hope or how does it how do you get it going?
SPEAKER_00Well, for me, thank goodness I also had the research at the time. So a lot of the time when I was not busy with patients, I was just doing research, research, which is fantastic. But you network, you let GPs know I'm here, this is what I do. I thank goodness at that point I had my masters behind me. I did come from practicing and I had learnt a lot. And so I knew exactly who to contact, you know. Endocronologists, the GPs. I was I am actually in a center where there are GPs. So you go introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_02Um you've got to Google Ads. Connect, right? You've got to connect. And advertise. Yeah, people don't think about that. And you you mentioned it it was a blessing almost sometimes when it's quiet, so you can work on your Yeah. But that say that to a person who who relies on that as their income only.
SPEAKER_00My first month I had one patient.
SPEAKER_02Crazy, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. One patient only.
SPEAKER_02And then obviously you being supported by your your better half your other half and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_00Well, you I had remembered had an uh a job before. So you have to have a nest egg, you have to have a saving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You must make sure that you've got four months' rent or something.
SPEAKER_02So there was some thing.
SPEAKER_00And you don't take a salary for like how many years? I mean, you don't take a salary for a year or so. Yeah, you you won't take a salary.
SPEAKER_01And what when you first started there, like what percentage of patients you were seeing was from a referral basis? How important? My my actual question is how important do you think like creating those networks of people that refer to you was relevant to like having a successful practice?
SPEAKER_00I think it is very important. Even now, when because you never can know everything. Even now, when I see a patient and now we're moving a bit more into people coming to ask me up for surgery-based questions, I will I will take make the effort and contact the surgeon and say, Hi, this is who I am. I have had this question from a patient. Do I refer to you? Don't I refer to you? What are the questions? And to the credit, our community is so amazing. Nobody would ever say, I don't want to share my information with you. People are like, yes, okay, this is how you do it, this is what you do.
SPEAKER_02Which community is this? So you just I mean, doctors in general, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like your network, especially your diabetic network. Uh everyone is so focused on their patients, on the cause, because we know that the letting our patients, letting the ball drop, the price is huge.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell But that is so good to hear that it's a collaborative community. Because you don't always hear that in healthcare here. Uh you know, especially in private practice, which is uh fascinating to hear from you. So are Musgrave patients any different to Yes. Yeah? It's Melrose Archives. Certainly. Oh, it's Melrose Arch. I mean, this is Melbourne. But Musgrave is known as like, you know, we we we we used to call them when we were in the Santa school. We used to call them like even the Musgrave mummies and this and that.
SPEAKER_00Oh no, I didn't I didn't see those.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, they were all very wholesome, wonderful different. Very different, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And very different. So you have to adapt to that also, huh? Or not really. Or you just get used to it. Are you a people's person?
SPEAKER_00I do. I am. I love talking to people. So it was so interesting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was very, very interesting. I was able to meet different kinds of people, but like you wouldn't get as many, for example, parents coming in with their kids wanting to make them the best uh sports men know. You wouldn't get that there in the world. You wouldn't get that in Musgrave. No, you'd see mostly diabetic patients, uh, corns, calluses. Uh yeah, that I think that's what we saw. We did see some biomechanics, but that really opened up for me when I was here.
SPEAKER_02But there really is a difference like geographical geography makes a difference, right?
SPEAKER_00To like community and I think the community that you serve. Yes, the community that you serve.
SPEAKER_02Especially because you guys have wanderers like down the road from there. We do, we do.
SPEAKER_00But we have a few podiatrists within the area as well.
SPEAKER_02That's what I wanted to get into. And that's why I found it fascinating you mentioning the whole um collaborative community, because you know, if there's lots of podiatrists in one area, one might also think that, okay, if they see this new person coming in now from Muscle, okay, that's another ininverted commerce competitor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So what I have found, especially now that I'm with the HPCSA and we do have to talk to our group of podiatrists, is that everybody is so because we're a small group, everybody is so open to learning. I I will refer to a podiatrist perhaps that knows more about something else. Like uh there are specialist dance podiatrists once I referred to them because I had a ballerina and that's so cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's so cool.
