SPEAKER_03 0:00

This episode of a Why Did I Become a Doctor is brought to you in partnership with Medical Brief, South Africa's leading daily healthcare news service. Stay informed with trusted reporting, expert insights, and analysis that matters to healthcare professionals. Subscribe free at medicalbrief.co.za forward slash subscribe. Enjoy the show. Who's doing the intro today? You. Me. You know you spoke a lot in the last episode in the most recent episode. I noticed. I don't want to mention the name because it's recording. We might go straight into it, but I'm not here. By mistake. No, I'm I I'm I'm toying with the idea, Luvan. It is Luvan, not L of not going into the whole welcome, everybody, our next guest is so and so. But we'll see. Maybe maybe we'll do it with this. Well, let's try it out now. Yeah. See what's just recording go. Louvan, I think you're the youngest guest we got on the show so far.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

How old are you? Can I ask?

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Yeah, 19.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

19. Oh my goodness. Is it even allowed to be in dentistry? They shouldn't allow it. They should only they should be a 21-year age little bit on dentistry. Maybe like 41. Make sure that you mature enough to know what you're getting yourself into. So wait, you're second-year dental student at Tux. So welcome, man. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Luvan Royan. There's no fun in there. There's no fun. Wait, I'll tell you the story. But how did we meet, Luvan?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Um I left a comment on the YouTube channel. Yeah. And then you said you were coming to Vitoria. And then we met that day at the lecture.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

I forgot the the the YouTube comment, but you left a comment on one of the episodes, right? You said something like Love the Stuff, love the stuff. And then I said, Yeah, pull in, let's do it. And then on Instagram, I think you messaged. I did. And um I wanted to tell the story because it's funny. So like to me it's funny. You probably don't even know this. But so I was giving, I was due to give a lecture at Tux to the fourth and fifth years on two separate days. And then you messaged and said, Paul in, uh, you know, you want to come and I said, No problem. What year are you in? I'm doing fourth or fifth year. You said second. So you said make a plan, you'll get in somehow. So I get to the campus, and then you come and shake my hand, right? I'm thinking now, okay, where's this Van Royan guy that I'm supposed to be meet? Because he doesn't look African. You're not giving Van Royan here, you know? And then only afterwards, I'm like, oh, it's Louvan Royan. But you get that a lot. Yeah, I do. Yeah. I do actually. So often. So man, what Van Royan? Yeah. What possessed you to do dentistry, dude?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

What a what a decision. I you know, I only decided to do dentistry in grade 11. And it's a bit late because at the end of grade 11, you're applying. Um wait, you think that's late?

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Uh I wanted to let him go before I came here.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Go, yeah. But uh, so yeah, I got to like midway through grade 11. I think I went to the dentist. I'm like, hey, that's kind of enjoyable. But if you ask like people that know me, I went from everything. Um, I'm very talented with computers and coding and stuff like that. So that was always what I thought I was gonna do. And entrepreneurship, that's for me, is where my skill set is. And I thought, okay, that's that's everything. I mean, IT is my favorite subject in school. I was like, this is it. And then, yeah, like halfway through grade 11, I'm like, I actually don't want to be working on a computer all day. That seems boring. And then AI is coming in, the whole world seems to be changing, everything seems so different. And then I think I went to the dentist and I was like, this, I could do this every day. This is awesome. In grade 11, it just in grade 11. And then Well, you went as a patient. I went as a patient, and then just did some research, and I'm like, this is the perfect career for me. It's a perfect mix of uh you have to be academically strong to get in and to get through dentistry. You have to be good with your hands, you have to be good with people, you have to be business-minded if you're not own your own practice. So for me, that was the perfect mix of things, and that's why.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

So, what did you go to the dentist for?

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Can you tell us how I've never had anything done. Yeah, not a single filling, cavity, braces. I literally just went for a checkup and cleaning.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Okay, so you're one of those diligent patients. Yeah. Like, uh, I need a root candy. It wasn't for your first time, though. At the dentist? Yeah. No, no. And who's the dentist that inspired you? What's the what's their name?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Dr. Nyker. But uh, I think just like looking at dentists in general, Googling, YouTubing. Yeah. And then I Googled like highest Porsche ownership rates. And uh see the percentage of dentists that own Porsches, and they're like, yeah. Where did you Google this?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

He's fact-checking. He is he's gonna pull it up, he's gonna pull it up.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Ownership rate profession. Rate professions, right? Can't be dentists, no way. Look at the stereotype. You never know. Porsche ownership or Porsche ownership is highest among entrepreneurs. Let's see to okay. Well, yeah, I guess it well, this is saying entrepreneurs, but it's Gemini. Assuming people you like Porsches, then. Yeah. Are you into cars? I am. I I'm a boy. Yeah, I'm a boy also, but I was never into cars. We're both boys, yeah. We were the worst two people that you probably know about cars. Yeah, I don't know anything about cars. I've been driving the same car for the last 19, 18 years. And even yesterday I posted a story on my Instagram about a car. Yeah. And like a majority of like my friends that know me. Well, like, since when are you into cars? Yeah, no. Is it yours? It's like, yeah, co-owned. Okay. It's like um there's an episode that hasn't been released yet, and I was just watching it recently because um it's gonna be published soon. We're talking to a DJ and speaking to Yak about him being a DJ. He was never into music, he he he he but he's a DJ. I actually But that's Yash's philosophy, okay? If you were never interested in something as a kid, you're not allowed to do it. You have to show that interest is from like you have to show it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

I I actually wanted to do music production and become an audio engineer. And then and uh just I also felt like that was a career that just limited me. There's so so little we can do. We have an opening yeah for you.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

There's I don't know if you know Dr. Kiash Arjun. No, he's a singer, the singing dentist. Okay, yeah, you must meet up with him and maybe uh he's he's gonna be on the show soon, yeah, isn't he? Rekindle your your passion for yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

So I was into like heavy music production, grade eight, grade nine, sitting there, COVID making beats and what, with those little MIDI things, yeah. Yeah, I had a full keyboard, everything, drum pad, like full sound control, everything. And then I'll just be making beats, making music, house music, and stuff. And then then I got to grade 10 um at Jeppy. I was quite busy and stuff, and just all fell away.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Jeppy is a is a Joburg boy school, right? Yeah. Okay. That's how I was. And so you've you're a Joburg boy, yeah. Born and bred? Through and through. Okay. And growing up, what was it like? Um, were you good at academics? Were you a sportsman?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

I was um yeah, I was pretty good at academics. I was quite blessed. I I didn't have to try out. Like I would get quite decent marks. Then I got to high school and I was like, okay, like academics is where my like specialty is. Let me put some effort in. Grade, grade nine was still messing around, everything. Grade 10 came. This is now after COVID. I finally got into JP. I was applying there. Grade 8, grade 9, still didn't get in. So grade 10 came and I got a place. Is JP like a place to get in? It's very competitive. So there's 200 spots every year for grade 8, and I think they get about like 500 applicants. 200? Yeah. It's a lot of it's yeah, 200 boys. 200 boys in every grade. Yeah. And then eight summer trip. Um, it's right change. I work like 10 minutes away from yeah. What do your parents do? Um, my mom's an investment specialist, and my dad works for MTN as a manager there. Okay. And then, yeah, so no doctors, nothing. No, signals have been dropping, eh? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Your signals have been dropping. Yeah. What's happening? Are you an MTN? Yeah. But and medicine? Never thought about that. So I did, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Why obviously as every Indian kid will think about medicine. Okay. And the the pressure from well, no one actually, but the external pressure from the family. When you're scoring the top marks and you know, you're like topping the bigger family. Yeah, the extended family. Extended. Yeah. Can I be a doctor soon? All of that stuff. Um, but I could never. I just the the one thing as well in why I chose dentistry is I have to own my hours. Because there's no points. I don't care how much you earn and how fancy your surgeries are and how complicated if you can't make your own time. So I'm really big on that and having my own downtime as well. And for me, being a dentist and only own practice and all of that gives me that opportunity. So if I if I didn't go into dentistry, I would have been a business owner 100%.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Okay. But you your guys, like your generation, what's it? Gen Z Z? Yeah. Gen Z. You guys are digital natives, right? You're born with an iPad in your hand, probably, right? Pretty much. And you guys are good at content creation.

unknown 8:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Right? It comes net. You know this, yeah? That generation, they can just make content like crazy.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Because you know what resonates with you. Yeah. So it's pretty easy to put that out.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

So were you do did you do content creation and all that stuff?

