SPEAKER_09 0:00

I forgot to message my Yfty and say I'm here safely.

SPEAKER_08 0:05

Safely. That's cute.

SPEAKER_09 0:08

Starting to record.

SPEAKER_08 0:09

I just left my phone in the car so that my husband doesn't ever try to contact me the entire time on the card. Sorry guys.

SPEAKER_09 0:20

Yeah. Welcome, Nadia Kamini. Nadia Sheba Kamini Shanmagum. I must give the full names so we've got it on record. First proper I won't say proper, but first proper podcasters. Yeah. We've had somebody previously who has started a podcast, but you guys have started and continued.

SPEAKER_08 0:39

So far so good. So far touch really.

SPEAKER_09 0:42

Good to have you guys on, yeah. And it's our first uh four-person vodka podcast. As many people that we can have at the moment.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

That's exciting.

SPEAKER_09 0:51

I I see you guys as insurance specialists. Do you do you agree or disagree? Or what what do you guys do for a living?

SPEAKER_08 1:01

We do insurance claims for a living. Yeah. That's our that's our specialty. So not just insurance, insurance claims specifically. And specialist insurance claims. Yeah. So liability claims.

SPEAKER_09 1:12

Yeah. Do you understand? No, not at all. Please break that down. What does liability mean?

SPEAKER_05 1:17

So basically it's those type of claims which relate to medical malpractice, professional indemnity, cyber financial lines, those type of claims where there could be a legal liability. And we are the ones that help you sort out any potential claim against you.

SPEAKER_09 1:30

Okay, so you're talking about like being sued by a patient.

SPEAKER_08 1:33

Yes. So hypothetically, if you're a dentist and if you I am. No. And if you um hurt somebody along the way, or if they're That's our job. Yes, I mean, but if you hurt them in a wrongful way. And then they or if they allege that you hurt them in a wrongful way and they suffered damages because of how you practiced, then you would have insurance for that, or you should have insurance for that. Or all doctors have insurance for that.

SPEAKER_09 2:03

So it is No, no, not all doctors. Oh, not all doctors have insurance for that.

SPEAKER_05 2:10

I've heard of it. Some are some think they don't need it.

SPEAKER_09 2:13

A lot think they don't, especially in like the public sector. But you'll be surprised. There's people in private that don't have. So you guys do the same thing then? No, no, not really. I just speak to dentists for a living and help them when they've got ambassador. And I don't work for an insurance company. So yeah. But uh you you guys are you have uh legal backgrounds, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:36

Studied law. And then ended up in insurance. I think we all ended up by accident. We did end up.

SPEAKER_08 2:42

Well, I don't really think I ended up by accident. I actually did insurance when I was in adversity somehow. It wasn't intentional, it was just to get extra money. But then eventually I did end up in insurance.

SPEAKER_05 2:53

I insurance was something I never saw. I thought I would go into human rights or things like that, and then I ended up in insurance. I did one elective though, and then I just ended up in insurance. But I knew practice wasn't for me in early on, so I was just like, I I follow you guys on LinkedIn, both of you.

SPEAKER_09 3:10

Like LinkedIn is one of my favorite social media platforms, if not my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 3:15

And when I think of one of you, I think of the other. Like you guys are inseparable almost.

SPEAKER_08 3:20

We're best friends. Yeah. We didn't notice.

SPEAKER_09 3:23

How did that happen?

SPEAKER_08 3:24

Goes way back. I was thinking about it this morning. We met 16 years ago, actually. Yeah. Um, we started working at the same place. And incidentally, I didn't realize that we actually studied together. Yeah. And I don't remember Nadia, but she remembers me.

SPEAKER_05 3:39

I do remember you.

SPEAKER_08 3:40

You showed me the one photo one. Yes. So we started working together at this insurance company, and I think we were already quite advanced in age at that time. And we started talking to each other and chatting, and then somehow we just followed each other from one place to the next place and the next place, and we've been inseparable since.

SPEAKER_09 3:59

So we when you say studying, this was f studying law. Yes, and we studied it. Yeah, yeah. Where are you guys from?

SPEAKER_05 4:06

I'm from the South, Lens.

SPEAKER_09 4:08

Joba?

SPEAKER_05 4:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 4:09

Okay. We're both from you you guys sound like you from Durban. It's a compliment. Yeah. Yeah. Why is it a compliment? Don't I don't know, like Indians from Johannesburg feel like they they it's it's like a fake act. Like you can alienate our listeners, but yeah, they maybe they need to.

SPEAKER_08 4:24

Both of us are from Lynasia. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 4:27

Okay. All right. Wait, Lens South. So that's Texina.

SPEAKER_08 4:31

Yes, I'm from Lens South. And I'm from Lens Lens. Normal Lens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 4:34

Okay, there's a difference.

SPEAKER_08 4:36

15-minute drive.

SPEAKER_05 4:37

It's originally. Yeah, no, we're the same, one in the same. I think we get excited when you hear that someone's staying in that same area. Yeah, it's like homie, first pump. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 4:45

Yeah. But but you all didn't know each other growing up, obviously. No. Both from Lens. This is big, bro.

SPEAKER_05 4:50

Yeah. It's very big. It is big, yes. It's very big. It's like asking, Do you know Mohammed? And there's like a thousand Mohammeds in Lens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 4:58

How do you so why do you know why it's called in Asia?

SPEAKER_08 5:01

Any idea? Captain Lenz.

SPEAKER_09 5:02

Who's that?

SPEAKER_08 5:03

I think it was named by Gandhi, wasn't it? No, don't don't go to the box. We'll get back to on the historical part.

SPEAKER_09 5:10

Captain Lenz.

SPEAKER_05 5:11

Wasn't he like a British soldier or something that came back in the day, I think. But let's verify that information. We should just find out.

SPEAKER_09 5:20

I thought it had something to do with Asia, like Len, Asia.

SPEAKER_05 5:23

Yeah, but also I think maybe at that time, because of the Asians that were placed in that area. And I know there was a captain. I think this is my father's explanation, right? There was a captain. Captain, military captain or an army captain or something like that.

SPEAKER_09 5:35

I'm just going with the first AI results, right? Linasia was named by combining the word Lens. Referring to the nearby Lens military base.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_09 5:46

A German landowner named Lens with Asia to represent the Indian community force to move there, established in 1956 by the Artec government. It was a designated area for Indian residents. That's Lens. Why? I don't know. India. Like there's no Chinese there. They don't have to call it. Lindia, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:05

No, I get that. Lindian, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 6:07

So you guys, what made you do Lower, of all things? Just Ali McBeal.

SPEAKER_05 6:12

Pressure. Peer pressure. No, but I think also when you grow up in the Allie McBeal. Yeah, remember Allie McBeal came out and baby. Yeah. Like remember there was LA Law in all those movies that we used to watch. I mean those serials. But I think there was the the options, right? When you grow up, especially in the Indian household, it's either medicine, teaching, accounting, law. Like those were seen as the professions or But what did you really want to do? I wanted to be a writer. I thought I wanted to be an A hostess.

SPEAKER_09 6:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 6:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 6:44

And then just never even bothered telling parents that that's what I'm going to do.

SPEAKER_05 6:50

I remember having a conversation with my father, and my father was like, but long term, what if you get older? Then what are you going to do? At least if you do something with a foundation, then you can navigate and diversify in terms of where you want to end up.

SPEAKER_09 7:02

What did he do?

SPEAKER_05 7:03

He studied accounting. He actually wanted to do medicine, but then he ended up doing his county.

unknown 7:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 7:08

So there was no like gentle nudge by him to you to do medicine?

SPEAKER_05 7:13

No, I think I was lucky with my parents. They were very supportive, whatever I wanted to do, except the AHO testing. Maybe it was okay. As long as I studied and I focused on my studies. And my brothers were more passionate about the law thing. Especially my brother, Amin. He was just like, My sister, she needs to do this. And I was a baby, a lot lamicy. So you can imagine like very protective brothers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 7:36

Like so two older brothers then?

SPEAKER_05 7:38

Two older brothers and an elder sister. Okay.

SPEAKER_09 7:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:43

Family. Yeah. Yeah. So then there's like what? Ten grandchildren and nine great grandchildren.

SPEAKER_09 7:47

Sure. That's nice though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 7:49

It's like a yesterday we had Juma Lunch, everybody was there, and I'm thinking the natives are gonna think, where's all this noise coming from? But it was so wholesome. You know, it's just so nice having everyone around.

SPEAKER_09 7:59

It's lovely. And why not writing? Why not writing money?

SPEAKER_08 8:03

Yeah, I didn't see there was any money. What did you want to write? Books, storybooks or kids kids fiction or adult fiction. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 8:18

So what do you write?

SPEAKER_08 8:20

Whatever comes to me.

SPEAKER_09 8:21

Do you publish stuff?

SPEAKER_08 8:22

No, I haven't published anything.

SPEAKER_09 8:23

I don't have the Where do you store all of their stuff?

SPEAKER_08 8:26

On the cloud. Yeah, I need to. Can we get a commitment? No.

SPEAKER_09 8:35

I mean, I had a friend that used to write um rap mu like rhymes. I don't know what it's called. And one time we we found his book and we took it and started reading it out at Rez. It was cool. Yeah, I had a cousin that used to write swear words in a book.

unknown 8:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 8:48

Is it this kind?

SPEAKER_09 8:50

I did that once. I did that once and now you see it making it like I write I had this issue writing swear words. I did it once because I was annoyed with something.

SPEAKER_07 8:59

So you just wanted to be able to do that. Then my parents found it. Why don't you just say this way? Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 9:02

I don't know. Maybe I wanted to be a writer also. I wanted to be a writer. You're just journaling these emotions. Yeah, I thought yeah. Anyway, parents found it. I thought by the way. Do you you have to you guys have to write in your profession quite often? Yeah, no, write a lot.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

We have to. We do writing.

SPEAKER_09 9:19

Oh, not typing. No, Yaki means physically writing.

SPEAKER_05 9:22

Oh, physically writing, no. No, but I like to journal and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Journaling and stuff writing as well.

SPEAKER_09 9:27

Do you get do you have like those road books and uh lami pens and all these things? Are you into that? Yeah, I I went through that phase. I used to buy fountain pens and things. Are you in that also?

SPEAKER_05 9:39

I like all different types of stationery and pens and all those things. And I found journaling is a nice way to just like rewire the cogs.

SPEAKER_09 9:47

Apparently, yeah, pen is good for you. It is very good.

SPEAKER_05 9:49

Because I think we've become so dependent on typing and stuff like that. I mean my handwriting deteriorated so much that now at least I can read what I write.

SPEAKER_09 9:59

So it's stored in the cloud. Do you ever read what you write? Like later?

SPEAKER_08 10:04

I read it all the time.

SPEAKER_09 10:05

And who do you read it to?

SPEAKER_08 10:06

To myself.

SPEAKER_09 10:07

Okay. No, I'm just I find it fascinating. So and is it like hundreds of pages? But you were there the first time when you wrote it. So why are you reading it to yourself?

SPEAKER_07 10:15

I want to read it. Yeah, I can probably do that.

SPEAKER_08 10:17

If you sometimes I even watch videos that we take back. I watch it over and over of podcasts. Yeah. I love going back and seeing the video. You don't watch it again, you're cringe.