SPEAKER_00So you have that. And a lot of patients will refer to me because you know, we do laser and a little bit more aesthetics now. We're moving into that. And a lot of children.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_00And also having children gives you insight into all those things. Can relate. Yeah, yeah. So I'm seeing a lot more. Now I'm looking at my kids' feet all the time. Okay. You know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and we're proud because we've got a six-year-old and we're really we we're good with the oral hygiene, you know? Yes, of course. Better than what we were, like for ourselves.
SPEAKER_00Makes sense.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, it's cool. And having kids really does change your perspective on things for me especially, uh, because I I I'm so much more tolerant of other people with kids. Yeah. Like when I was, yeah, probably when I was younger, if I'd see a a young kid in like a public space misbehaving and I'd look at the parent and say, that parent, just not doing anything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And now you know that parent is just surviving.
SPEAKER_02That too, but also like I don't want to be that overly critical parent. You've got to let the kid be a kid, you know what I mean? Helicopter parent. Yeah, not even helicopter, but like, don't do that because then you your self-esteem goes down. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Because you're telling the child that they're more worried about what everybody else thinks instead of this amazing cool spider that I see on the ground, and now I'm curious about it. So you're squashing that curiosity.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. So how many podiatrists did you mention practicing or registered in the countries?
SPEAKER_00I know that there are about 400 registered.
SPEAKER_02It's crazy, eh? Because you why I thought about it is again, you said it's a small community. When did you finish? When did you become doctor, uh, Nikita?
SPEAKER_00Uh well, actually, my PhD is submitted. Yeah. So all of my boards are blocked out with the doctor. But I'm going to, hopefully, God believe, in a month.
SPEAKER_02In a month, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I'll be I've submitted and everything's done.
SPEAKER_02So that's so cool. Because by the time this episode gets published, because we've got a bit of a cue, by then we'll probably be able to officially call it Dr. Nikita.
SPEAKER_00That'd be great. But I I I'm also stickler for the rules. So you've got to register it. Yeah, yeah, you've got to register with HBCSA. So we're making sure like all that works.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And speaking of stick, you mentioned um you're part of the stickler. Yeah. Well, stick. Yeah. Um HBCSA. That's the real stick. Yeah. Um what's your role? What's your portfolio there with them?
SPEAKER_00Uh so I serve on the board uh of podiatry, biomechanics, and physiotherapy. I am uh as a as it stands, the sole podiatry representative, and we deal with all sorts of things, educational issues, complaints, uh registration issues.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell They just recently I mean you you started your term probably now, right? Yeah, yeah, this yeah. This year, it's a the new term for five-year terms, yeah. Yeah, I applied. I didn't even get a callback. Yeah. Maybe if we want you to be on the board. I applied for the yeah, to be on it. Yeah. Um it's a rigorous process and huge uh numbers of applicant applications. So congratulations to you for getting one. That's a real um important position. What made you decide that you want to get on?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think there's always a part where you you for me, it's always I'm I must learn. And governance is something new. It's important to learn about it and uh how things go, what are the rules? We're in such a new exciting space with things like apps like Heidi, uh, social media. So for myself, I wanted to know more. Um I also always, at the back of my mind, always want to be a more competent practitioner and being part of governance is important. And initially I thought to myself, well, um, you know, maybe I'll have to pull a lot of weights. Uh, they're not a lot of podiatrists. But after going for my inauguration and meeting all the people, I have to say they the group of people they select are such motivated. Uh they just want to do good and it it just warms your heart.
SPEAKER_02That's so that's awesome. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you just know as a practitioner, the people there working on the HPCSA have the best intentions. They are they are they do wonderful work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I I just love that and even today's podcast is another example. I love that you're spreading awareness about the profession, and that's ultimately what you want, right? Patients need to be aware of these things so that they know what their options are and they can decide. Um okay, so cool. You've just started, you've got a five-year term with them that's gonna take you to to 2013.
SPEAKER_00Let's hope I don't lose my enthusiasm.
SPEAKER_02No, please, and you don't sound like you will. And anyway, they'll keep you on anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um What do you do for for f for fun besides podiatry?
SPEAKER_00Like I love to read.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But you know, when you have kids, it's not a lot of uh free time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But how old are your kids? Uh two and three.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So um this year is the first year after a very long time that I am not PhDing or postpartum or pregnant or back to normal now. Like I feel like a human.
SPEAKER_02Your husband must be so relieved.