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Um, I did a bit of video. So while I was doing the music production and trying to get into music and all of that, I was also messing around with all the video editing and things like that. And I think content creation is amazing. Yeah. I I mean I I think the dancers that do content creation have like a big edge. Yeah. And they get patients in the door much easier, they show off their work much easier. And I think that's where the future of dentistry will be.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Do you use a Mac or Windows?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

I use Windows.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

Okay. All right, interesting. Just checking. And how did you come across this podcast? This podcast scrolling TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Really? Yeah. Oh wow. So you got some got some engagement. But especially on the dentistry side. Yeah. And actually, if you remember that day you came to campus, there was a girl that stopped you and said she watches your podcast. Oh yeah, you were walking me around doing my tour, yeah. Yeah, and she said that. And I was like, yeah, I think a lot of people in the healthcare and dentistry industry do see your podcast.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Like you think you think TikTok like targets a younger generation more than Instagram?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Um I think so. I think so. I think a lot of younger people are on TikTok, but I also think TikTok puts things that you're more interested in on your feed.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

It knows what TikTok is scary. The the algorithm is no, I'm not. But I feel that I feel like it's dangerous. It's too big of a like a dive. It doesn't allow you not to stop watching, it just goes on to the next video. It's endless.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

It's endless scrolling. Yeah. It's dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

It knows exactly what you're looking for, and it is you can go down uh a rabbit hole and then next thing it's like one hour later, and you're supposed to have done your assignment or something. For me, it's editing the show. Okay, so you found it on TikTok. I'm glad we went on because I I was scared of TikTok. Yeah, like I've been on Instagram, Twitter, all the usual Facebook, like the boomer things that my my generation goes on. But I avoided TikTok, and the only reason I got on it on Twitter was because of the podcast. I said we have to like broaden the reach. So I'm glad I did. At least it it reached you.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

And then like Twitter and Facebook kind of dead. I mean, no. Twitter is dead. Twitter is dead. Yeah, it's completely. Especially in South Africa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Facebook even. Yeah, the the the Facebook's okay because you can post simultaneously through Instagram and Facebook. Yes. So you actually don't have to make extra content, you just post it all at once. And then yeah, you reach like your generation people getting to that audience.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Facebook is Facebook is banging, yeah. Uh like so. One of the uh the shorts that I posted of the Minister of Health uh a couple of days ago, it's on 250,000 plus views. Yeah. Right? And on our YouTube channel, as of as of today, what's the date, uh 29th March? All our videos on YouTube are just exceeded 250,000. So imagine one short clip, thanks, but that's it's thanks to Facebook actually, because even though I posted it simultaneously, it resonated with the Facebook crowd.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

But obviously, because the older generation knows the Minister of Health. Yeah. More and they'd be more willing to listen to like what he says.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

So do you have any tips for how do we how do we expand our reach?

SPEAKER_01 11:43

And how much do you use AI to make the clips?

SPEAKER_03 11:46

A lot. I mean that the AI makes the clip. Yeah. That's a that's another thing that uh so have you heard of Opus? Yeah. So Opus, all I do is uh feed the YouTube, the long form thing into Opus, and then it says working, come back later, like 20 minutes later, it it shoots out 40 shots. Yeah, with the captions on and everything. With the captions. So the only work that I do is actually just making sure the captions are are correct, like fixing them up, because you know it doesn't pick up our accents properly and things like that. And I'm also like very pedantic about changing US spelling to South Afric to you know British spelling or South African spelling, like the Z versus the S's. Yeah, I'm just one of those. I wish it were I wasn't because it takes a lot of time. Yeah, yeah. So I use AI a lot and the and then also to generate the the video title and descriptions for YouTube and but why what's your suggestion? Yeah, give it away.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

About about what just concentration in general.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

No, just how do how do we broaden the reach of this podcast?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Um, I think yeah, YouTube is a good platform, but you're gonna get more people to get YouTube through Instagram. So one of the things I noticed, and it's such a small thing, but if you watch the clips from overseas podcasts, they actually cut out like all the bits of empty space. Yeah. So in between my sentences and stuff, it's all just like a high, it's a high energy. So every sentence is starting like with this, and it keeps that people engaged when they're scrolling. Because as soon as you a video bores you for like two seconds, the engagement's gone. Someone just scrolls. There's no tie, like I'm watching a YouTube video, I gotta open the app and click on a video and full screen it and stay on it. But you don't think that might take things out of context a little bit? It's it's the same sentence I'm saying. They just remove the space in between every sentence.

SPEAKER_03 13:25

I know what you're saying, but like the pause, for example. Yeah, yeah. The just like to put a bit of emphasis and things like that. I think that's it's a grey area there. No, no, but he's he's absolutely right. But uh you also you've got a point in that if there's a dramatic pause or a pause that's done on purpose, I'm sure you'll keep the even the big podcast will keep that it for suspense. But most most um clips, even that um that I said now, it gets cut out. I mean, I've seen people also that they use AI and then it changes their voice a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Like So that's the that's the other thing. So I don't know if you guys have seen on TikTok and Instagram, but you can hold on it and you watch it in two times speed. Yes. And that's like what's taken over generation, absolutely like rotted our brains. Because you watch all the videos in two times speed, because you just don't have time. Like you're right, it's your generation. It's my generation.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Because I never thought about this until somebody young like you said to me, sorry, I had to watch the thing in two speed, but it was great. And I never thought about that. Is this why we're nailing him? Because he's young. No, no, no. I'm getting insight. I'm just waste, I'm using your time to get this for my own benefit. Because we can learn a lot from Gen Z. Yeah, yeah, that is true. That is true.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

So the two times. So what are we doing wrong?

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Tell us anything, just be honest, man. Well, I'm here with you to do that. No, you're wrong. We're doing we're getting it right. Yeah, no, no. Come on, please, please, please. You're already on the show. You don't need to be nice. Like, like you're also the first guest, you're the first guest to bring us gifts, I must say. So are you hinting now for the other gift? Yeah, thanks for the gift. Now we have to incentive this gift. No, man, thank thanks for the chocolates and the Jameson. Appreciate it. Um, so what were we saying? No, no. We're definitely doing things wrong. Everybody, nobody's perfect, right? So there's always room for improvement. So give me something at least.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

One I think what I would do. Well, I love the things about like recently you had the forensic pathologist, and having someone with so much influence is and you also saw like with the videos, if you look, Dr. Musa's uh video has like one of the most amount of views. Riyadhia. Yeah, and the health minister as well, it's because it's the biggest names. But I understand that you can't always just get big names, but I think getting influencers, social media, people with presence online is the key. Because that's to reach the other half of the audience. When you want to reach people like me, like dentists, I'm more keen to listen to like a surgeon or someone specialized in the field, even though they don't have a name, they don't have any online presence or whatever. But that for me interests me. Yeah. But then to to get those like hundred thousand million views, you're just gonna have to have someone who's just has a great, like a or big reach and then able to share to them.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