SPEAKER_09 10:27

No, I do, but that's why I'm asking about writing specifically specifically because have you guys seen that meme where uh somebody said somebody's it's somebody sitting at a computer looking at an email or Microsoft Outlook or something, and they say, um, when I wrote it's such a good email that I read it twice uh for my sent out for my sent box just to see how they it it is from their perspective. Yeah. That kind of thing. Yeah. But I don't know anybody that like writes books, so okay, you read them.

SPEAKER_08 10:54

Yes, I read it back to myself. You can back to write to good books. No, I haven't shared it with anybody else.

SPEAKER_09 11:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 11:01

That'll be cool. You you seem very reluctant to share right now.

SPEAKER_08 11:04

I am, guys. It's like a thing that I'm working through in therapy eventually.

SPEAKER_09 11:11

Consider this this a free session. So thank you. Yeah. So you you just didn't want to carry on that with that professionally because you saw I will one day when I when I when I get there.

SPEAKER_08 11:23

There's a lot of things that I've said that I feel the world is not ready for. So or that I'm not ready for the world to receive. Um yes. Therapy. So when I'm ready for the world to receive it, the world will receive it.

SPEAKER_09 11:39

Okay, yeah, won't let Yash push you. So what's Lens like growing up in Lens?

SPEAKER_08 11:43

So cool. It's so lacquer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 11:45

Did you guys know many Durbanites at the time?

SPEAKER_08 11:47

Yeah, there's a lot of people from Durbanit moved to Lenz, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 11:50

And what do you do in Lenz? What's it like?

SPEAKER_05 11:53

It's very communal. Yeah. Right. The one thing about that you really love about it, it's very communal to the extent you can go and ask your neighbor for a cup of sugar and no judgment, whatever you need. Eat and dipali, getting the parcels, if there's a problem, everybody's day. It's very hand a lot of hand holding and a lot of love. The irritating thing about it is you know those surveillance camera aunties that know everything about you.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:17

That's the one thing I always found. Yeah. Yeah. Annoying. You are that surveillance camera auntie at this point.

SPEAKER_09 12:24

So you know what's going on.

SPEAKER_05 12:27

I try and switch off the Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_09 12:29

It's good to have those surveillance aunties. No, no, no. If somebody's breaking into your house or something, at least they'll know. And they can alert you. They never.

SPEAKER_07 12:37

They don't. They don't, when it comes to important things, they don't know. Yeah, tender blind.

SPEAKER_05 12:47

Like, I knew. Like if I know with my one brother, he was very protective, right? He actually scared the boys in school. So they didn't really talk to me, right? Because of him.

SPEAKER_10 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:58

So my brother knew his my whereabouts because of his friends, because he was known in the town. So if I went to a fate and we're sitting here, we're having dinner, and he's like, Where's Nadia?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:08

Sure. And he knew that's that's how strict he was at that point in time. Okay. Yeah. And that's the great part in Lens. Yeah. Nothing is a mean sister was here.

SPEAKER_09 13:18

And then Lens is in Indian area. Did you guys go to Indian schools or?

SPEAKER_05 13:22

No, you went to school in Lens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 13:24

Yeah, everything. Everything is in Lens.

SPEAKER_05 13:26

Yeah. Everything in Lens. And I think in our school, at that time, it started integrating. You started receiving kids from Soweto and that. So it was actually nice to actually meet people, different people.

SPEAKER_09 13:36

So there was a time where there were only Indian kids in the schools. And then slowly black kids started coming in. Um leaning over like you have to. Yeah. What school was this? You guys went to different schools.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

I went to how many? You into Lanasia Secondary? Linasia Secondary. Oh, and then it is a Nirvana High School.

SPEAKER_09 13:56

Nirvana. Yeah, I used to live on Nirvana Road. Nirvana Road, yeah. But uh how many high schools are there in Lens?

SPEAKER_04 14:01

That can't be really, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 14:03

It's a population there of Lens. It's quite a bit. That I Google Now. I don't I'm tired of Googling, but it it's big. It's one of the bigger Indian areas, right? We used to visit Lens quite often. Oh cousins. Yeah. We had cousins in Lens. Oh really? Texina Island.

SPEAKER_08 14:17

Is it? Who are they?

SPEAKER_09 14:18

Nadesons and Nadesons and Naidos.

SPEAKER_08 14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 14:22

But they Oh Naidos, you really narrow it down. Narrow Git down. Yeah. Yeah. They were Naidos. Yeah, we know that.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 14:29

Are you related to Sorenso? Sorenzo. Spi then so then what? So le high school, everything in in Lens, then Witz is not in Lens, clearly.

SPEAKER_08 14:41

Is that like the first time that We were let out loose in the But is that even being let out loose, though? Yeah. Because think about it. Like we were in a very close community. Yeah. Yeah. We we had the same friends from the time we were in grade one until the time we matriculated. So it was a it was a new ball game.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

It was still being new people, like new experiences. I remember once walk on campus walking past one area where they were smoking weed and things like that.

SPEAKER_09 15:10

And like But they do that in Lens, don't they? Come on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:16

But like I think in my world, because I wasn't allowed to go to certain spots, right? Now you're on campus, you can take the if you don't want to stay for the late lecture. I learned how to take the taxi into town, um, go shopping at those little, you know, those nice stores, walk down to the taxi lane. The the taxi guy actually used to get so used to me now. He knew you were going to Extension 7. He'd be like, Okay, come, the space is reserved for you. You come in if someone has a car. And then I remember there were days I sat in a taxi with a hole at the bottom. Well, sitting on the door. You can see the grind like the flint stones, you can put your foot in there.

unknown 15:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 15:52

So emergency that big.

SPEAKER_05 15:53

Well, you're holding on for dear life and then they deliberately put you in front, learning to count the money.

SPEAKER_09 15:59

And how long does it take to get from Linz to Fitz?

SPEAKER_05 16:02

About half an hour. Oh, not bad. Yeah. If there's traffic, then it's then it's terrible. Yeah. It's terrible. Yeah. But I learned how to like navigate. Did you take the bus, not? I took the bus, but sometimes it was too late in the afternoon, like a five o'clock, if I had a three o'clock. So then I'd be like, okay, take a bus thirty-two into town, walk down Commissioner Street, get the taxi. So I learned a lot on my own. I never told my mother, my parents at that time.

SPEAKER_09 16:26

Well, what did they think you were doing?

SPEAKER_05 16:27

They would flick they would freak out if they knew how I was doing it. They thought, okay, maybe she's just finished. She got a left with someone. Oh. Okay, so you uh We just avoided that exercising your freedom.

SPEAKER_09 16:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 16:38

And like taking a bus thirty-two to Eastgate, go watch a movie. You know, it gave a lot more. You were wild on campus.

SPEAKER_09 16:45

Law school and wild. Did you actually go to class?

SPEAKER_08 16:49

I did. I did. I never did.

SPEAKER_09 16:50

Yeah. How what's law school like? I mean, I I I I studied through UNISA, so I didn't need the proper.

SPEAKER_08 16:57

Law school, it's a full of um very great people that will show you a really nice time. Yeah. You don't expect the people. There's not a lot of studying involved. Um you just you need to be disciplined for campuses. Yes. But you meet good people and they stay your parents forever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 17:13

Was the matrix around it?

SPEAKER_08 17:14

Yes, there was. It was just built that time, I think. Yeah, we could get the pies from Jelly Delicious. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 17:20

Is that where the law school is? Near the Matrix? Is that main campus?

SPEAKER_08 17:24

Oh, that's on West Campus. Yeah. So there's two campuses East Campus and West Campus. And the East Campus is where We hung out most of the time. The Matrix. We're supposed to be on West Campus. But the financial parts of it, the B common, the LLB, are on the other campus. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 17:39

So did you hang out with mostly Lens people also in Wits? Or did you get exposed to Because lots of Durbanites come to Wits, right? To study or any other place.

SPEAKER_08 17:48

Yeah, there's a lot of Indian people at Wits, but we we diversified, I think. Okay. Well I didn't yeah. I didn't know you.

SPEAKER_05 17:54

I think I had fewer friends from Lenz in Bar City. I had very different friends from all over, Dandy, everywhere. So it was actually.

SPEAKER_08 18:03

And a lot of Indian people were doing B calm. So they weren't really in our circles.

SPEAKER_05 18:07

We were you know there was that specific click. Like there were these different clicks, and you knew okay, this is just one click and the dressing up click and what different means that so then tell me like about law.

SPEAKER_09 18:20

I've studied things like engineering and medicine, and those one is squatting and one is understanding. So what is law? What do you have to do? What do you have to do? How do you apply yourself? Is it like the course curriculum just makes you like read through notes and then you understand it? Or how do you how do you do it? How do you do it? Can I tell you my UNISA experience?

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 18:43

All I did was pass papers. Laws. Yeah, I just did pass papers like going back as far as I could, and I would answer every single one myself, and then later on just memorize everything. That's how that that was that's how I and I did well. Like uh But it was you look surprised.

SPEAKER_08 19:04

You should all study it through Unisha Like the lectures and well I didn't go to the lectures, but um And don't throw your you I heard the shade at UNISA's Some of the best lawyers in the world are capable of it. I heard that earlier now.

SPEAKER_09 19:19

I was gonna let it slide, but I've got a stand for my Unisa people.

SPEAKER_08 19:23

Yeah, I mean it was a lot of um not memorizing stuff. Well, there was a lot of understanding case law that you kind of had to memorize, but it was more about applying yourself. That's what I said. Um and if you're good at kind of writing a lot of things or being able to express yourself in writing, then it was it was quite easy.

SPEAKER_09 19:41

Yeah, because the reason why I ask is like all of us are existing in this world, right? Yeah. And we're just doing things. But it's only the lawyers that are know or that would know what is actually the right and wrong thing to do. But then when I think about that deeper, it's like maybe nobody knows, but it's just you guys are good with writing and understanding that will interpret or make someone else interpret that this guy was trying to do the right thing, but it ended up offending someone else, so that is why he's not liable, he's not culpable. Is that a good interpretation of how things are?

SPEAKER_08 20:15

If you're a good lawyer, you'll be able to uh spin it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 20:20

Spin it. Usually there's that. The narrative. Yeah. Yeah. Change the narrative. Yeah. So you'll they're lying, liar space. So but then how how was it? Was it easy getting through law school?

SPEAKER_05 20:32

Like relatively simple. Maybe one cause I think was I was very dumb in law of succession for some reason. Contract I aced it, right? Really? But law of succession, I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 20:44

What is that? What's a law of succession?

SPEAKER_05 20:45

When you die.

SPEAKER_09 20:46

When you die, or like uh states, yeah. Contract for me was a killer.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

I loved contract.

SPEAKER_09 20:51

Law contract. I had to aggro the thing. I'm looking at my LLB folder on my Google Drive now because I wanted to find something to show off to you guys about that.

SPEAKER_07 20:59

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_09 20:59

Here's a letter.

SPEAKER_07 21:00

Okay. I'm gonna read this editor to you on the other.

SPEAKER_09 21:03

It's a letter to me. Dated 2015-0730. Dear Dr. Naidu, distinction medical law. I would like to congratulate you on having obtained this distinction in the recent examination. What a pleasure to come across a script such as yours, which attests to dedication and thorough preparation. I noticed that you managed to improve quite dramatically, blah, blah, blah. Your performance in the exam was outstanding. You managed to obtain the highest final mark of all students. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_05 21:26

Well done, man.