SPEAKER_00You would think so. And then I said, I said, this year, I'm gonna do high rocks.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. So now that is my two and three-year-old, that sounds like the most involved age you have to be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you have to be, but you know, it's important also to make time for yourself. And especially having a daughter now, I see how they watch you so closely. Like I was looking at a video that my coach took of my form of pushing the the sled pull, you know, uh the sled push, right? And you know, I'm looking at it and she looks at it, and before I know it, she's pushing the bench from this side of the room to that side of the room. And it's so important. Do you show them that uh mommy's strong too?
SPEAKER_02I saw you posted that that like recently about you pushing a thing. What is that about now?
SPEAKER_00That's part of the hierarchs training. You've got to it's it's these functional exercises.
SPEAKER_02What's this hierarchy about? What's it for? To be fit. Is it for the points?
SPEAKER_00And I think also you have to know, you have to know about yourself. It's important to be fit, it's important for life. Uh, but I work better when I have a goal on something. So it if I just go to the gym and I'm training, I might not, I I know myself, I won't have the motivation if I'm not working towards a goal. And so this is a goal to which I can work towards. And my brother is uh has always been an athlete his entire life, and he is amazing, and he does these hier-rux uh warrior races, competitions, and I I love supporting him, always have. And uh and my sister's also, you know, very active.
SPEAKER_02My husband are they in healthcare, your sibling?
SPEAKER_00No, no. My brother is uh in the business with my mom and my dad, and my sister is um a management consultant.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay. So what do you think about people who say like hierarchies is just uh evolution of CrossFit?
SPEAKER_00It is. Yeah, that's sound yeah, it is. I mean, I'm only new into it right now. I don't imagine I'm going to be getting a fantastic time. I would just like to participate.
SPEAKER_02Are you like a fitness freak type? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_00But it is important to push yourself, always to push yourself.
SPEAKER_02Why?
SPEAKER_00So you can better yourself. Always. And I feel that like I think.
SPEAKER_02Can't you just be best and just be happy?
SPEAKER_00Oh, how boring.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04No.
SPEAKER_02I uh I'm asking this question. I know you yeah. Fascinating, man. So what's next besides are you what what's the plans? HPCSA, you've done that, you're on that. Are you gonna do some other stuff or enjoy life now?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I suppose and just enjoy life now and uh and the practice?
SPEAKER_01Like do you have other what, like locums or what associates in there?
SPEAKER_00When I was pregnant, I did have a locum. But I've learned also, and you guys will know this as well, is that when a patient comes often they want to see you. You know, so it's it's a personal a personal thing that they want. So uh no, I don't imagine that we'll have a locum, but I am looking into different technologies, uh you know, trying to grow the practice.
SPEAKER_03You know.
SPEAKER_00Uh but I have no uh for now, just doing being the best at what we are right now.
SPEAKER_02You wanted to ask us questions off camera.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I just thought like this is such a beautiful space, and why would you start a podcast? I'm so uh intrigued.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00What what is the payoff?
SPEAKER_02There's no well, there's literally no payoff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But one of the big payoffs for me personally is getting to speak to people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's okay.
SPEAKER_02You know, it's fascinating that somebody from a s from a small Indian community applied for medicine, got in and then just said, I'm gonna do podiatry. To me, that's fascinating. Because it doesn't happen often. I don't I don't believe it does. Um yeah, I mean, at the podcast, that's one of the biggest payoffs. We've had guests where we've recorded and then afterwards they decide they don't want to publish.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02And to me to me, that's perfectly fine because I still had the privilege of speaking to somebody for a couple of hours and learning about their life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So it's very enriching.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's really cool and to see so many different aspects. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, yak, you you were saying that yak, we will both know that patients will come in and see you. I mean, y I don't know that because I never I was never in private practice. I was only in in state.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02So I never owned my own practice. But yak, I can I know that that happens to him all the time. And when he climbed Everest and came back with his first butt and his fingers off and not practicing, it was it was an issue, right?
SPEAKER_00How cool is that?
SPEAKER_02Well, which part?