But let me tell you, right? So I also thought this, I also thought this um that if I get the big influences, it's a it's a surefire way to get like lots of views. Riyadh Musa, even though you said he's got a lot of views, actually it pales in comparison to my most viewed video. And the funny thing is, my most viewed video on YouTube was shot in my friend's backyard. We were sitting on camp master chairs, and it was shot on just that one camera, and it just like the YouTube algorithm just took it to Botswana. I mean, I also thought get influencers, it'll it'll go viral, but it actually hasn't so far.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

But the clips on TikTok and stuff, yeah. Dr. Musa is yeah, these clips are the biggest because people are used to see his face. So you when you're scrolling past, you're not gonna scroll past. You're gonna see and you're gonna listen to what he has to say because you've seen him before.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

So let me make that note. The one first tip is get more influencers on. Who should we get on?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Do you know anybody? Uh not sure, but I think there's a lot of uh medical students and people and like also medical doctors who are doing a lot of content creation. And I think nowadays, after COVID, especially, content creation and a lot on TikTok is where everyone wants to be. Your gener, it's your generation. They just they want do you want to have an online presence? And I honestly think when I get to like being a practice owner or something like that, if you don't have online presence, you won't be anywhere. I think so. Before someone like nowadays, you ask someone, hey, do you know a good dentist? Like I see the message on the WhatsApp group, I'm on and everything, like just the Indian guys in community. Do you do you know a good dentist I can go to or whatever? But I think in the future it's just gonna be dentists near me, or they're just gonna go on YouTube or TikTok or Instagram and be like dentists. And they're gonna see and then they're gonna see you work and compare you to everyone else. You need to be online and you need to show that I'm better and like this is what I do.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Yeah. So that's uh yeah. My opinion there, what what you said and what's who's you, me. Yeah, you, or like what performed already that did well with uh KFAS and Botswana. Maybe it is we need not to just get any influencer, but get a niche influencer, someone who's very popular in their realm or sphere of practice, for example. Yeah, like I don't know, Mauritius. We get someone from Mauritius, interview them, and let them go and post it on on their socials, and then you get a whole Mauritian crowd that will bump up the number. But it's not like we, you know, we're gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

But Dr. Lindy is saying this, and yet he has a big Instagram following.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Yes, but he doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

But he doesn't post. You guys uh you planted the. I'm glad you're on my side there.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

You you agree with me, yeah. He doesn't post. No, he's very um curated. Not curated, he's very like selfish with his um brand. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Trying to keep those followers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Whereas, like, you know, one thing I loved about Yassin Bismillah, like he he even posted the clips before I posted them. Like, he's so keen to just help and like share and put things out there, uh, which was a refresh, refreshing difference like compared to this influencer over here. I don't know what he posts. He tries to, he's got that whole like trying to be like an enigma type of mysterious man.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

But it's working, it's working. I also understand that I think people ruin things they see. Yeah. I think for like for me, I try and keep my life as private as possible on Instagram.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

I was going to ask you, like, so what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Uh online. What are you posting? I don't know. You've seen my Instagram, it's quite it's empty. I don't have no posts, I just post stories.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

But I thought like maybe a dental student vlog or something like that. Yeah, I thought of looking through that.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah. I did, I did. You know, the one thing I want to get into is helping high school students. Okay. I have a very big passion of that because, like, for my, I had a quite a tough time and I actually went through a tough challenge in high school. So we'll come back to in my matric year. But when you're in, I remember, I still remember looking in Matric for any dental students, and I couldn't find one in the country who's making content, who's giving advice like, hey, this is when you should apply, this is what you should try and do, this is what happens if you don't get it. No one did that. And I feel like I at least could be that voice. Even if I just help 20 kids trying to get into dentistry, that's enough. And if my video gets 25 views, I'm happy.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Uh around what year was this when you were searching? Uh around like 2023, 2024. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Because I remember, I mean, Johan de Klerk, you never came across him, eh? He was good. They had they had a podcast, Johan and Ues. They were one of the inspirations for this podcast. They had a podcast called Cusp of Coffee.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah. You know, there was the students. You were telling me about this the other day on campus.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Okay, yeah, yeah. So he inspired, uh they inspired it because they would just sit at their desks, I think. I don't even actually know, because Ues was is in the Western Cape and Johan was in Pretoria. They would just sit and speak about their dental school experiences. And I would just I would do my walk for like one hour on Saturday or Sunday and listen to these two youngsters talking nonsense. But I really enjoyed it. Yeah. And I thought, this is great, man. And and thought to myself, if they can do it, why can't we do it? You know? So maybe you just think of something like that, you know? You're still in second year, you're still young, and there's time to go. There is time. There is time. But also in retrospect, like what you went through to apply and all of that, which we're probably gonna get into. Yes, let's get to that. Let's get to it. So it's grade 11 now. You go to Dr. Nyker, Doctor Who Nyker, or what what? Um Dr.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Nike is my dentist in Madrid.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

What's the first name? Don't know. Like initial nothing. Okay, Dr. Mike Madrid, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

You've been calling me Dr. Lindy the whole time. Yeah, yeah. Dr. Lindy, but he's uh it's your title, you deserve it. This man is very respectful. Like just call him Yesh.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

He can get Yesh because he's not a doctor.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Yeah. Hey, I actually have. Okay, we'll cancel this episode.

SPEAKER_04 21:41

You can get Yesh, L B.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

You know I was a dentist, right? Yeah. Um wait now, where were we? Yeah, um Nike. Oh yes, Nike. So Dr. Nike in Madran. Yeah. You go there now, you think, okay, I want to be a dentist. What what do you do next? What steps do you take next?

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Um, you go home and you go on TikTok and you that's it. And that's like that's what I'm saying. Like you just go and you search dentistry, dentistry lifestyle. Do you know a song called Nova? Yes. You know what he thinks about Frank Ocean.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

You know that song. Right. He sings about uh somebody a girl who wants to be a dentist really bad. Oh. Yeah. You know, I'll play it for you later. Yeah. It's a cool song. It's uh cool song. Yeah, yeah. I just I can't play it when my daughter's in the car. The language is rude. It's got language. A little bit of language. Okay, so you go to TikTok, you search that, you come across Frank Ocean and all the other stuff. What do you come across?

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Tell us you come across the glorified side of dentistry, which is dangerous. But it's good because it gives you something to work forward to, like something to be like, okay, this is it. Now, and also, and I won't even lie about this, you get a doctor title. And growing up in the Indian family and everything, that's like the peak to be like, well, you know, my why do you think I'm so offended?

SPEAKER_03 22:56

You said I'm not a doctor. I mean, I am.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Jeez. Hello. For your grandma to go, oh, my grandson's studying medicine with other grannies, you know, and you hear it. Like I had it growing up. I had it growing up from more my extended family family. Like, you know, what's her name, son? He's studying medicine, he's doing so well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just so, yes, you get the doctor's title. I obviously I looked at medicine. Um, it's I mean, being a doctor as well is glorified. And the respect you get for being in med school, for being a doctor, I won't even lie, it's it's I get it still when you tell people the first reaction, I actually wanted to mention this. Whenever I tell someone I met for the first time, I'm studying dentistry, they go, sure. Or like, wow, that that must be tough. Like, Wild. And I'm like, not really. And I think you forget that because uh on med campus, you're just surrounded by like doctors, professors, people with PhDs and like 20 years of experience, and then all these other kids who got literally perfect distinctions, perfect marks, and were also gonna become doctors, you start like losing that perspective, and so yeah. So I think now I don't see it as much, but definitely when I was young, I was like, Yeah, being a doctor is cool. Wearing scrubs every day is is kind of cool. Um, so I was looking at that, then yeah, just seeing that they earn well.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Did you come across like American guys on TikTok?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Definitely, yeah, definitely. Uh American dentistry is so different to South African dentistry. And I actually one of my things in the future is to try and bring some of that American influence to South Africa. Tell us what are you what are you talking about? So, like one I know um that they have like the practices where they just have rooms with hygienists working in them and the doctors are just bouncing around. I know like orthodoncers are similar to that, but here like from the dentists I've shadowed and things, they do most of the work themselves, as in the cleanings and the regular stuff and things like that. And I'm like, that's a bit ineffective use of a dentist's time. When an oral hygienist can do that, and you can get an oral hygienist to do that, and you can come in for like specialized treatments.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