SPEAKER_09 21:27

I was especially impressed, blah, blah, blah. We constantly strive. Long carries on. Congratulations once more. Advocate El Cutsia.

SPEAKER_08 21:34

So how do you apply to Eunisa?

SPEAKER_09 21:39

No, but how cool is that? I was I was shocked because I was shocked because my uh everybody's perception of Eunicea is just like correspondence place. They don't just a number. But this guy wrote to me, Advocate Elsie Kutsier. And it's I've saved this letter because it's such a cool thing.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

Oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_09 21:56

Um but yeah, all I did was just pass papers.

SPEAKER_03 21:59

Natural brain.

SPEAKER_09 22:00

And um things.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

Yes, you had an affinity for it.

SPEAKER_09 22:03

I I I enjoyed law. Like when I did dentistry, I was the total opposite of the law thing. It just goes to show that if you enjoy what you do, maybe you put in the effort or if you're paying for it, because I was paying for it also.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 22:19

Law school. So I mean any any there's no you don't guys don't get horror stories and stuff in law school, right? It's not like mead or dental school where your supervisor berates you or something like that. You just carry on and you pass. Did you guys fail anything?

SPEAKER_05 22:35

Nothing. I failed succession once. I told you I failed. That was my I was also a tutor in succession.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

I should have come to you. Yeah. If only we knew.

SPEAKER_09 22:45

Yeah, you sound like an overachiever. Like you're just gonna do it.

SPEAKER_04 22:47

Oh no, this is genius.

SPEAKER_09 22:48

Yeah. Tutor in succession. And you mentioned the insurance.

SPEAKER_07 22:52

You need money.

SPEAKER_09 22:53

Yeah, for what?

SPEAKER_07 22:55

Life.

SPEAKER_09 22:56

No, seriously. Go on.

SPEAKER_07 22:58

What did you need money for? Why do you need money?

SPEAKER_09 23:01

Buying the pens and yourself.

SPEAKER_05 23:02

That's expensive, eh?

SPEAKER_09 23:03

Who was paying for for your education at the time?

SPEAKER_05 23:06

I had a student.

SPEAKER_09 23:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 23:08

My dad my parents, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 23:09

Okay.

unknown 23:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 23:10

But then tell me how does it work? Like are you just allowed to tutor like that?

SPEAKER_08 23:14

No, you have to apply.

SPEAKER_09 23:15

Okay. Yeah. Because you're not applying to the other.

SPEAKER_08 23:17

So you have to get um a certain mark in the subject. Oh. And then once you are in that category, then you can apply to the professor to become a tutor. And somehow And the song is genius natural. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_09 23:30

Was it good money?

SPEAKER_08 23:32

At the time.

SPEAKER_09 23:33

Like how much?

SPEAKER_08 23:35

Like a hundred an hour or something. Well, that's not bad, huh?

SPEAKER_09 23:38

Yeah, that's really actually cool. And what were you doing with the money? Can I can I probe? If you don't, if you if it's hard to do a personal.

SPEAKER_08 23:46

Recreational stuff or paying off the loan. No, paying off the loan. I paid off the loan after I after I finished.

SPEAKER_09 23:53

Yeah, and how long it takes long to do.

SPEAKER_08 23:55

I was 30 years old when I finished paying my student loan off.

SPEAKER_09 23:58

It's crazy, eh? Do you get you get it from the bank, right?

SPEAKER_08 24:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_09 24:02

Okay. Fascinating. And then what so what happens after law school? Do you have to look for a job? You have to do articles. Articles.

SPEAKER_05 24:09

Articles and PLT.

SPEAKER_09 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:11

PLT was rough.

SPEAKER_09 24:14

What is PLT?

SPEAKER_05 24:15

Practical legal training.

SPEAKER_09 24:16

Is that not articles?

SPEAKER_08 24:18

No. So articles is where, well, at the time we were doing it, which was the Stone Ages, it was a lot of kind of silly work. Like you needed to be a copy.

SPEAKER_09 24:32

It's a paid though, right? You get paid for it.

SPEAKER_08 24:34

Oh. Very little. You could just basically get yourself there and go home. And um, so I used to work for this. I did my articles at an MBA. What do you call those people? Those ambulance chaser, ambulance chaser law firm. Yeah. And it was a small one, it was in the middle of town. And um, you know, they have to do medical legals to see what happened to the person and what their injuries were, etc. So it was my job to drive these people. So they used to live like maybe in Soweto. So I would have to drive me and drive into Soweto and go fetch them at how old was I? Maybe 22, 20 years. Go fetch them and then drive them to a doctor in Pretoria. So that was my whole day.

SPEAKER_09 25:15

Did they allow me to put the siren on?

SPEAKER_08 25:17

No, I mean I wasn't an ambulance. It was I had to take them to doctor's appointments.

SPEAKER_09 25:23

Oh, like your own vehicle. Yes. Oh, no.

SPEAKER_08 25:25

Yes. And yeah, so I would constantly be getting stuck in so like having flat tires in Soweto and being like out in the Bundus and not knowing where I was because there was no Google maps. Yeah. At that time I had a map book.

SPEAKER_10 25:40

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_08 25:42

So I just used this map book to see um So it really was the Stone Ages then.

SPEAKER_09 25:46

It was. Was it a cell phone at least?

SPEAKER_08 25:49

I had a cell phone, yeah. But I didn't have Varsity. But they didn't probably have cell phones. Yeah. So um, yeah. So I would be, yeah, they would say, like, she lives in house seven in there's no street. I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_07 26:03

Let me go and find this person. So it was very.

SPEAKER_09 26:06

Uber for your articles.

SPEAKER_07 26:08

Basically.

SPEAKER_09 26:08

Yeah, that's it's hectic, eh? And now people are battling to get articles. Really? Yeah, it's difficult.

SPEAKER_07 26:14

I thought it's easy to get articles. No, no, not anymore.

SPEAKER_09 26:16

It's very difficult. And people are even willing to do articles for free.

SPEAKER_05 26:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_09 26:21

Because it's so hard to get.

SPEAKER_05 26:22

There's a lot of people that haven't, I know. Yeah. Have been struggling. That's why they used to send us all CVs. These CVs to like send down.

SPEAKER_09 26:30

No, law is very saturated. But I just want to explain the because Yak thought he heard the word the term ambulance. And then he thought you're driving around in an ambulance. But I Googled it because I'm I'm gonna make it Google's words, not mine. An ambulance chaser is a drug tree term for an unethical, an unethical personal injury lawyer.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_09 26:55

Offering pressuring victims into often pressuring victims into lawsuits. Yeah. So they were. Yeah, well, we know we know a few of these. Firms that advertise on. I don't know any. No, I don't know. You don't? I can no, well, probably. Well, not for more.

SPEAKER_08 27:13

I think so much. I think back in the day maybe it was, but now it's a lot more regulated, where not really allowed to be canvassing. Canvassing and advertising and touting and all of it being an ambulance chaser. So it that's good that there's been so much of regulation to change the Trevor Burrus. That's good.

SPEAKER_09 27:28

I actually asked you this question on a previous episode where we uh it was my opinion that we it's so unfair that patients are allowed to sue doctors, right? And if proven not wrongful treatment, why uh why is there no request for you? Exactly, for the doctor. But then you get company or attorneys or firms that actively go on canvas for patients to want to sue doctors and only take uh I guess a fee if they if there is a payout.

SPEAKER_08 27:58

Yes, it's a contingency fee agreement.

SPEAKER_09 28:01

So that's no longer a thing. They're not allowed to do that.

SPEAKER_08 28:03

Contingency fee agreements still exist. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 28:05

Okay. It's a thing. I think I think it's potentially good. It gives people access to access to justice.

SPEAKER_05 28:10

Yeah, to justice.

SPEAKER_09 28:12

Just because people advertise doesn't mean they're being unethical.

SPEAKER_05 28:14

Yeah. And I think maybe there's been some few firms that have just overstepped and have done things unethically. But you get the good return firms that will first do their homework before they pursue something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 28:25

So And sometimes like as a defense lawyer, you'll be grateful to see that it's a reputable plaintiff firm on the other side, as opposed to just fly by night.

SPEAKER_05 28:36

Yeah, because sometimes you know what was shocking when when I used to work on med malclaims, all of a sudden you'd see firms that were experienced in conveyancing, taking on medical malpractice claims. I remember the one time I phoned someone and I asked them because she was like, Where's my settlement? But I'm like, but I need the quantification, I need the proof of the damages. And she's like, no, first send me the offer. And I'm like, I can't do that. And then a few weeks later, she sends the she sends the documentation. But I was like, it's actually shocking who's taking on the work.

SPEAKER_09 29:06

Yeah. People learn on the job, I guess, wherever that's the thing about being a lawyer. Sometimes you're gonna do things that you're not used to doing.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

No.

SPEAKER_09 29:16

But now let's go back because articles, right? So once you finish you doing your Ubering, and how was your articles experience? Yeah, where did you do yours?

SPEAKER_05 29:24

Lens.

SPEAKER_09 29:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

Photocopy.

SPEAKER_09 29:26

Small law firm.

SPEAKER_05 29:27

Very small conveyancing. That's why it just put me off.

SPEAKER_09 29:30

Transfers and all that stuff. Where did you do yours? At Norton Rose Fulbright.

SPEAKER_05 29:34

Yeah, that's when we met, I think we met you afterwards, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 29:37

Oh, really? Did we meet you at Northern Rose? So that's Denise. They changed their DNA. Oh, yeah. They changed their name to Dine.

SPEAKER_09 29:43

When did this happen? Like last month. Oh, a few weeks ago. Yeah. But so tell me, how does it work with articles? You just apply to the firm and it's up to them to accept if they want to take you or not. And then there's a predetermined salary.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

Yeah. Basically.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 29:58

That's it. Yeah. That's a bit a better approach. It's a competitive field. It's really competitive. There's so many people doing law out there thirsty. So you have to like if you want to get into a big law firm, you've got to be shooting the you know the lights out with marks. Yeah. And then only after that, once they give you like a certificate, they will you then like what uh like approve to go and practice privately.

SPEAKER_08 30:24

So it's a whole um ceremony. You have to apply to court to be admitted as a legal practitioner now, but at that time as an attorney. So you would have to do practical legal studies like Nard said. You have to write board exams, which are four, and you have to do your articles. And there was something else. I don't know what else. So you take all these papers and you get a attorney to do an application to court for you, and then you go there in court, like yeah. It's a it's a big day. And then the judge will say, Okay, you are now admitted to practice.

SPEAKER_09 30:57

Aaron Powell That's interesting. I didn't know that because it's almost like a public-private partnership. Like the universities are outsourcing to the private sector. I wonder if that can be done. I don't get it. Like you they you ought to go and do articles at a private law firm, and then only afterwards do you get admitted. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Well, you can do your articles at I think. Yeah, what's it uh legal What's the public legal aid.

SPEAKER_08 31:20

Legal aid.

SPEAKER_09 31:21

I think you can do articles there. Yeah, you can. But I wonder if that could be a thing, like having Comsur or internship for the medical students to be done at in private sector. Very good point.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

That's actually something that's a good solution, too. Yeah, get into healthcare policy.

SPEAKER_09 31:36

No, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Innovation.

SPEAKER_09 31:37

Yeah. Yeah. So Lens, how was that doing articles there? Also driving around.

SPEAKER_05 31:42

Driving around.