SPEAKER_00I I mean the experience, you know, like you it's I suppose painful at the time, but at the end you look back and you go, look what I did, look what I accomplished.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. To a certain degree. Uh no pun intended, but the what's the pun? Or the degree of the minus uh 67. But um well, just to touch on that subject, actually, like where because I asked you before, like, you know, how would you treat the chill blades and is it like a re like a rewarming type of thing that you're gonna do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like opening the blood vessel. Think of it like there's muscles on the side and you're just relaxing those those blood vessels because essentially it's a spasm. Yeah. And it's a spasm that sticks. So if you had come back from your Everest hike and you are now recovering, they're still a bit numb. Red light laser is a fantastic way to open that up again, get blood flowing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I did do that for my my left foot. I had frostbite. I was actually meant to lose two toes on my left foot and well, four fingers on my right hand, which I did, and then my nose and face as well. I was most worried about this stuff. But the guy in the tent with me, um, the night that you know we got evacuated and stuff, or the next day, he lost his whole foot, his whole they amputated from ankle. And that wasn't even a thing because he was completely mobile.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And when I spoke to him a month later, he showed me a photo and I was like, what? Like, what happened? Did you slip and fall down after you got back home? Because he was absolutely normal, but it just like snuck up on him, and I thought to myself, like, I wonder who would have treated him and how they would have treated that.
SPEAKER_03That's a shame.
SPEAKER_01But it's interesting, like around the world, like your profession would have different sort of scope of practice. Yeah. Because I'm sure like podiatry in in climbing communities is it's very, very, very relevant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I imagine it is. But but like you said, it I don't know if around the world it's it's well spread. I know we get a lot of um recruitments coming from Australia, the UK.
SPEAKER_02Um it's it's a professional board should send you to go to the other equivalents and just to interact with people. You know what I mean? Put in a word. Yeah, like some like exploratory. I mean I know it sounds like an excuse to to travel, but like just to see how other professional regulators work and regulate their um profession there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And and just learn from it.
SPEAKER_00It it would be very interesting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Do you ever go back to Veryland?
SPEAKER_00Are your parents my parents don't live there anymore.
SPEAKER_02Okay, they've moved. They've moved too much. Yeah, I mean uh I've been back to Tonga a few times. Uh it's different. It's different uh to see things.
SPEAKER_00Or maybe it's not, it's just your memory of it.
SPEAKER_02Could be, yeah. But no, it really is because they don't have the water. They don't have water.
SPEAKER_00They don't have water, yeah. Yeah, I imagine that's different.
SPEAKER_02But they they are used to not having water in some parts of Toronto.
SPEAKER_00That's terrible.
SPEAKER_02I mean Mount View must feature you on one of their things. I saw they featured my cousin Horel in one of their uh I don't think I d I've never seen anything like that.
SPEAKER_00No, I don't think so. But they must, because they must put you on there and plug the There are so many people that have uh, you know, just lived life and followed. You're supposed to, I'm sure they have a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02Well that but that's what they should do to inspire everyone else. That's fair. I'm telling you, nobody knows, well hardly anybody knows about podiatry, right? And the funny thing is at my my daughter's school, they sent out an email last week to say, you know, parents are grade eight, we're having a grade eight careers thing, and if any of you have like interesting stories, uh different career parts, come and speak to us. You know, yours would be something that could inspire.
SPEAKER_00I suppose quite unusual. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I'm actually gonna I'm gonna speak to a real and tell him put to put in your thing there and let Mount View feature you and call you there to be straight time. If when you do you have any dreams for your kids, like in terms of professions?
SPEAKER_00Yes, I'm doing that Indian mom thing where I'm teaching my son how to wash his hands like a surgeon.
SPEAKER_02Okay, really?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so came a boy, wash like a surgeon, you know. You can do this, but you can't really tell what they want to do. You try to pause one too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I said, the Indian mom thing, I'm just like, I'm putting it there just in case. Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But you turned on the medicine. I did, I did.
SPEAKER_02But don't let it become a surgeon in the in the proper sense of it. You must you must be down to earth.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. Oh no, he's a very sweet boy. My daughter is very, very feisty.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So for her, I'm thinking like a dictator of a small country or something.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00This is aiming small. Yeah, yeah. This is very feisty.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, cool. No, but it it's been a fun chat. Is there anything else that oh yeah, we we we sometimes often ask this question. I've I'm trying to retire it, but I mean, if if somebody comes to you and says, uh Nikita, I'm thinking of podiatry. Do you have any advice for me? What would you say to them?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, go for it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's wonderful. It's very you see, like I said, maggots and once we saw a Hot Wheels toy car embedded into a foot, you'll see all different kinds of beautiful, amazing, crazy things. You'll learn lots of stories from your patients. It's a very uh enriching career. Our patients are grateful.