But you don't think do you think our economy provides for that in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Yeah, that's the other thing, is it's so little oral hygienist in the country, I think. And so little of them are being trained. So, and as a dentist, you just you you don't care, you like you just want to do work and get your patient as happy as possible. And I would also, I'd rather do the cleaning myself for any patient than have someone work under me and do it and then my I must check it or whatever. That doesn't make sense, right? It's sterapeutic sometimes. Just to to sort of like bang off to see that calculus flying off.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

Fly off and go into your eye and come on, man. You know, it's like win through your hair in a posh. Yeah. It's a little bit of a speck of calculus.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

And the other thing is how they get into denzel school.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

So this is like content from the US guys about pre-med and all that.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah, that's I mean, that's pretty epic. And I also think it's quite wrong in South Africa, but I think I don't know how to like I haven't come up with a solution yet. But all you tested on is your ability to do a test. Yes. Academics. Academics is just to regurgitate information on a piece of paper, and that's going to determine whether I can be a doctor or not, which is wrong. Because you're working in a service industry where you need to work with people every day, and in dentistry, you need to work with your hands, and that's what separates dentistry from medicine. And I tell the joke all the time, and people laugh, but every uh every dentist can become a medical doctor, but not every medical doctor can become a dentist. That is true. That we we we we didn't joke about it.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

I don't think so. I don't think that's a joke, but I I I would take it even further. Just like you're right, you're so right, dude. Like dentistry is is about working with your hands and also working with people. Yeah, but one more it's working with people that are under so much stress and anxiety and they already hate you.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

People that hate you before they come. Yeah. Yeah, because stereotype before they met you, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Yeah, because it's not just about working with people, it's working with anxious people. That's the biggest people that actually don't want to be there. Yeah, they really don't want to be there.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

So how would you change that? Let's see. The getting into the school.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

No, no, like just you know, you were saying you're bringing you like if you had had a door where you'd bring in these Americanisms here to South Africa and South African dentistry. And I'm thinking you're talking about private in general. In private industry. Yeah. So what how how would you change it? I just want to I just want to pause here. Yeah, this is not a job interview, yeah, please. Because this is sounding a little bit interesting. Like he's thinking of recruiting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I like the way you are you are you were sort of directing it to say, how do we make sure that the that the intake at universities caters for that kind of thing? Yeah. Do you have any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Um it's hard. It's hard because you have to re- we'll come back. Yeah, you're not a good question. We'll come back to we'll come back to your so you can know if you want to hire me and answer. Yes, and I'm buying you time for that.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

So think hard.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Yeah. Um thank me later. We'll we'll have to you have to restructure everything because then matric exams become different. They don't mean as much, I guess, if you need to take another exam. Yeah. And then you've got to think about, okay, well, now do high schools mean as much? And you know, in America, they build a full CV so everyone gets involved, like in as many extracurriculars as possible. And that's how you'll get into your pre-med, then you'll get through pre-med, and then you'll get into dentistry, you'll take the DAT, all of that stuff. But one of the like the things that I love the most is they do a depth perception test. And they mean in the DAT. So that's the DAT is the dental admissions test. So you have to take that and you get a score. It's I think it's out of 1600. It's like the MCAT, you know the MCAT? Yeah. So that's the dentistry one in America. So you take the DAT, and in that there's actual like your ability to perceive things in like 3D space. Wow. And so that's a a part of it. And on top of all of that, there's the normal biochemistry, physiology, anatomy, all the stuff you'll do in university. Wow, did you get all this on TikTok? Yeah, well, YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

The internet is an amazing place. I need to get on TikTok. You need to get on the internet. We that's what I'm saying. These digital natives, they're different and they they get so much info. But that that depth perception thing is so fascinating. So that probably already just filters out the people that you know, maybe even me. Shame. But I mean what? You're telling me if you just don't have one eye, then you can't uh No, but they work on it, don't they? Surely these kids that want to get in and pass the DAT dig one.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

So so for the MCATs and the DAT, they do like a six-month course and where they're just studying for one exam. And not even like attending classes, they're just studying for one exam. So that's like everything for them. So they yeah, they're working on it, they're doing practicing. Because that score is everything that's gonna determine your admission. And it's like it's one big test that you need to prepare for.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

And I'm guessing that in the process of that, it also gives people an opportunity to decide is this something I really want to do, you know, going forward? Because you now as it stands, right? Grade 11, you apply, you shadow one or two people if you if you really want to enthusiastic. Yeah, you get good marks, you get in, and then you only find out after you've started first year, right? Like, gosh.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

That's that's what I wanted to talk about. So um can I tell you my experience from please? So, yeah, starting high school with ChP, love it. We'll come back to it. That place, I think high schools are so important, and for me, that's that's home, that's everything. Jeffy boys are P boys. It's uh yeah, that's like that completely changed my life, and that made me into the man I am today is going to ChP. So I get in grade 11, I'm doing pretty well, get good marks, playing first team sports, we everything's going well, and then I decide dentistry. Woot sport, wait away, I was playing squash, I was okay, first team squash as well. And then you know, you're applying for prefecture, you're doing everything in grade 11. Grade 11 is quite a busy year, and they tell you it's so important because you need to apply to Matric. And then you get to Matrix and they're like, no, it's so important, you need to get into university. And you get to university, they're like, if you fail first year, you're out, so you need to party. It's like an endless cycle of important years. Um, yeah, then you apply and you pray. And to be honest, I didn't get provisional acceptance in grade 11. Yeah. What did you apply to? I applied, so I also didn't take biology, okay, which was a mistake. And I didn't know that. But at the same time, I so when you're choosing your subjects, they say if you want to like have the most, take physics, because physics gives you access to everything. Take physics and pure maths. But they don't tell you that some universities require you to take biology to get into medicine and dentistry. So I was ineligible to go to VITS and UWC. Wow. So out of the four dental universities, I could only go to two.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

And then So Pretoria actually allows you to apply to medicine and dentistry with no biology. With no biology, but you have to take physics. Okay. So you had the options between Tux and SMU. SMU. Okay, and you applied to both. I applied to both, obviously. Right. Um it's not an obvious thing, eh? Because a lot of people they don't apply to SMU.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Yeah. You know that. Well, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Why is that? Go on, yeah. To be honest with you, I applied to SMU. They I got an email, received your application, and that was the last contact I ever got from them.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Okay, so in a couple of years.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Not even a rejection letter, not even anything. That was it. And I was just I was so shocked. I was like, how do you even get into SMU now? Now I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Because how did these guys? What did they do? Like, what did they do? They did they physically hand in the papers or what? Yeah, I was genuinely blue-ticked and this is 2023 around.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah, 2023, end of 2023.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Yeah, okay, well, I'll speak to my people. It's in the what's going on there.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