SPEAKER_09 31:43

Picking up Brianni. Did you have to phone people? You know what I hated about like when I moved from because I was a dentist, right? Then I went to Norton Rose and sitting in the floor in the middle there with all the candidate attorneys. I hated making phone calls.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

I know.

SPEAKER_09 31:57

In front of like everybody else, like in an open plan place. I felt so so self-conscious. Self-conscious. I used to go some I used to go to the basement sometimes and make phone calls.

SPEAKER_05 32:05

Really?

SPEAKER_09 32:06

That's how self-conscious I was, just to be in my car.

SPEAKER_05 32:08

I felt that when I started working in corporate. Really? I I had this thing where I hated taking calls at home because we were taking so many calls. I just also didn't like it. I'd speak softer when I was on the phone because I didn't want anyone to hear me.

SPEAKER_09 32:21

Yes. Well that's exactly my experience because there's other people around. I see that as my first experience in corporate and inverted commas. Because before that I was in the hospital. Yeah. Yeah. Seeing patients. But what were you talking about? What were you guys talking about? Like sensitive conversations or sometimes sensitive, sometimes not.

SPEAKER_05 32:39

Just normal. Like something, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 32:42

Or do this or do that, or ask them, can you send me this draft or whatever? But it was it's awkward.

SPEAKER_05 32:49

I felt but I think I was also a lot more shy when I was younger. I have my moments where I'm a bit very introverted, and then when I'm very comfortable, then I just waffle or waffle.

SPEAKER_09 32:59

But do you think you're introverted or it's just that the environment made you shy?

SPEAKER_05 33:04

I think it could have been the environment. Yeah. Maybe. If I think if I look back on it, maybe the environment. Yeah. But didn't you do that test?

SPEAKER_08 33:12

See if you're introverted or extroverted. I think it's the I-N-T-G-J-G, whatever it's called. I-N-T-J. What did it say? I forgot.

SPEAKER_09 33:20

I also can't remember.

SPEAKER_08 33:21

I can't remember extroverted.

SPEAKER_05 33:23

Yeah, I do believe it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 33:24

Yeah. I must do that.

SPEAKER_05 33:26

Well, sometimes I think I am a mix. But because I know after I've socialized a lot, I need a time out to just go.

SPEAKER_08 33:32

So you are an extrovert. An extrovert is not about or introvert, it's not about if you are quiet or if you're allowed. It's about where you get your energy from.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 33:40

So if you're around a lot of people and then you feel great afterwards, if you're at a party and then you like on a high for days afterwards, then you're an extrovert. But if you're at a party and then you feel like I just need to not anymore. And there's nothing wrong with either one of them. It's just how we expend our energy.

SPEAKER_09 33:56

You know there's another one. It's called ambivertis. Ambiverte. Yeah, I think that's like a bit of both. Yeah. So after art like after you finish articles, now you need a job, right? Yeah. So what happens?

SPEAKER_05 34:09

I remember I was I was at home for a while and then I was like, what am I gonna do with my life? I don't want to go into practice or anything. And then a friend of mine that I met at Jum, he was like, Okay, um there's this position at Telisho. And he's like, why don't you apply? And then I applied and I got the job, and that's how I got into insurance. Yeah. Interesting.

SPEAKER_08 34:32

Come on. I got married actually on the same month that I got admitted.

SPEAKER_10 34:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:38

Um and then I went for a few interviews, but I didn't really feel at at law firms to now become to practice. To practice, to become uh associate. But I didn't really feel and then I also didn't want to stay at that firm that I was that I did my articles at. And I didn't feel that it was gonna fit in with my lifestyle at the time. So I also started working at Telie Show. That's not weird.

SPEAKER_09 35:07

Maybe was he going to jail? No, I didn't really know.

SPEAKER_08 35:11

She's like, it was Ombuds, she used to work with Ombuds complaints. And she's like, Don't you want to come? So I said, Okay. So who said this? Oh a friend that I studied with. Um so she said, then then I started working at a tele show. What a lovely place to work. We made really but we never met each other.

SPEAKER_05 35:30

That's the same thing. You know, we came out in conversation later that we both work the tele show.

SPEAKER_09 35:35

It's the same Teleshow that I'm thinking about, like on the city. Auto in general and where you call in and then you're like, I got a thing, I got bought this, and can I No, it's um insure, it's an insurance company.

SPEAKER_08 35:47

So you know, auto in general, uh what's the other budget, budget, cosper woman that I think they it's all a group of in it's actually all the same group of insurance companies. And um we worked for the group. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 36:00

And that's where this inseparable No, we never met each other, we still never met. Huh.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

What? Is it that big? Is it all that big? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 36:09

We didn't know where were you? I was in Chicago's. Oh no, I was in the Ombudsman.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Yeah, so you were like the top floor.

SPEAKER_06 36:18

I was on the path floor watching this one.

SPEAKER_09 36:21

Where is Tele Show in town or something?

SPEAKER_06 36:22

It was in Auckland Park.

SPEAKER_08 36:23

At the time it was in Auckland Park, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 36:25

That's where the SABC is, right? Yeah. That's the only thing I know about Auckland Park.

SPEAKER_08 36:30

The metal box is there. But it's what it's point four Stanley, it's it's that building next to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:35

It was that metal box building that had the dangerous ducks in front. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 36:40

And how long were you guys there? When when do you meet then? When do you end up meeting? This is coming.

SPEAKER_08 36:45

It's coming.

SPEAKER_05 36:46

It's a saga. Build up to We met when we both started. When I started at the underwrite, I think I was there already two years. My first time I was in specialist diabilities because for the longest time I had the impression that insurance was only motor household content and those.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:05

Yeah. And I think I winged that because we had to write an assessment, winged it, got the job, and I was there two years, and then one day walks in comes. I still remember what you had on. You had your blue skirt on with blue shoes, and you walk, she walks in to the corner desk, and there were this there was a tower of files. I thought she was gonna walk out.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:25

Because you look like, what did I get into?

SPEAKER_08 37:28

I was confused because pre just prior to that I had been working for a government department where I did like maybe three pieces of work in one year. And then uh then I came a day and I'm like, yeah, I thought she was and I'm sitting there in a corner smiling and like, welcome, welcome. Yeah. So that's where we met. We met at um SHA, which is now Santum Specialist. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 37:49

Wow. And why do you remember that so vividly? It's just a turning point in our life.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Changed my life.

SPEAKER_05 37:58

I have this habit of remembering certain things about people if I meet them. Like I'll still remember like our ex-chairman. Um, I still remember what he wore the first day I ever saw him in the building, and that's like what, 10 years ago. I'll remember certain things about people or the way they sit or what they do in meetings. I'm very observant like that.

SPEAKER_09 38:18

Do you think it helps you in in law? To notice.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

Yeah, it does. I'm fair. I'll notice like the energy, what the person will say, how they move.

SPEAKER_09 38:27

I'm getting more self conscious now as I sit here in the process.

SPEAKER_05 38:30

If someone takes off their sh has a habit of taking off their shoes in meetings, you know, it's like two does that remember. Okay. Yeah. I'll pick up things or or even like sometimes I'll tell you, if we had to do a little skit on who does what, I think it would be a great hit. She does great accents. Yeah. Of HR people. Of a British accent. I'm a bit of a clown sometimes.

SPEAKER_09 38:58

So it does sound like insurance happens almost like naturally, by accident type of thing. And then you just you get into it and you've been doing it ever since.

SPEAKER_05 39:06

Yeah, but I think we love it. Yeah. We discovered a whole new world with specialists, right? That's it's so diverse. It's so interesting. It's like things that are happening live.

SPEAKER_09 39:15

I feel like insurers don't do a good enough job of showing the world how important they are. Um like when I see your stuff on LinkedIn, like you can see these are two people who are like really passionate about their job. But to the general public, insurance is like boring and grudge purchase and what's the point? But it's uh it's actually such an important thing in the world, right? It's a big thing. What what what makes what makes you love it or make you feel like it's great? What do you what fulfills you about it? Yeah? Is it too deep? And are you asking specifically about like medical insurance or who said anything about medical? That's what I'm asking. Like what are you asking about? Because not right now, they're in the moment of their lives where they're working at Tedishaw. So Oh, is it? Oh, we still have Telishaw. Well, that's what I'm asking.

SPEAKER_03 40:07

Yeah, I think we met at SHJ.

SPEAKER_09 40:11

We moved there now when you guys met. But but we fast forwarded much further into the future.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 40:18

So any comments? Any qu any questions? Why do we love it? Yeah, why do you love it? You clearly love it, or is it just all you're faking it?

SPEAKER_06 40:27

Like, I don't think you can fake it to that extent.

SPEAKER_08 40:30

You can't fake it. No. Why we love it, okay. Let me say not. Why we love it is because it's so engaging and it's always evolving and it's always something new. Um, just it's not the same things over and over again. That's the type of insurance that we that that we are into. Every month there's a new innovation. Now with AI in the market, there's so many things to talk about. There's so many aspects of it that we can elaborate on. And I think when you start off in something and you're completely immersed in it, um, to the extent that we are, because you're in a file and you need to know every aspect of the policy, every aspect of the law that relates to that particular claim, every aspect of your client's well-being, every aspect of the lawyer that's acting for you, of the law the loss adjuster. When you're so immersed in it, and then when you see it turn into something else, it's intriguing. It's so intriguing.

SPEAKER_05 41:26

It's the and the strategy and the w the strategic thinking behind it because it's an it's about ecosystems, right?

SPEAKER_10 41:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:32

Because what you do can impact someone in the long run. Like if you don't handle the matter appropriately or in the right way, or you there's leakage on the claim where you spend too much or you undersettle or you do something that's not right, your client will be impacted. So and if your client's impacted financially, where does he get other cover? Maybe say for example, if there's a huge cyber attack and you don't handle that properly and they have to close their doors, then people lose their jobs. So I think with what we do, there's a huge responsibility. But there's like this every day there's a different matter. And even if you had the same matter, sometimes you'll think maybe you need a different strategy. So it keeps you thinking.

SPEAKER_09 42:10

Do you learn a lot about like different people's businesses and jobs and what they do?

SPEAKER_06 42:15

It's so diverse. You'll you have to.

SPEAKER_09 42:18

But then is is that not really difficult now? Or it or you kind of outspeed. You gotta get like an expert witness to come and interpret and give you information.

SPEAKER_08 42:28

You have to. But I mean at the same time, you need to understand it first. Um so if it's an engineering matter, for example, then you would get an engineer to come and tell you what happened. But at the same time, then you have to understand. Like if a crane collapses or something. Like if you put a huge bullboard on your wall, and then if it just collapses. Why didn't this person consider that this is uh the school board is supposed to put too uh too for the water?

SPEAKER_09 42:53

So you get to see all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_05 42:55

Different things. Like you said, the crane collapse and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_09 42:58

Then you do do you guys get to go and visit the yard and all that stuff?

SPEAKER_05 43:01

Yeah, we do. Yeah. Get to see the sites also, and uh and like you know, the when, for example, if something like that happens and you're working, for example, for at an insurer, you're probably thinking, are we on the hook for this? Who who do we insure? Like, I mean, there's been a good few building collapses as well. You want to know which engineer is it, which party is involved, who's your insured. So there's also that scenario planning as well. I like the scenario planning aspect of it, risk management.

SPEAKER_09 43:26

Because insurance sounds boring, but now that we we talk about it, right, you get exposed to all these cool things, different things that are happening.