SPEAKER_02Our patients are very grateful. Like, you know, in dentistry, sometimes they're not always the most grateful of people. Uh yak, don't say anything, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Maybe. Um for me, yes. Generally they're very nice. I've been blessed with wonderful patients, uh, lots of stories. I get, you know, parenting tips from my patients, um, recipes from the aunties. Uh sometimes they're so sweet.
SPEAKER_02They bring pickle and you sound like you really connect with your patients. Yeah, I love them.
SPEAKER_00I love them a lot. They are my the honest to God, best gift. And I've had people ask me, you know, do you want to grow this, make it a franchise? And but then you lose that that human connection.
SPEAKER_02But what if somebody who comes to you and asks you this question that I just pitched to you, what if they're a super introvert, yeah, non-peoples person?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, then what I I would say no, because I think I think a lot of the time, any kind of patient practitioner interaction, sometimes someone just wants to talk. You know? Sometimes they just want to connect that is the process of I suppose healing.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and extrapolating. It's part of the physician. It's part of the therapy or the therapeutic process. That connection.
SPEAKER_00And lots of people will ask me, oh, how how would AI change that? And I suppose that is that is one thing you cannot uh reproduce.
SPEAKER_02I think your your profession is probably very safe from AI.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because there's a lot of like manual. Okay, but AI, I mean like robot.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, until robotics becomes what Elon Musk says it's going to become. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I actually had a question. Um what's your opinion on reflexology? You've heard of reflexology.
SPEAKER_00I have, I have.
SPEAKER_02So is this a loaded question?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh personally, if if you feel that it works, half the job is done. But I I don't see any medical evidence to suggest that the stone relates to that kidney.
SPEAKER_02Oh, is that what reflexology is about? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But there is a lot of uh there is a lot of talk now about that mainstream medicine is is just mainstream, it's not the only way. Yeah. You know, there there is a lot of knowledge out there, and just because it's not something that we learned, obviously I'm into mainstream medicine and science and podiatry, but that's not to say that those things don't exist.
SPEAKER_02You want your stuff to be grounded in like evidence-based. Evidence-based. It has to be. It has to be.
SPEAKER_00Because remember, a lot of my patients, the payoff of dropping the ball is is too huge.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. Fascinating. Did you have fun with this album?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was great. I did.
SPEAKER_02I learned so much from you.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so we will see you and you will bring your kids because you must check their feet.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yes, yes. Well, let's do some plugging. Uh, where can people find you and stuff? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh so you can find well, if you can find us on um social media. So we are PodMed South Africa, and we are in a center called Bluebird.
SPEAKER_01B L U Bird. B L U, yeah. Yeah, I know that. I'm there every like Friday. Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_00You must come say hello.
SPEAKER_01My theater is across the road from you guys. Center for Advanced Medicine.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yes, of course. Yes, far at all. Yeah, yeah, of course. And that's where we are. And we have a WhatsApp line. You can check it out on our socials, contact us that way. Yeah, and please um like our funny posts because we think we're very funny.
SPEAKER_01You must leave some cards here with that. Like because you're not far.
SPEAKER_00Like shared substance. Yeah, actually, it's not far. I was surprised that it took me so quick to do.
SPEAKER_02But no, jokes is that if I come there, I mean it's it's you'll take medical aid.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really? Okay, you don't.
SPEAKER_00We don't, we don't. Okay. We are a private practice, although our general fees are medical aid rates plus fat, because that is it.
SPEAKER_02So I will pay you, then I'll claim back for my medical aid. That's the easier way to do it for you. That is it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So everybody.
SPEAKER_00But like I know, you know, you can just bring your kids. The kids Google always tells me that I have a problem, and that's probably why I never became a pediatrician, is because when you see the kids, I'm just like, you don't have to pay. Just come in. You're the best.
SPEAKER_02I love you. You know how to get me, you know. Cool, man. Thank you so much. It was fun.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having me. It was great to get you. Thank you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It was fun. Well, what problems do kids have, actually?