So yeah, ask them if they can find my application. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Yeah, go on because then matric comes, and um, so you guys don't know this, but in the middle of my matric year, one week before my midger exams, I got into a very serious car accident. Jeez. Where I broke my spine and I broke both the bones in this hand here. Right hand. And I had a yeah, in my right hand. And it had your dominant hand. Yeah, it is. And I had a severe concussion. Yeah. And this is a week before my midger exams. Sheesh. So I spent a week in ICU, and obviously I had to miss the midger exams. I was on full bed rest for two months and then came back to write prelims. And I remember the nights after accidents, I was like, I'm the most like unluckiest person in the world. A week before exams. All I've been thinking about for the last three years is just get your academics right, you know, smash these academics, go to university, like get your life together. That's all.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Yeah, you weren't thinking, thank God I'm alive.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yeah, you were. I wasn't. At that, no, at that night, I wasn't. I was like, I this I hate everything, hate the world, this this sucks. Like, why is this? I'm just thinking, I'm gonna fail, I'm gonna fail. I wake up in the morning, obviously, Thai is how the medication, and then I wake up in the morning and like a bit of clarity hits me. And I'm like, whoa, I broke my spine and almost died. Um, thank God I'm alive. And for me, it was and I was like, thank God for my family, they're all here. And I was just so grateful. And I I think it was such a defining moment in my life, it completely changed my changed my perception. And I just felt so grateful ever since that day.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Yeah, I got that about you. You seem like a very inspired person because Yash spoke about you before, and he was says, No, there's a guy, he created the group, and Yash is always like uh retentive about me like responding to groups and stuff. And he said, No, respond to this guy, like he really wants to get on the show. And then Dr. I mean retentive, I'm I'm very like I'm very fussy. Yeah, I don't want to say the word. What anal return? You can say anal, it's fine. Okay, fine. It's a medical podcast. It's a medical yeah, but yeah, that I I mean I got that about you. You're a very inspired person, but I can see where it comes. Enthusiastic and inspired. But yeah, go on with the story. So you what were you driving? No, you I was a passenger. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

I was a passenger, and uh yeah, it was a Saturday, it was actually a week before my 18th birthday. It was uh it was a Saturday, Saturday afternoon. Uh was a periodic crash. Who was driving? Uh my uncle was driving. Yeah. And uh yeah, and then everybody's okay. Everyone's everyone's okay now, and I have no permanent issues. He's also okay, he's doing okay. And yeah, I got completely knocked out. Like in the when the accident happened, woke up on the floor outside the car, can't move. Yeah, can't move anything, but like any my entire right arm is dead because this entire like all the bones here are broken. Um can't move anything, like can't move my body, I can't even get up, nothing. And I'm like, what is going on? My head is like racing, and you're in and out of consciousness, and then next thing I know, I wake up in the ambulance and I'm begging these people. I don't know why I remember it, I'm begging them for a green whistle. Green whistle. So it's it's the medication they give you, and it's like a like a vape pen, basically. Okay, but it's obviously it's medication. TikTok thing right on.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

I'm thinking eating like uh cream soda.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Oh no, no, no, no, it's a drug, it's a green ambulance, yeah. And it's uh yeah, you you suck on it and it it has the like painkillers in it, and it's like epinephrine and adrenaline and everything all in all in one. You were in pain. I was in so much pain. Um I've never felt that much pain in my life. And then I took that and finally all the muscles relaxed. Oh, they gave you that thing, yeah, yeah. So I you I held it in my mouth, in my teeth, because I can't use my hands, and I'm holding it in my teeth and breathing it in, and my muscles relaxed, and I could feel my toes again. And I was like, wow. Oh, so they actually have that in South Africa. Yeah, they actually did in the African.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Make a note there. Green whistle. Green whistle.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

Give me to our anxious patient.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

Yeah. Um your spine's gonna love you after all of this injury you chose to go and do dance.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

No, carry on, yeah. Plus my hand. Um, so yeah, then I and then I wake up, hits the hospital, I I know something's wrong with my back. I'm like, this is no, I I can't move, guys. Like if you ask me to get out of this, I can't move at all. And they're like, okay, we're gonna send you for full CAT scans. I mean, my face is all bruised and bloody. My I can my hand is like three times the size. I can just you can see it's like something's wrong. So you can't move yourself to calm down. Like, uh yeah, all I have is mobility of my left hand basically, yeah. And not even full, and you're like gassed because your your back is so tight that all the muscles are just holding your chest together. Um gets to the hospital, they do the scans, they're like, no, your spine is fractured on L2. It's straight through. This looks like a compression fracture. Um, we need to do more checks to make sure you don't have any nerve damage. And then then, like, all how broke loose. Now everyone is worried. But also, like, so grateful for my family. I think every single person I know showed up to the hospital. The entire hospital floor, like the first floor of the emergency room, was just full of people and of friends, family, and I'm like, that's amazing. He's Indian, like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

That's good to say they're everywhere. Yeah, but it's so good. They all showed up and they all came and saw me that night.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Your parents must have been freaked out. Uh like terrible. My poor mom. Yeah. And then so how how does that affect then matrix the matrick yeah?

SPEAKER_01 37:14

It was, yeah, it was pretty rough. So then I'm so now um like also my headmaster came and saw me, Mr. Dale Jackson. Uh, and he came and saw me. Dale. That's nice, yeah. Yeah. This is our patient.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

He was actually here yesterday. Really? Are we allowed to say this?

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Are you sure?

SPEAKER_03 37:30

Yeah, because he's because I don't want to edit anything out of this episode now. You see what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

He came and he came and saw me in hospital. And um, well, him and I were close. I moved now. He's on more longer than. No, you know, he's now he's uh headmaster at St. John's. We're very lucky to have him. Yeah, he completely changed Sherby.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

But that's how wait, hold on. This is we let's not brush over it. So your headmaster rocks up and that's a cool school. Like one of the stars, maybe because I guess competitive.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

No, so I was also, I mean, I was in academics, I was a colorsman, prefect, head of academics, head of discipline. So I I mean, like people knew me and then you know, discipline, what's that? Um, discipline. Well, you know, at boys schools, we we strict. If I could, I would. Um we're quite strict and uniform always neat, you know, hair always neat, shaven.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

I went to a boy school, yeah. No gel. Uh was it they still have the no gel in your hair type of thing? Hey, DHS, huh? I used to get in trouble putting gel in my hair.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

And he still used to do it as well. That's the thing. Then you got in trouble, but you knew it was wrong.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

No, what's this wrong? I mean, what's wrong with putting gel in your hair? Like, seriously.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

No, they they were more strict, but no fades or earrings or facial hair, anything like that. What happened? Look what happened.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Went to Vratoria for a year, completely changed.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

Well, he doesn't have the fade, but he's got the earrings. I'm just describing for the listeners. Okay, so good team. So Mr.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