SPEAKER_08 43:32

It's not boring, especially from a claims perspective, because you think a claims handler is just getting you think of it like if your car was in an accident, then you just gather all the information and you just pay. But it's actually uh can we pause there?

SPEAKER_09 43:46

Yeah. I want to interrupt you because I want to ask Yak, who has no idea. He's a lay person in our own. What do you think a claims handler does yet?

SPEAKER_03 43:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 43:56

Yeah. An insurance claims handler. They're like the antagonist. Those are the people that are working directly against Against you.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 44:05

The the insured the claim. Yeah. Claimants are working. Insured the insured to try and negate the claim as best they possibly can.

SPEAKER_08 44:13

Exactly. So that's the perception. Um but it's not. Um you actually are a person that runs this whole ecosystem where you've got so many stakeholders and you need to make sure that at the end of the day there is a resolution, but the resolution is to everybody's satisfaction. Um I guess you're gonna you're gonna have to say that, right?

SPEAKER_09 44:40

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_08 44:40

I don't have to say that because I don't work for an insurance company.

SPEAKER_09 44:44

But this is why I feel like insurers need to do a better job of explaining their role. You you see, yeah. Let's just say you've got insurance. Can I say oh wait, one second. You don't have to say that, but you also don't want to bring your profession into disrepute disrepute.

SPEAKER_08 44:57

Aaron Powell As a person that brings a lot of things into disrepute and has no qualms about doing so.

unknown 45:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 45:06

I can tell you that that that that's not the state of things. Um people think yes, you're just here to reject claims, but if you're with an insurer that has integrity, and most all of them do have integrity, um there is a valid reason for each and every time that your claim gets rejected. Um and if they and there's so many internal processes, internal dispute resolution processes. If somebody is trying to do you down, somebody's g else is gonna pick it up along the along the night somewhere.

SPEAKER_09 45:36

It sounds very utopian in my opinion.

SPEAKER_05 45:39

And it's also very regulated, right? It's both on TCF, treat customers fairly, those principles. And you've got the ombuds there as well. So if you're not gonna be doing things by the book or you're gonna look for reasons to the first thing we were ever taught, don't ever look for a reason to reject. And I always say when I'm handling a claim, I want to be able to sleep at night. Did I do the right thing? So you have to really apply your mind. You just don't go in with the mindset, oh, we got this here, just want to reject, reject. Because you're not being fair to anybody.

SPEAKER_09 46:06

And what people like Yak will uh don't realize is that there's also insureds who are bad actors, right? Who might be trying to jip on the system. So you have to exercise care in every claim that comes your way to make sure that you're not prejud prejudicing the other insured. Yeah, because all of you guys are paying. You're po you're pulling your risk. You're paying money every month. Not reputational damage. You don't want somebody to abuse the fund. Would you like it? Let's just say you and I are both paying insurance on somet for something, right? And I put in these fraudulent claims all the time, and I benefit from that. But you're paying in you know really diligently, and then the fund just gets depleted because somebody just pays all my claims. Yeah, of course. It wouldn't work. Yeah. No, I mean, look, my my interpretation and statement early on is not absolute. I do know obviously that you guys are doing the due diligence to make sure that there is it's fair.

SPEAKER_08 47:01

But I mean, let's be fair. A lot of people share your things. Yeah, they use it. And I think what not that I try to do is try to highlight the fact to insurance companies that the reason why this sentiment exists is because you do not have claim staff that is that is adequately able to communicate the reason that a claim is rejected. If I ask you why my claim is rejected and you say A B C D throw the book at you, then you're gonna be like, this guy is just relying on his technicality. But if you're able to explain it in a way that a lay person can understand, then they will then they will take it a bit more softly.

SPEAKER_05 47:39

And I think also getting the context, you know, doing the proper investigative work and hearing from both sides and then making a determination. I think that goes a long way. And I think you know, people always have this perception that it's just technical skills, but a lot goes into handling claims. It's also having that empathy. Um the human aspect. Yeah, there's a human being at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_08 48:01

You see a person on their worst day, they're financially ruined because of this incident. And if you're gonna have to be the one to deliver the fact that, you know, you're gonna remain financially ruined because your insurance is not gonna cover you. You need to have some type of um some type of emotional intelligence when you're relaying that decision. Soft skills. Do they train you on this? No, no. That's the thing. And that's why it's lacking, and that's why people have a bad perception of the insurance industry.

SPEAKER_05 48:24

It's it's how you communicate because I know there was a recent um a conference in California where one of the main things was communications. And it also leads to your point about that perception. You know, people have this bad impression of insurers, but it does go down to how you communicate with people, how you manage the process. Imagine just getting a rejection letter without having been taken through the process, because you kind of set an insurer up thinking that the claim is going to be paid, but you need to manage a process. It's managing people, managing if you've appointed service providers, managing them so that they act timelessly. So it's a whole lot of things that you're juggling all in one to make sure that you come to the best possible outcome and be fair to everybody. I think for me the biggest thing is that fairness, knowing that, yes, if it's something that's not covered, you know you've done the work. You can justify exactly how, but everybody has been briefed along the way.

SPEAKER_09 49:13

So how do you get to this like you did this comes with experience, or do you have mentors or people training you, or how does it work in the industry? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:24

I think it's a combo of uh it's a combo, I think. I think when we started off, right? Um, I know when I started off SAJA, I I was very lucky that I had a manager that would if I didn't know something, and as dumb as I sounded, she was willing to show me something. And I remember the one example of a product inefficacy claim type example is something I'll remember for life. Like she took a punch and she said, Okay, you're not getting for the life of me, I couldn't understand what product inefficacy was, right? Um, and that's when a product is rendered less of a of a lesser financial value. So she took the punch. She took, you know, that back piece of the punch?

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The plastic cover off.

SPEAKER_05 50:04

Yeah, the plastic cover off.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:05

So she said, Okay, this part you can still use it, right? But you're not going to get the same price for it. And that was such a practical example. So along the way, there have been people I found that were willing to impart that knowledge. And there have been people that I know don't like to impart knowledge. It just depends.

SPEAKER_09 50:21

Where you are. Yeah. If you're lucky.

SPEAKER_05 50:23

So But a lot of it was on the ground. You know, starting from the back of the file, reading the policy, reading about who your insured was, getting to know what they do.

SPEAKER_09 50:35

But don't you also have to like not be concerned about making yourself look stupid? Because you've got to ask questions, right? You could easily sit in a corner and just not learn.

SPEAKER_05 50:46

You have to ask. You have to put whatever ego, whatever it is, feeling shy or embarrassed aside and ask the questions. Rather ask, then you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 50:55

And make yeah, potentially make yourself look stupid, but at least you're asking and Yeah, then you know. And hopefully somebody can help you if they don't want to, then it's that's probably not the right place to be anyway.

SPEAKER_03 51:04

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 51:06

And this in the podcast thing? Where does that come?

SPEAKER_08 51:10

So I think we write a lot of articles. Yeah. And you see that we post a lot of things on on LinkedIn. Um But I think at the beginning of this year, I just said to Nadia, well, she had said to me um a long time ago, we should become insurance celebrities. And I had said, There's no such thing as an insurance celebrity. I said, There's no such She's like, Well, Desmond Dubay is an insurance celebration. Okay, yeah. She said she's like, we should make insurance sexy and become an insurance celebrity. I'm like, Nadia, please.

SPEAKER_09 51:43

And then Nadia, you already are.

SPEAKER_08 51:46

It's just like, don't listen to the point. At the beginning of this year, I just said, I'm so tired of writing these articles. How do I know that anybody's even reading these articles? And what format. Yes. How can we do this in a way that is more engaging? Because as you know, in our industry there's a huge skills gap. Yeah. And why is that knowledge not being passed down? Maybe it's the medium that we're trying to pass down the knowledge via that it's it's not resonating with the generations of today. So that's how we I said, let's just go with your idea and do a podcast and talk about it.

SPEAKER_09 52:19

So whose idea was a podcast?

SPEAKER_08 52:21

It was her idea first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 52:22

But everybody's having got a podcast these days. So it's it's a natural thing to do. But it's it's cool that you chose this topic.

SPEAKER_05 52:30

I think it was the right time. I think we just needed that alignment. And I'm a big believer, everything happens at the right time.

SPEAKER_08 52:36

And I think we're just ready for us to do it. We were having these conversations anyway. So in our when we were in 95, um, we were probably work nine to eleven and then the rest of the time we'd sort of in the coffee shop and um and and talk. And I think those conversations just opened up other people should hear these things because there were so many ideas that could be always actions. Um and yeah, we just wanted to engage more.

SPEAKER_09 53:03

So I haven't listened to have you listened to any of the episodes. Yeah. So what is it like? Like you talk about case studies or we talk about everything and everything.

SPEAKER_08 53:11

So we talk about case studies, we talk about Are you allowed to? Yeah. It's in the public debate. Yeah. We s we spoke about case studies, we speak about um technical policy wording disputes, we talk about claims handling, how what's the best practice in claims handling? We talk about mental health, we talk about everything. We talk about mental health.

SPEAKER_09 53:33

But because you've targeted the audience, as in clients or the whole insurance community.

SPEAKER_05 53:40

Because it's quite diverse, because you've got the brokers and then you've got insurers, underwriters, attorneys, source adjustments.

SPEAKER_09 53:48

But isn't that the cool thing about a podcast, right? You can just put whatever you want out there, and as long as you're not harming anyone.

SPEAKER_05 53:53

Yeah, that's the thing. As long as it's legal and compliant, I always say just go for it.

SPEAKER_09 53:58

Yeah. But we still get trolls, even though we're not harming anyone. We get trolls big time. Big time. Especially with the recent shorts. Have you guys started doing shorts yet? No. Who's the technical person in the in the duo here?

SPEAKER_06 54:12

Not yeah. Not yeah.

SPEAKER_09 54:13

Who edits and and idea. Can we can we get like super like you don't mind?

SPEAKER_05 54:19

No, we don't.

SPEAKER_09 54:20

So what like what equipment are you using and things like that?

SPEAKER_05 54:22

Oh, we just use the cell phone. Yeah. An app. Like an iPhone or an iPhone, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 54:27

Yeah. And one. One iPhone. And and what iPhone one?

SPEAKER_03 54:31

Oh what? No. Oh no. A single iPhone. A single iPhone.

SPEAKER_02 54:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 54:43

How many will be drawing? The court artist. Yeah. Uh so you use a single iPhone.

SPEAKER_05 54:50

Yeah. Yeah, we've got these little lavalier mics that we've got. Now we've upgraded to a four piece in case we have guests. So we're excited about that.

SPEAKER_09 55:00

And and what software to edit?

SPEAKER_05 55:02

I use an app called Detail.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 55:06

Okay. And uh have you been getting any feedback about the podcast?

SPEAKER_03 55:11

Happy and anywhere. What do you share it with? Yeah. We share it with everybody. It's on your YouTube. Yeah. Statuses. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 55:18

And it's it's monetized yet? No.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

Not yet.

SPEAKER_09 55:21

Not yet. What's uh you it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 55:23

We're sending it out to the universe.

SPEAKER_09 55:25

How though? Yeah, the yeah. How are we gonna make money?

SPEAKER_07 55:29

How are we gonna make money?

SPEAKER_09 55:31

How are we gonna start making money on these things?

SPEAKER_07 55:33

We're going to.

SPEAKER_05 55:34

Somebody's gonna say, people have talent, they have a lot to say, they're the right fit. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna sponsor them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 55:41

Okay, so it's partnerships and stuff. Brands, so they've thought about it. Yeah. That's what I'm asking. I'm I'm having an open discussion. I thought they had they wouldn't have thought about it yet.

SPEAKER_05 55:50

Because we always think of these things. Like and and I know sometimes I have outrageous ideas in my head. I'm thinking I'm gonna get an Adidas deal one day. I'm gonna do all the waste of Adidas, you know, because I love the brand so much. So but I always think, you know, something can happen. You could just put your mind to it. And I mean, I know we're still figuring it out in terms of tech and stuff, but it's been so exciting. It's been something that's really got us so excited. Because it's things that we never did ourselves. I mean, to set up things and look up and search for things that we need. I never thought I'd be getting so exciting about the tech and learning how to do this thing. So it's been it's very creative. And it's you know what, we see it as reflecting our journey of how we started off. Okay, maybe we got the ending wrong. Next one we'll learn from this and that. But it's reflecting our own personal journeys as well as we grow into this entrepreneurship role as well.

SPEAKER_09 56:41

So it's a very I love that approach, that edit. It's like it's a learning curve. We'll just learn as we go and figure it out.

SPEAKER_08 56:47

The important thing is what we say at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 56:50

And just don't, yeah. And I think it sounds like she's the PR person for the for the marketing.

SPEAKER_05 56:55

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 56:57

Which platform? Just YouTube.

SPEAKER_05 56:59

For now, yeah. Yeah. Instagram. Yeah, and then we're just on other social media pages like Instagram, TikTok.

SPEAKER_09 57:06

Yeah. And are you open to uh unsolicited comments from me or other people about it? Can I give some some feedback?

SPEAKER_08 57:19

On what? On the technical stuff or the or the actual content of the podcast? Yeah, but not the content.

SPEAKER_09 57:24

On the technical.

SPEAKER_05 57:28

You know what? I knew when I was getting into this, we're probably gonna get the feedback. So, like I said, it's a learning experience. Yeah, I'm gonna do that. And the thing is, you might have a closed mind.

SPEAKER_09 57:37

It's so funny because somebody I met somebody two two days ago, and the first thing they said to me is, Yesha, I want to give you feedback on the podcast. I was like, ah, I don't want to hear.

SPEAKER_05 57:46

I mean, sometimes you feel like it's a bit scary, like you know, people are thinking this, but you know, we put ourselves out there, right? And we know we're gonna get feedback, or we're probably gonna get people that that are gonna feel it's for them or it's not for them.

SPEAKER_09 57:59

So it's L no, let me give you a really cool tip that I wish more people care. There's a thing called orphonic. Yeah. I'll tell I'll send you the thing afterwards, right? So what it does, so you see these mics I'm using, right?

SPEAKER_02 58:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 58:11

You've also got similar-ish mics, right? Once you plug the audio into this thing called orphonic, it makes it sound like a studio.

SPEAKER_06 58:21

Yeah. We need that. You really need that.

SPEAKER_09 58:23

That's what like and the most important thing about even uh video podcasts is the sound quality.

SPEAKER_04 58:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_09 58:32

Like that's what I've learned, because I've been researching podcasts, right? And apparently like people will switch if your video quality is a bit poor, people will still watch if the audio sounds okay. Yeah. But as soon as it's like they'll switch off. Yeah. And I'm telling you, Auphonic made a huge difference for us. I'll send you the thing. You can get like two hours free, two hours worth. Um and that's what I used to use. Um, but now because we do more than two hours a month, I'm paying like $12 a month or $10 a month. That's not bad at all. It it really is a game changer. I'm telling you. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_09 59:05

What was a comment that someone tried to give you the other day? I never got the chance to ask them because then they said they'll tell me later because they saw my reaction when I said, Ah, I don't want feedback.

SPEAKER_04 59:14

Taken aback.

SPEAKER_09 59:15

Even though I claim on this podcast that I really want feedback and everything. At the end of the day, we're humans also.

SPEAKER_08 59:21

I mean, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_09 59:21

So you don't want to hear anything negative about it.

SPEAKER_08 59:23

People pinch us a little. But I don't think anything negative. You're just so professional. I mean your podcast.

SPEAKER_09 59:29

Okay, thank you. I'm wearing my scrub cap today for my day job. No, people people always c comment on his hair. Oh, you're here. Um, once you start uh yeah. And are you guys gonna advertise and stuff?

SPEAKER_06 59:47

We haven't thought about it. Yeah, that's what, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 59:50

Yeah, because I mean you can have to spread the word about the podcast, right? And how niche is it? Like are there are there other people doing this in your field?

SPEAKER_08 59:57

Well, the only ones. Yeah. It's very niche, yeah. Yeah. Very, very niche.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:01

So yeah, that's that's something interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:03

It's basically like we wanted to make it about our experience and how we see things and our thoughts around things happening in that space. Yeah. And it's a bit unfolded. Like we're quite yeah. We're quite open with our views. Like I said, as long as it's legal and compliant and Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:22

But then I mean you obviously you're attorneys, like would you you do have like disclaimers and stuff that these are these are not your views. Like if our own views.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:33

So our podcast has only been me and Nadia. The first time we've had guests was this week.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:38

Yeah. No, but I mean like with case studies and stuff. Like someone came and I I'm interested in the case studies. I hope we get to talk about it.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:44

So in So the case studies, we don't actually talk about what the case said. We talk about what we feel about the the judgment. Or how we feel could have been better, or it could have been done.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:54

Can you give me an example, like the most recent one you remember?

SPEAKER_08 1:00:57

Which one was that one that did that one in the medical effect is damages? Um it was a case where it was a state a case against a state where um so you know, if you sue a doctor or a hospital, then you get a large and if you win, then you get a lump sum. Yeah. And uh you use that lump sum for the rest of your life because it includes future medical expenses in that lump sum and it includes future loss of earnings if you were like a kid, for example, uh or even if you're an adult, it includes all those kind of heads of damages, they call them. So this case, um, they did award in favor of the plaintiff, but they had asked for the state had asked rather than to give that lump sum to award the damages in kind. Yeah. Not in kind okay, uh that's not true. Well, that's what the term is, right? In kind. To say um rather than give you a lump sum, we will give you access to a physiotherapist or we will give you access to um AIDS. Um what do you call those? Yes, whatever treatment that you need. Yes, or whatever the case is. Or if you needed this person had a brain injury because it's a cerebral bully baby. And then they needed hearing aids and visual aids and all of those type of things. So they said, rather than give you a lump sum to go forth and do whatever you want to with it, we're going to give you uh we we are playing to get um damages inkite.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:31

So those unfair and responsible at the same time.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:33

Yes, exactly. Yeah. So um so then the plaintiff had come back and said, No, we don't want you to give first of all, you were the person that made the mistake, the slate. So now we're supposed to rely on you for the rest of our kids' life to continue to give us treatment when we were not happy with it in the first place. Um So the court did go to Supreme Court, Supreme Court. Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court said, um, you cannot give a person damages in kind, you have to give them the the money. So that that case was kind of trying to change the landscape of how damages are awarded because traditionally damages were only ever given in kind. And Nadia is a midmail expert, so I'm not really sure why I'm talking about it.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:15

But do you guys record it in one shot or do you No, we break it up.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:19

Yeah, break it up. We thought it was easier to do it that way.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:21

It's more work for you, right? Who's doing the editing? Um not it's Nadia, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

It's a lot worse.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:25

Isn't that work? No, but Isn't that extra work? I I my goal with this show is always get it in one shot. Because that editing takes time.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:34

Oh, so why didn't you say so? But I actually enjoy it, right? Yeah, I've actually been enjoying this because I see it as this part of my learning journey this year, getting more tech heavy and putting it in. But it puts it easier for you. No, you can put yeah, segments is easier, right? So it's easier to edit it that way, right? But it's still, you know, because you have to go through it and double check. And if you're doing the what do you call that?

SPEAKER_09 1:03:57

Somebody drops an F-bomb or anything. Yeah, you just have to like the sworn like not yet.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:02

No, we haven't, surprisingly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:04

We we had uh guests drop F-bombs and stuff. I had to cut it out. Uh yeah, then I had to learn how to beep things. Yeah. Because you also don't want to cut out things. Sometimes you need to have emphasis. Yeah. Yeah. For emphasis for authenticity, for all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:17

That's the thing, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:04:18

But I also don't want to get um like I don't want YouTube to like cancel my account or something. I don't know what happens. I really don't. It's a great learning experience. It is.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:26

That's why I actually enjoy the editing because then I'll be looking at how do I edit this or remove something in the background and like so I see it as more like when you upload it to YouTube, they check it before they post it.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:36

Or is it just YouTube? They say to me, I'm checking your thing.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:39

No, you're checking nothing.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:40

Oh, so why would you be waiting so long? They're like 25% checking. You've been pranked.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:47

YouTube does its processing and all that stuff, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:04:49

But then it says checking your content. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:52

But but because what it does is it automatically transcribes everything that's said. So it knows the AI knows if you've dropped F-bombs and stuff. Yeah. But it it doesn't like check you gotta check before you post. Trust me. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:07

Well that you tell them.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:14

Yeah, because you do you the if you click publish, it can say publish, and then there's a risk that they might later on find there's a problem and then Oh, do they say that?

SPEAKER_07 1:05:22

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:26

We simply got monetized also. So because we hit a thousand subscribers. Yeah. Like what two weeks ago or something.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:34

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:35

Thank you. But it's like yeah, we're not rolling in it yet. But when you when you get monetized, then there's another check which happens when you're uploading the video.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:44

Which is like there's a thing which says, are there any of these things mentioned in your thing in your episode? And then you've got to like click submit and I confirm. But even later on, the the AI can find uh can determine that you've lied and then it doesn't Trust you anymore. It's all interesting.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:02

So, what are your tips for getting to a thousand subscribers? How do we get there?

SPEAKER_09 1:06:06

Consistency. Yeah. Like you've got a niche. Play to the niche because niches are important things. I researched a lot of stuff before I started. And niches are really good because you get like a really um strong community of people that are really interested. So sometimes it's not about broad reach, it's about the quality of your viewer. And the most important thing that all these guys say and girls say is consistency. Yeah. Like you've got to go for like at least a year or two.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:38

Keep at it. Keep at it. And then improve as you go on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:41

And how old are you guys? No? What do you mean? The podcasts. I'll never ask that. Come on. She did it on purpose. No. No, that's how much I would not ask that question.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:54

Yeah. Really old. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:58

Four months.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:58

We start in January. On the 6th of January, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:07:02

That's new. Super sweet. Yeah, so it's all new, but like So how do you guys know each other then? How do you guys know each other then?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

We used to work together.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:10

Together.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:10

Oh, yeah. Where? I used to work at a law firm and they worked at insur at uh I2, I can say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:17

They used to do work for two meters bus.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:20

Oh, you guys used to subcontractor. We were the client, yeah. Okay. They were my they were our clients, yeah. My client. Was I I was okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:28

Yeah, you were cool. Got my stuff sorted out. Really? You were great. You should go back into.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:33

You think so? Yeah. I could never, eh?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:35

Why? It's too constricted.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:37

Would you guys ever go back to like practice? A law firm. But to a law firm. No.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:41

I think I'm too much of like free. I like my freedom. I'm just like.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:45

But it's changing, I think. We see the we see it from what it used to be, where everybody used to be in these suits and ties. It's a lot more relaxing. Only want to talk about boarding things. It's changing now.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:56

That's fine. All that has changed, but being a a l an attorney, practicing attorney, has it. Like they're still working all the time. Yeah, that's true. Having to like answer to the clients. Or like yesterday I wanted to tell our one of our panel attorneys, I wanted to say to the guy, okay, please, I hope you have some rest this weekend. Because he's emailing me at like 7 p.m. on a Friday night. And I could I remember how I used to be.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:17

That person I don't like late-night emails from people. No. I used that used to make me like cringe.