J.L. Jackson comes and visits you. Yeah. So my mom reaches out to one of the people that work at the school teachers. Actually, it was uh a mom of my friend, and reaches out and says, Levant's been involved in an accident, and this is like what's going on. And then, yeah, and we the they immediately told the prefect body, so all the prefects know and stuff, and then they told teachers, and I guess like, but it kept it, not the entire school. We just kept it because it there's no need to. And uh then when Mr. Jackson heard he came and he visited and he told me, and I remember the conversation. Well, as much as I can with the brain injury, but I remember the conversation, he told me, don't worry about a thing, the school's got you. And I was so grateful for that. Like, I came back to JP and they're like, Don't worry about they basically nullified my major results. So they put so I didn't get like three marks, I just got a null. Yeah. But now the problem with that is everything else matters so much more. Yeah. So now I get to prelims and I'm just coming back, and and like I'm scared. Like I never wrote an exam this year. Um, what were you out for? I was on bedroom for two months. So I spent the month of the whole of exams, basically, like completely mobile, and then the second month, uh, like where you get that holiday break as well. And then I got to come back just before prelims. And that so that week in ICU, Mr. Jackson came and saw me, and everyone's telling me no, it's fine. Like it it this thing happens, you can't control it. If you need to, you can come back and rewrite my trick and all of that. But I still remember this is when I was sitting in the ICU and it like the lights go off and it's like 10 p.m. And finally the phone stopped, no one's messaging, everything, and I'm just sitting there and I'm wide awake. And I know medication, training, everything, and my mind is just it's racing. And all I can think about is my career is over. Like I'm dead. Because all I've been doing is just busting my butt for the last like few years to get these amazing marks, and now it's like done. Like, how do you how do you bounce back from this? How do you miss two months of school, have a brain injury, you don't even know if you're gonna walk properly after all of this, you don't know if you can write using your hand. It's in a cast, I had the surgery and everything. There's like plates and screws and all of this, and I'm like, I'm so scared. And all I could think about sitting in that ICU bed is like I'm I'm dead. I don't know, I don't know what's gonna happen now. I'm gonna write my trick, I'm gonna get poor marks, not gonna get in for dentistry, not gonna get in for engineering, not gonna get in for anything. Like this is my life's over. And I was stressed. But people came and told me, I'm like, no, I'm just grateful to be alive. I don't care about all of that. Because I couldn't I did, I did, but at the same time, I'm like, I don't know what's gonna happen in my future. Yeah, and I was so scared. Um, yeah, then I finally get out, and my mom's quite reassuring. She told me, it's okay. If you need to take extra time, you need to take one more year. What's one more year when you're 45? Yeah. Like, who who cares about that? And and I was like, yeah, but I'm still gonna give it my wall. So I come back right before prelim starts. Every day is a struggle at school. Can't even carry a bag. So I remember, and Jepy, it's a 130-year-old school. So the buildings are old and stuff, there's no disability access, stuff like that, right? I had classes like upstairs in the old building, the original building of JP, with like these skinny stairs and everything. I used to leave my bag downstairs. Um I even like use a rollerbag. I used to roll it into the school, leave it downstairs in the front, like just outside the gate, and in between every class, I used to go there and get my books and then go to class and rock up late. And the teachers would be like, and I'll just tell them. Like, I just had to go get my books, like you can't. And so it was, it was pretty tough. Every day was tough at school, your back is killing you.

SPEAKER_03 42:15

And rehab and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Yeah, I had physio as like three times a week, but I was so I knew like I just had to do the exercise. And the timeline they gave me was six months. They told me in six months you can be back to sports, your back's gonna be fine, everything like that. You'll be pretty much healed. Um I was actually, I remember I ran a 5k three months and five days after my accident.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

What's wrong with you, man?

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Yeah, I always got shouted at by friends and family for running the 5k, but I was like, I had to prove it to myself.

SPEAKER_05 42:48

Gosh.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

Yeah, yeah. So you know and also the whole I mean the academic fallout of it as well. I mean, it it's not like you just went back to write the exams. No, you guys during that period people were learning new stuff as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

How did you catch up with that? You sat there and cried and then for 15 minutes and then studied for 45.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

Did you not have to go for like therapy? Like I I did actually.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

I saw an educational psychologist. We had one on school, like an on-site psychologist, and I told her, like, man, I'm struggling. So I I get back. There was a a few tests before your prelims. Some tests to help, you know, boost your marks and get people ready. It was a math test. This is my first test. My brain is still not at 100%. I'm still suffering like the consequences of the concussion. And I get I get down to write the maths test. I studied for like a whole week. Studied pretty hard as much as I could. I can't remember. I think it was like trigonometry. I sit down on the test for the first time in my life. I go blank. Completely blank. I can't remember anything. I open the test, I panic. I scroll to the like scroll. I'm just used to writing on computers now. I turn the page, right? Nothing. I can't remember anything. Turn the page again, nothing. I am writing absolute kibbleish. The time, like the evangelist, like time's up. I'm still writing. I'm like halfway through the one question and halfway through the others. Everything's filled, but nothing is complete. I I immediately I was like, no, it's bad. Like, what is that? That's never been me. I've been like academics come naturally to me. I never had to do that. Like, what is what is this? Get that mark back for the first time in my life, like 22% for maths. Yeah. And now I am scared. Now I'm worried. Um yeah. So then maths market tanks. Now you I didn't have a mid-year exam to help me and to take some of the weight off. Nothing. Maths mark is down. Then write some other tests, slowly trying to find momentum, trying different methods. Went like learned about meditation, trying to get my brain just to like focus. Even if I can get 15 minutes of focus, but just without having the effects of the concussion, just for 15 minutes where I'm okay. And that's enough studying for me. So doing all of that, I tried all these methods, um, like everything. I even started, I would like use specific classical songs for certain subjects. So whenever I would listen to a specific classical song, a classical song is like 12 minutes long, I'd listen to that song, and I'd know, okay, it's time to study maths, and I'd trick my brain to that. And yeah, so I used to do that, and I had to just like come up with the craziest methods just to get around, just to study. And then I did that, and prelims came, monks were in some subjects, okay. Some of them were really bad. Maths, like 60s, 50s, and now I'm like, Yeah, because you need A's, right? You need an A. You desperate, you need A's in everything to get into this year, and plus I don't have provisional acceptance on top of that. So now I'm like really, really scared. Um yeah, and then okay, now I'm stressed out. So, but I'm at the whole time, I'm just like, I'm just gonna do my best and let God do the rest. Because there's nothing more I can do except study. Um, I'm not playing sports anymore, I'm just going for rehab and things like that. And this whole time, just remind me, you hadn't been accepted, or had you? No, I hadn't. So I had provisional everywhere for engineering. Engineering, okay. And that was my second option. And that's what I thought I was gonna do. I was gonna do mechatronics in Cape Town, yeah, which for me is also quite a big passion. My brother-in-law did that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:05

And did he enjoy it? He loved it. He's in now he's he's in Canada. See? For years. See? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Uh yeah. Well, conclusive. Because they're the only university that has and it's such a narrow field, and it's also very competitive. But my grade 11 marks were really great.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

Like good. Can we can we get to that now? What made you think, how did you hear about mechatronics and why did you want to do that as a second fallback as a fallback?

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Actually, it was not as much. Remember, at UCT there is no dentistry. Right. So and I I always dreamed of, actually, another point, I always dreamed of going to Cape Town for university. And I said that from the time I was in grade eight. Why?

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Just get away from family, go to Cape Town, jolle, be on the beach every day, run clubs, you know. That's the that's the vibe. That's the vibe. And then what did you say?

SPEAKER_03 46:53

That's the fun royal part. That's a good one. Yeah, then you would have changed your name.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Yeah, then I would have then I would have to be accepted in Cape. Anyway, I would have got in.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

Yeah, people will get that. It's a it's a it's a borderline joke, but we'll take it. We'll keep it in. Right?

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Yeah, so you you you had the dream of going to the Cape. Yeah, to go into Cape Town. I always said Western Cape. Like this is this is where I want to go. But there was UWC then. There was UWC, but uh I couldn't get in for dentistry. Okay, because of biology. Oh, yeah. Because I didn't see biology. So I I couldn't.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

Um imagine. So basically, you would have tailored your career just because you wanted to go jolling in Cape Town.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Yeah. Imagine. I would have. And then the accident happened, and I realized like when I think it was actually that night all the family was in the hospital. I'm like, how can I move away from all of this? Yeah. Like, how can I leave all my friends and my family? This is my support system. Okay, I get you. This is like now, this is the toughest time in my life. And people were coming and visiting me, which is also kind of annoying, but like every day.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

You see, I almost misinterpreted you there when you said how can I get away from this? I thought maybe you're thinking, How do I get away from all this? Oh, no, no, no, right.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

How could I leave this? Yeah, yeah. I'm grateful to have them all around. Like, how could I leave this support? They're there for me for everything. Um, so then I then yeah, then my trick, I was like, no, I need to stay in Joburg somewhere. And then I was like 100% Pretoria, Pretoria for engineering, whole time, no dentistry acceptance. So I get through the prelims, uh, mock's okay, whatever. I'm like, yeah, this is this is looking rough. Let me just study hard for finals, see what happens. Finals come, do pretty well, do pretty well. Uh get quite a bit of distinctions. I'm quite happy. And still nothing from dentistry.

SPEAKER_03 48:39

Yeah, nothing. Blue ticking, you like it's not a good thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

Like Pretoria says Pretoria says nothing. And obviously, meaning you reject it. Yeah. So the dentistry dream falls off. And now engineering and I easily get acceptance in engineering. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna study computer engineering. Yeah, it's so I I get an apartment, everything starts setting up to go to talks. Um Pretoria, in Hattfield. In Pretoria, in Hatfield, and I'm like, yeah, I'm ready to go to talks. So we start uni the Monday, Saturday is like orientation day. The Thursday, I get an email early in the morning, it's like seven o'clock. Hi Levon, hope you're well. Uh, there's still space in dentistry, and we see you're on the waiting list. Just wondering if you're still interested. I reply in seven minutes. I get a reply again in 12 minutes. My reply is, yes, ma'am, this is my dream. Like, you know, talking about it, like, oh, this would be amazing. I'll just love the opportunity. Can I come to Vratoria and speak to you guys? You know, can I do an interview? What's the process? Everything. You were still in Joburg at the time. I was still in Joburg and I'm like replying to this email from home. And then 12 minutes later, she replies and says, Okay, cool, switch to you. I go, I open the puddle, and I'm switched from computer engineering to the industry. Oh wow. You see, not like rough content.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

This is why you must check your email, boy. This is the moral of the story is make sure you check your email, but push notifications. Push. Yeah. Because Yak would have just he would have looked at it like three business days later. And his dream would have been, that's amazing, what a great story.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

And then um and then the day I got accepted, uh But you didn't tell your parents.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

You didn't you you're busy replying, yeah No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

So I remember I actually remember the story so well. Yeah. Um I was gonna go to the university anyway because I was gonna sort out my student card because we start on the Monday, but I'm like, everyone's gonna go Friday, Saturday, Sunday to get their student cards. I don't want to do all of that. I'm just gonna sort out on Thursday. And um I'm I'm upstairs and it's like in the morning, we're going like it's like eight o'clock. I'm about to go in the shower. I'm like, I scream downstairs. Mom, the university emailed me that there's an opportunity. I'm just gonna apply.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

You must have been much more excited. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

I was like screaming, I was like, mom, I'm just gonna reply. And then um, yeah, so then I hop in the shower, I send the email, hop in the shower, come out, and then like as I'm changing, I get a notification on my watch. Yeah, I'm like, oh, it's cool, switch to you. What does that mean? Open my phone and then I'm like, wow, done. And my mom's like, I'm just like, did you not want to consider it? Did you not want to think about it again? I'm like, no, this is my dream. And that day when I was driving to Pretoria and I was going to the university, I'm like, all of it is worth it. All the trials and tribulations of my trick and suffering through that and sitting there, those like dark days where my head is like, I can't even get my thoughts straight. And I'm like hating my life. It was all worth it. And I'm like, now I'm living my dream. Can live in Pretoria, study my dream degree, and like just had like a second, like a second chance. And all in the space of a shower.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

Yeah. Maybe. I think you watered that story now. No point intended. No, that's true. You hopped in the shower, yeah. Maybe you didn't even get it. You're getting ready to put your gel in your hair, and then next thing your phone rings, and like I mean, your watch buzzes. It's like you've been switched to the industry. That's so cool. Yeah. Okay, so then like four days later, you go, Oh, you went and got your student card then the same day.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Yeah, I go, I go up to the university and uh well, I'm going to get my student card anyway. So I go there and like I'm frantic looking for someone to speak to about the switch. Like, did the switch go through? What's going on? Like, what happened, right? And you must also remember the medical campuses in a different spot. Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask.

SPEAKER_03 52:12

Yeah. How does it work in Batoria? It's everything. Go to main campus, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

So so you get your shooting card and stuff all from main campus, but um the medical campus is like about 15 minutes away from main campus. So there's no no one there knows what dentistry, anything. So I'm like, fancy, I'm looking for like anyone. The people who are doing the shooting cards are just students themselves. They're like fourth years, they're just helping out volunteering. So they're like, we don't we don't know what to do about all of this, right? Eventually I get to someone.

SPEAKER_03 52:37

And they're also like, you don't look like a Fun Royan.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah, God. Yeah. Impersonate. Go on. So then they get um, they finally get someone like from a bit higher up. Yeah. And uh they speak to me and they're like, so like we heard you got switched, and they're like, Can we open your portal? I open my portal, I pull up the proof registration, they're like, no, if you have this, you're set. Okay. Like you rock up on med campus on Monday with this, you're guaranteed this is your spot. And I'm like, that's it, done. And they're like, Yeah, yeah. Didn't need an interview, nothing. Amazing. All from just one email thread.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

That's so cool. And um did you end up then staying in the same apartment? Like I did.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

I did. Well, so at the University of Victoria, in your first six months, you spent on main campus. Yeah. But I think they are changing that. I think they're changing the syllabus. So I heard something about that. But as it stands now, as of this year and last year, your first six months of first year, you spend on main campus. Were you doing general, like general subjects, BSC subjects basically? So you're doing chemistry, physics, molecular biology, which was extremely tough because I didn't take biology. Yeah. So I was seeing everything and the new stuff for the first time.

SPEAKER_03 53:43

There's also a great lesson in the story, and I I don't think it's so uncommon, eh? Because now that I think about one of my previous guests, I don't know if you watched the episode about the vet, um, Lero Majority. Well, uh the episode is called Black Gay and Almost a Vet, where he's standing at Pretoria Main Campus in the registration queue to register for vet science, because that's what he got accepted to. And then somebody calls him from the university and says, Hey, there's a space in dentistry, and then he just leaves the line and he goes and changes. You must watch that episode too. But didn't it even happen with your um with your sister also? Like she got in last minute to to medicine because our uncle went and checked if there were any cancellations on the day. That happened, something like that. These things can happen on the day or a few days before. Yeah, and I always I don't know. What it's telling me is that there's the the paperwork side of it, uh admin side of medicine and dynasty is just the puts. What? No, it's it's universal. Because remember, people do cancel. Yeah. People don't accept their places. Somebody might have gone and gone to UWC or something. It should be like, I mean, it's not like an airline, it's not like a flight you're about to board and then they're like putting people out of the thing.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

But that's the reality. The thing is, if someone wants to study dentistry and medicine, you don't just choose it like a degree. You can't just close your eyes and be like dentistry and medicine. That's someone's dream. So when, like me, when they send an email and you reply in four minutes, they know. That's your dream. That's your dream.

SPEAKER_03 55:07

They know you, they're gonna and that's also why I feel bad for for having done dentistry, because I might have taken the spot of somebody who really wanted it, and I just got it because I thumb sucked.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

That's that is true. Yeah, that is true. But then it also comes back to that whole, like I was speaking about the DATs and all of that stuff. And I know actually, I knew a guy, I'm obviously not gonna name him, yeah, who when someone asked him, Are you sure you want to do dentistry? And he wasn't he wasn't sure. He was like, I wanted to be a medical doctor. Yeah, of course. But you can only became a dentist. Yeah, no, no, he's studying, but he's still studying dentistry now. But you can only apply for medicine or dentistry. So I think obviously you apply at Vitz for medicine, and then you're like, okay, I really want to go to Vitz. But if I don't get in, I'll take dentistry at Pretoria. Little do they know, dentistry at Pretoria is actually more competitive if you think about it. Is it? Because there's less spaces. Um than medicine. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it in medicine there's 300 spaces, in dentistry there's 50. In my class, I'm the only Indian male. Okay. So the well other Indian. There's mostly women in the class now. Yeah. It's uh it's insane. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

The amount like the woman to even our even our yeah, it was by the that this is I qualified in 2010. What do you think that's a prerequisite or that's just the people that are applying? Don't know.