SPEAKER_09 1:08:24

But now wait back to me. So I was okay. I was good.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:26

Great.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:27

You were amazing.

SPEAKER_09 1:08:28

I got some I got not every client in the same way.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:31

Just send us that letter that you have a point of.

SPEAKER_09 1:08:34

I made that UNISA. It's a real name. But canals, what is it that you guys do now, like work-wise?

SPEAKER_08 1:08:44

Uh so we have a um claims outsource company. So we um insurance and broke insurers and brokers outsource their claims handling to us. So because we do such a niche area of claims, there's not a lot of skills in the market. So if there's a certain book um that they need expertise on, they let us handle on their behalf. Then we also do training of claim staff and what else? What's the risk management? Risk management.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:11

Because I want to ask, like, okay, you said it's a very niche environment, but I I'm not understanding how there's a whole d department that doesn't exist at like one of the big five that do exactly what you guys do. Why would a client want to come to you guys?

unknown 1:09:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:26

Which is relatively smaller as opposed to one of the big five?

SPEAKER_08 1:09:30

Because it's a risk to keep an in-house claims department. Um, especially in an area where there is so much of a skills gap. Yeah. Um so if you train up someone, um, it's very likely that that person can jump ship and go to another insurance company. So you've invested everything in that person and now they're going to leave, and then you are stuck at square one. And it's such a high-stakes portfolio. So you've got matters that are in the billions, right? And you uh you can't afford to get a junior person to come in now and handle those matters with no experience and no um technical knowledge and no soft skills, etc. Um, it's so uh they're gonna your client is gonna take their business away just because of the way that you handle that claim. So it's the risk. The in-house claims department is a huge risk. Um and I think slowly but surely we are embarking on this journey of convincing the market that it doesn't make sense to keep your claims in-house anymore. I mean, um a lot of insurers that deal with kind of personal lines like your your cars and your houses, et cetera, they outsource their claims handling to other companies. Um, the only reason it's not done with specialist lines is because there's no skill. Yeah. But now there is.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:49

So what I'm getting is it's just you two in the company.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:52

Yeah. You don't have any other stuff. Back together. Back together again. We're very capable.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:57

Okay. And then you probably only because it's just you two, you're handling like one or two matters a month, not like taking in any everything that you can get.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:05

No, we take it everything that we can.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:07

So when we were when we were in insurance companies, we were dealing with portfolios of like a thousand matters a month on our own, not not as a not as a team, as an individual, you're dealing with a thousand matches a month. So once you get to our advanced age, it's very easy to deal with a lot more than that.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:26

I think also it comes down to having that structure in the way you deal with things, also your time management and also the skill and expertise. That makes it so much easier. Because already when you're looking at a matter, you'll already know, okay, this relates to this, and you need to look at this and you know. Well, you need this type of information.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:41

When you have that experience and you can handle things.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:44

That sounds for me, that sounds like super risky. Because I can't even read two books concurrently if I I'll confuse characters and things like that. But I don't understand. Like, you guys like make notes, and once you go through a meta, do you make notes and summarize and then when you pick it up again, you it's quite a file, yeah?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:00

Yeah. You make your notes, you read, you get your information, and it's it's such a nice because you're like putting a piece of the puzzle together to get the outcome as well.

SPEAKER_09 1:12:09

But I get the ex question because like dealing with a m many things at one time, I find difficult also like my mind's not good at it, and you have to read in and remind yourself. And and I spoke to one of these senior advocates a while ago, and he said that's why he could never be an attorney. He enjoys being an advocate because he's handling one or two.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:25

One thing at a time. Yeah. No, that's not us. We can handle multiple things at a time. Get excited about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you must enjoy the reading. You must someone once told me, a f a colleague that I worked with, with claims you'll I it'll either be for you, something for you, or it's something you'll involve. You'll never get here. So it comes with the reading, it comes with that analytical ability, you know, that judgment, a lot of judgment as well. So how's it going?

SPEAKER_09 1:12:54

Independent.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:55

It's exciting.

SPEAKER_09 1:12:57

These guys are passionate, man, about what's it? But it's scary.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:00

It's a bit scary.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:02

You know, sometimes you think like it is scary to be a business owner. Yeah. After you come from the cushion of corporate. Yes. Um, you don't know where your next uh meal is coming from. Yeah. Uh but it's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:14

But isn't like corporate also has community, also, right? There's other people around. Now you're sort of isolated.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:20

Isolated, yeah. Yeah. I think that's what we missed. Because we did a lot of um mentorship and coaching when we were in corporate and I kind of tried to bring up the new generation. So that's a lot of what we missed. But we'll get there as the business grows, we'll we'll get there.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:34

Because we see this as like a new journey. I think also sometimes you out either outgrow a space or you just feel like there's something new that you need.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:40

And it's not just about outgrowing a space, it's about trying to change the way things are traditionally done. Because if things are done traditionally for too for too long, it's to the advantage of someone, right? Yeah um and to the disadvantage of a lot of other people. So when you're in a corporate structure and you you spot those things, it's uh I think it's our well, we went over it, so we're very we're not radical. Yeah. So um change the world. It's for us to to take the responsibility to change things for the generations to come and change those structures so that they cater for everybody and not just few.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:16

But can I talk about like one aspect of the environment for you guys, including him as well, that's changing here in South Africa. And I I don't mean to talk about it because it's a bit of a sad uh topic. And we're very pro-South African. But you know, recently there was like this attorney that was that was killed. Yeah, yes, I saw that. Are you not afraid of that sort of stuff? Because at the beginning, when he asked me, like, what's my interpretation of what you guys do? And I said, You guys are antagonists. So you know, you hear you come onto my property to try and tell me why my wall fell down. And I'm like, I I built that shit, like you should have been there.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:52

You built the wall.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:53

No, I didn't, I didn't.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:54

I did not build engineering conversation.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:57

I did do engineering. Anyways, um, but it's it's scary because people are getting more violent. Like you would think that people with common sense and with the reserve uh would apply you know, you know, a courtesy that these people are professionals. They've got nothing to do with the outcome of the situation. But uh as we're seeing now with all of these like hits on people and stuff, it's it's getting scary out there.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:24

It is scary, especially I think for that in that specific instance and as well as for whistleblowers. Uh you see so many whistleblowers that are being exterminated or eliminated. Taken out from the game. And um it is, but I mean you have to somebody has to take a stand.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:44

Yeah, I mean and I mean it's you're doing what you love. And I always say if you do it with align with your values and integrity, I mean Yeah, but it's amazing what people would do for money.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:53

Yeah. They go to any length, so never.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:57

You guys have families, I'm assuming you've got partners and kids to spoke about. Yes, I have kids.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:04

I have three children, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:06

Um where do you find time for all of this?

SPEAKER_08 1:16:09

Well, I have a lot more time now than I used to have when I was working at a job because you had to be there the entire time. Um I think that's also partly why I left my corporate career, because I wanted to spend more time with my kids. How old are they?

SPEAKER_09 1:16:23

Um I'm allowed to ask that question.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:25

Oh, is it?

SPEAKER_09 1:16:26

No, you're not.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:26

No ages.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:27

Am I not allowed to?

SPEAKER_08 1:16:29

Uh they are nine. My eldest is nine and my middle is six and my baby is one.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:35

Okay. So then you can outsource work to the nine-year-old and be like, read this and come tell me.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:39

No, I mean if I feel like if my child has to go into a corporate career, then I would have failed at life. So she or any of them. High expectations. No, they need to just do something, follow what they they want to do.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:54

They're not gonna work. I've got a six-year-old. They they're they're not gonna have jobs.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:57

They they're not gonna have jobs, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:59

All of us are not gonna work.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:00

Yeah, we all so what are we gonna do?

SPEAKER_09 1:17:03

Speaking of outsourcing, I mean AI, how is that? Is it helping?

SPEAKER_08 1:17:06

It does. We use AI a lot. We love AI. We love AI, it makes it a lot easier. I mean, there's the podcast, especially. Yeah. I mean, we did a whole episode on Yeah, we've done that. But AI and insurance.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:18

But I think it's an interesting time for insurers as well in terms of the risk and also now with the policy implementation and all of that. So it's gonna be an interesting space to navigate. Because it does come with the risk, but I mean it has come with benefits. And I think there's a lot of misconceptions about the AI itself.

SPEAKER_09 1:17:33

And there's so many unknowns, right? Yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:36

So we're seeing a lot of insurers that are using um AI to do policy interpretation. Yeah. And it's getting it wrong on multiple levels. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:46

Still, no, even Because remember, policy interpretation requires that actual judgment, human judgment, I feel.

SPEAKER_09 1:17:53

You think so? I I don't I I'm I'm on the other side. Yeah, I feel like eventually once these things are well trained enough, they'll be better than us. That's just me.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:02

When you get to that point, but you the person that's training the AI needs to have that skill, right? If you're gonna have someone that doesn't have the technical skill, then you're feeling something that's incorrect.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:12

Are you using AI for the podcast in any way?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:14

Like, yeah. How do you say a lot?

SPEAKER_09 1:18:16

How do you do it? Like give an example. Uh let me give you an example of how I use it, right? So after I upload the interview onto YouTube, YouTube auto-generates a transcript, you know, based on what it's hearing. So it gets a lot wrong. But anyway, all I do is I take that transcript, plug it into Claude, and I say, Claude, do a YouTube um title and description for me. And it does it in like 10 minutes, uh five minutes. And then I just make sure I fact check or sometimes send it to the guests. But it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:44

I could never it would have taken too much of that.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:47

Yes. And then Opus. That's another one. Oh, yeah. Have you heard of Opus? Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. The whole YouTube video gets fed into this opus thing and it cuts up shots. All those shorts that you see on Instagram stuff. But I think for them at the moment, it's it's easier to like you wouldn't need to apply this that much. Because we have guests and we've got to like do backgrounds. I mean, we're longer form. What's the longest episode of We've done an hour? An hour, yeah. Would you have the shortest? Would you have guests? Would you want to have guests on the show?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:14

Yeah, oh, who is it?

SPEAKER_09 1:19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:16

Denise, Denis.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:18

Denise is a company, it's not a guy. Law family.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:21

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's attorneys from the two attorney.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:24

Attorneys funding. Yeah, but you know, and Kriyanka. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't watched it. What do they talk about?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:29

Classic. Class, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:32

Oh, that's a collective of people, like amount of people trying to shoot for a comment. So it's four lawyers sitting together talking. It's like almost like this. No way, this is video.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:43

Yeah, but it was lovely. It was nice. You have us on your show. We would. Definitely we would. Because we we like it.

unknown 1:19:50

Really?

SPEAKER_08 1:19:51

Yeah, you are gonna watch on that.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:53

According to the other guy that interviewed. Like, yeah. Apparently there's a big there's uh lots of insurance scams happening on um on Everest. So you know you had glossed four fingers, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:20:03

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:04

Or you told when I went to the bathroom. And there's apparently there's a big thing now where it's for emergency evacuations where the what are all those guys that help you up, the Sherpas are telling people that they need to be emer evacuated by helicopter and it's all just to make money for church. Oh yeah, well they're not telling them. They basically the the story is that they're putting baking soda in their food. So they get them sick enough to know that they're debilitated to be able to not get down off the mountain themselves. But not to like kill them.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:37

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:38

But it's um just to claim for the for the claim, yeah. So the but then you're they're in cahoots with now with the with the helicopter rescue companies. Allegedly.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:46

This is what it's alleged, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:48

I I don't think that's there's any anyway, let's talk about some other time on your show. Yeah. Did you get your claim got paid or rejected? Is that why you have an issue with insurance? I don't know. I don't have an issue with the insurance. No, my claim got paid. My claim is my life. That was the payment to get off the mountain. So that was my what I was insured for to be able to get off the mountain. I'm talking about the fingers though. Oh no, that's a whole separate insurance. But you can't ask me that. Oh, god. No comment.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:24

Were you? Will you? I'd love to talk about that. What could you say? No, I do it. We'll give them some clickbait to talk about. Yes, take it.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:31

Yeah, okay, okay. So next week they can find it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:34

And where do you guys shoot? Where's your um location?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:38

We call the roaming podcasters because we Oh the guy's house.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:43

Yeah. Well at Denise we should at Tine. Yeah. Okay. Um but otherwise we shoot at my house. Yeah. Yeah. We find different locations. Yeah, we change it up about why it's a garden.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:56

Oh yeah, that's funny.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:58

How do you get work? Like, how do you market yourself? Yeah, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:03

Sorry to like just do aggressive sales tactics. Yeah. Um, but we, you know, very close-knit um community. Yeah. And we've had a lot of support, um, we have to say. I mean, with the podcast and with the business as well. Yeah. I'm talking about business. Yeah, yeah. That's how we that's how we get it. So because we've been in the industry for so many years and we've made so many connections, that's how we it's like a testament to building a good network, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:22:34

Yeah. You've got to have that.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:35

And sometimes you actually get support from the most unexpected posting cases. Yeah. So I think also when you're on LinkedIn or people actually notice what you do.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:45

And they reach out and they want to collaborate or they want to hear what you have to offer. So yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:22:50

It's really cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:51

So sometimes people say, Why are you posting? I'm like, you know what? When you go, someone will see it. It's a good thing. Yeah, like you'll get some people. I don't know. I was talking to someone a while back and they're like, you post a lot. I was like, yeah, but it it's what I love doing, right? Because I like to share knowledge. And if there's an interesting topic, if I hear about something, I like to be the first on the dial with that. You know, share that information, get that information. Because everybody benefits from it, right? You don't want to be a dinosaur and keep the information for yourself.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:18

And yeah. I can relate to this. You I post a lot on LinkedIn also. But I know that there's probably lots of people out there that are like, oh, look at this guy, he's always posting. I know some of my colleagues even have a tick at me. Yeah. Jokingly. Jokingly.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:31

Yeah, well I'm like.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:32

Yesterday was the first time I actually felt this way. Like I I don't post a lot, but I post like very authentic stuff that is mine. But recently I did this other like podcast for it's it's a f for a big um IT shopping brand. And um I signed the the release forms and everything, but I didn't know that they went live with it. So I was walking, I went to buy an Ethernet cable. IT shopping brand. What's this? Named after a jungle. Oh, kinda. As an information technology. Right. Oh. But it's a it's a big brand, like the most popular one. But and I was walking in the mall, and then I I actually saw my face through the window. It was in this thing. And I was like, what the hell? These guys went live with it, and they didn't even tell me. And I went there and I took a photo and I was thinking, oh, should I post about it? Before I even did that, someone sent me a picture of myself in another store and asked me. The question was, uh, do you like being so overexposed like this? Yeah, that's hecking. And I was like, that's such a loaded question. Like I felt bad. It made me feel bad about actually wanting to post about this. And I didn't. It I let it get to me.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:38

No, you mustn't. No, you must. Yeah. Just yeah. I mean, as I can always say, as long as it's legal and compliant, you're not.

SPEAKER_09 1:24:45

Yeah, I think we're all on the same page. Yeah, we understand that there are people that also would probably think that we overdo it, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:51

But also maybe it's like you're encouraging someone that's a bit shy, that has something to say, but then they have this insecurity about saying, so it's a way of encouraging someone else to say, you know what, you can also have your view.

SPEAKER_09 1:25:01

No, but yeah, but then again, see, that's utopian. Like that would be uh the best case scenario for us. But I think some people think that, oh, this guy thinks it's he's so egocentric.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:25:12

Like he just wants to like see himself or like whatever it is. What would you say to those people?

SPEAKER_05 1:25:18

But I was watching this Dr. Priya the other day. Um, I was actually I'll I can't remember son. I mean, she was talking about something like this, about what people think, and she just says, she put it so beautifully, you shouldn't care about the exogenous commentary of everybody else.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:32

But it's hard to be human, right? It does, because when someone says something, it can eat at you. But I think sometimes, you know, you can't control what others think of you, right? So true. And are you gonna limit yourself? Are you not gonna be yourself because of what other people expect you to be or expect you to do? How do you love? Yeah, because they have too much of this free will type of mindset. Like, do you be?

SPEAKER_08 1:25:53

I would say, what is then your regret? Would you have regretted not doing it and staying in your little comfort comfort zone? For the sake of what is appeasing or would you be and doesn't have to be able to do that. Exactly. Or do you regret actually being out there?

SPEAKER_09 1:26:08

Yeah, no, not at all. Exactly. Never regret. But then you know when these trolls come and like say things online and things like instantaneously, you feel that way. That's the nature of who we are. Yeah. But then it's just irritating. Irritating that people have the the liberty in the first place to want to come and just say whatever they want. Whatever they feel like.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:30

But it's like keyboard gangsters. They're anonymous so they can say whatever they feel like.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:35

And you can never have control over who says what or who does what. I mean, like you'll never please everybody. I love print on print, right? And I know some people hate print on print. What's that? Just like so close. Okay, so I'm quite animated with my dress traces at times. And it's a lot for people. But I'm just like, you know what, I like it. If I want to wear a cow print pants, I will wear cow print pants.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:59

With a matching up uh pattern and then another pattern at the bottom of it. Yeah, like stripes in model. Why not? Walking into work at 8 a.m. and you see this person and me.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:15

No, you mentioned you were shy like back in the day. Yeah, were you No, but not with my dress.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:20

Okay, no addressing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:21

I was gonna ask, yeah.

unknown 1:27:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:23

I think maybe that's my uh way to extract my artistic side.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:28

Very cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:30

Okay, well, yeah, I hope the business goes from strength to strength. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:34

Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:35

Have no doubts that it will. Is there anything else that we didn't talk about? Did you guys want to talk about or have we covered everything?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:41

I didn't cover anything.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:42

You got any questions for Yak? Are you gonna save it for your your own?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:47

We're gonna control you. Yeah. Be ready for us.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:50

Sign me send him the release form. No, I'll do nothing. Yak is so difficult to get a hold of very like. What the fuck were you saying now? He wasn't responding in the group, but I respond to important things.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:12

I'm glad you said it because most people will be too polite to say that. Yeah. It's so bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:18

No, but maybe it's just busy, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:28:20

We are all busy, no. We are all busy.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:22

No, but the busiest people respond fast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:25

Really? Yeah, yeah, it's too cool.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:27

It's psychology, no, because you know that you are so busy. If I don't respond to this person now, you're gonna forget about it. And also the opportunity. No, go ahead, go ahead. Yes, busiest people um realize the importance of prioritization.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:43

That's such an absolute statement. Like what like if you are to understand my world, right? Or let's just say someone that works with their hands. Yeah. I get a message or comes on to my watch, but I'm doing a procedure that's like two hours long.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:55

It takes it's gonna have the next opportunity for me to respond is two hours later. But I've got eight guest groups now that are all responding at the same time. But then in between, I've got like 15 minutes between patients or like whatever else that I'm doing that I need to do, then go and respond. But it all gets accumulative throughout the day. Okay. And then I've got to go and prioritize at the end of the show.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:16

Like how many seconds to uh to say thanks? Yes. Yes. Okay, see you soon.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:22

Even if it takes one second, like how do we quantify?

SPEAKER_08 1:29:25

How many seconds are you in 15 minutes? Maybe you take it.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:31

Maybe you need to have like time loss. You have a shelter time in the day.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:35

But hello, if he's got time to read the message, then he's got time to say this. I do.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:43

You do. I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:46

You guys sound like your inbox is like on zero. I have a yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:51

Zero inbox. You could not understand how some people can have like thousands of mails in their mailbox.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:57

Chick is look at yikes. Look at those chats. It's 878. 87800. That's a common thing. I'm setting it on a podcast where like two hours that people have been messing with. No, I think some he thinks it's probably cool to ignore people. That's what I think. No, that's what I think. I think so, yeah. He likes to give them away.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:13

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:16

No, there's important things I need to respond to that I also don't get to. That's I wish it was. You need to work out a system. Yeah, I need to get a PA or someone that I can.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:24

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:25

Claude is going to save us. Claude, which which AI do you guys use? Chat GPT or GPT, Claude. Claude is Yeah. I used to be full-time ChatGPT. I'm now to Claude. And does co-work and all sorts of things? It's amazing. It's and it also it's not sycophantic. It doesn't just say, Oh, that's a great idea. Why don't you carry on? Claude will like stop me. Say, are you sure you want to post that's a bit sensitive, political?

SPEAKER_08 1:30:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:51

It's really sharp.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:52

I don't know. Maybe my ChatGPT doesn't like me because it says, What on earth are you thinking right now? Yeah. Let me say this to you. Um nodding at me. What they use like phrases. Let me say this to you gently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:05

Let me say this to you.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:06

Not to criticize you, but that means we must be putting out some hectic stuff that they're going to do. Yeah, I'm more I'm worried about you now. First, the YouTube. You know the YouTube is like verifying. I think I'm thinking about an Indian guy that's sitting in India and he's rewatching this. No, no, no, no, no. You cannot say that. Brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. Guys, thank you so much. Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:30

We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:31

And uh I look forward to seeing Yak on your show soon. Well, both of you. Yeah. I didn't accept. I I hate, I don't like it.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:38

You don't like being a guest.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:40

No, I don't like being a guy. Oh, wait, you have been a guest once on Elton. Only because Elton is Elton forced me almost. He asked me and then I said maybe next time. And then I'm going to support because he's supportive also. But I don't like I don't want to.

unknown 1:31:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:55

I think people already think I'm stupid enough, just as it is, on as being the host. I don't want to confirm it being a guest. No man.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:03

Don't don't say that.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:04

But start with the act first. He's validating every single one of our guests that when we ask them what they say. It's like I'm not interested. No, I didn't say I'm not interested. I'm very interested. Wow. I've got a letter for my letter.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:17

Okay. How many years were you? 11 years ago.

unknown 1:32:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:23

Guys, thanks so much. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much. Is that an actual waffle for us?

SPEAKER_08 1:32:27

Yeah, suppression waffles.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:29

Wow, awesome.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:30

Thank you. Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:31

Cheers, I'm gonna first bump because my hands are freezing actually. Really? I always sit in the air conditioner.