SPEAKER_01 56:21

There is they they do um do it's called designated class systems. Oh, really? So they there is a certain number of like not call it then.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

Designated class systems.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

I think I I think it's something, I don't know. I don't know if they call it that. But there's um yeah, it does sound wrong, actually. But or designated groups. Yeah. I think it's designated groups. That sounds right. Yeah, it sounds a bit better. Designated groups, and you get grouped based on what race you are. So there's like group one, group two, group three, um, blacks and colors in group one, and then it'll be like female blacks in group two or whatever, like that. So the groups are, and there's specific spaces for those groups. So they they it's open, it's on the study guides and everything that this is how many spaces they have for this demographic. And it also includes things like which quintile school you went to. So that's uh, you know, like how much income a school has from what area, people out of province. And I know as well that there's more spaces for a public school than for an IEB school, which is a private school. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:16

So I mean your guys' classes uh look much more diverse than when I was there. I because remember I came and lectured recently and it it struck me like wow, a lot a lot more transformed than what it was when I was there. Really? Yeah, definitely. And remember, I finished in 2010, so it's 15 years ago. So understandably it is going to be changed.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

But yeah, okay, that makes sense. And when you finished, it was mostly male. Uh no, I think it was still more women. Yeah. Yeah, even now. But it's it's it's funny because you look at like the healthcare industry as in hospitals and dentistry, and you still feel like it's male dominated.

SPEAKER_03 57:48

Yeah, it's probably there'll be some lag. But uh dentistry as far as and that probably goes to your ex question is do you think it's maybe just more women are applying for dentistry? Who knows? I don't know. I don't see it.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

If they're not doing it on a male-female thing, so if they're not even looking at whether what gender someone is, the females are all gonna get in, there's gonna be no space for males. Because on average, the a female student in high school scores higher than a male student. You think so? Yeah, 100%. 100% I believe in that. Okay. Because if you go look at the average for boys' schools, as in what their metric average is, not Jeppy though. We were we always get great results.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

But the other boys' schools. I hope so. They don't have to.

SPEAKER_01 58:32

They don't have to, but the other crappy boys' schools in German, uh they um yeah, and compared to the girl schools, the girl schools always score much higher. Okay, okay. I think, yeah, obviously there are exceptions, but I think females on average just tend to score higher. They're smarter than us.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

The women are smarter than us, let's be honest. But um, so when you then that Thursday, so the next few what three, four days later you go to dental.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Yeah, I'm like figuring things out, and I'm like, oh crap, I need to go to the medical school now. Yeah. And then so I yeah, I get to the medical school, and then I'm like, this is so exciting. This is like I the day I got accepted, I was like one of the best days of my life. Yeah. Yeah. I was just like, no, this is a dream. Who takes you? Your parents take you there? What's that? To to the campus and everything. Um yeah, I went to my mom, but I had my license and I drove. Oh, you drove you drove yourself up.

SPEAKER_03 59:20

She sure he allowed you to get back in a car. This one was uh liberal family. No, also he's like you're very like, what's the word? We use the word motivated enthusiastic, like a high high achiever. He's a high achiever. From young. Like, uh yeah, I think so. Yeah. Where do you get this from? Do you have any idea? What's that? Like this kind of mentality and approach. Because remember, what what made me think about it was when you said, you know, you almost died, and you're thinking about your career and your future. Like, uh, most kids that age would probably just be thinking, okay, cool, I get to get off school for a month. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 59:57

But obviously, it's where do you think it comes from? Um, I think my mom, my dad, yeah, obviously they inspired me a lot. Uh any siblings? No, I don't, I'm an only child. Okay. Um, but I think, yeah, my parents inspired me a lot. It was funny, so I used to get like good results, but not like wasn't top in the class, especially like in before high school and in high school and things, like in the grade eight, grade nine years. And my mom, I think in grade 10 was like kind of wasting, kind of wasting your talent. Like you you're really smart, just focus. She had a little bet with me that if I can make the top 10, she'll buy me something. Okay. Like a it was a gift. Uh actually it was a pool table. I really wanted a pool table at the time. So she was like, I'll buy you a pool table if you make the top 10. And now I already did term one, term two at JP. I'm like a 70, like 70 student. It's okay, it's nothing crazy. She's like, okay, in term three, if you make top 10. I sat down that whole term and I'm just like, right, let's go. And I'm not a kid who studies for like hours. I I don't study the whole week, and then like two days before the test, I just we lock it in. And then like the night before the test can pull like a four-hour shift, ready, wake up in the morning, go right and smash it. That term three of grade 10, I still remember it, and I like knocked it out of the park.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:08

You see, like these are the notes I should be taking because I need to learn for about incentives for my kid. Yeah, pool table. No, no, I mean you know you've got to give them an incentive. That clearly worked for you. Yeah, it did. I didn't get the pool table. Why did you want to get into JP? You can get the pool table.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

Wow. No, no, no. I didn't, I didn't get the I didn't, I didn't get the pool table. I didn't get the pool table. Well, she would have got it. We went and we looked, but I was just like, yeah. I think after I so it's not like she just uh not like she just no no no no no we had a we're like you were gonna go there, you had the option to get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:40

Yeah, we were like no, we're like this. Why not? Like the pool table don't fit okay home, and it's just gonna look whack.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

And we were like gonna get on like one fancy dining room once.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:48

Maybe she knew that this would happen eventually. And like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

I think she would have got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

My mom's my mom and I, we had a close bond. She would. She's a small one. Why did you man of a word?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:57

She's a man of a word. Come on. Uh brilliant. But why did you want to get into Jeppy also? Like, because that also made me it sort of like made me interested. You said you really wanted to get into Jeppy.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

So I was applying. So I went to a small private school. Yes. In Madrid. The small one. A small one. Uh where there's geez, I think 200 people in the high school. Yeah. The entire high school, right? Um, and like this was now my years leading up to Creative Green Line. Was it co-ed? It was co-ed. Yeah. And it was small and it was expensive. Yeah. And it's funded by a board and they're a public company and all of this stuff. Yeah. So they run it like a company. That's not a school.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:36

And um, but which school kid thinks like this now? You did you think about this? What's that? Like all the things you're saying, you know, it's funded by a board and this and that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

Like um my mom, I think my mom planted the things. Okay, okay. And then but obviously, obviously, she gave me full agency. Right. She's like, it's it's up to you if you want to leave or not. Are you happy? And I was like, I'm okay. Yeah. Like, I'm I'm okay. And then she's like, You you're quite smart and you get good marks, but you could do be doing better. Yeah. You could be recognized more, you could have more opportunities. And then we're like, no, let's just look at a public school. Because I also then did some research and realized that if you go to public school, you have a higher chance of getting into university. And um, all you can that's the entire point of high school is get good enough marks, prepare you for your metric exams so that you can go and get into university.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:21

Okay, this makes sense, yeah. Is Jeppy a public school? Jeff is a public school, it's like DHS, yeah. Kes also, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, Kes as well, public school. Yeah, but like model C types.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

Yeah, so it's I say board and sponsor and stuff. Jeffy is also very highly funded by the old boys and stuff like that and sponsorships. And that's I mean, the government gives them like nothing. The government, I don't think, will even keep the lights on. Okay. Like it's not it's not enough, right? Yeah, um, and then I'm like, so I apply Jeppy, Kes, Parktown, Pretoria Boys. That's the big four public schools in in Joburg. Um, and I'm like, I'll go to anyone. So I get an interview at Pretoria Boys, and oh I actually then then they say no, you can't come for the interview, whatever. And the whole reason was is I stayed in Midran. Yeah, because of where you live. And it's it's like if they do the overlap of the circles, Joburg to Midran, it's about 30k, the circle, so it misses it. Pretoria Boys to Midran is also the 30k overlap and it it misses it. So you're like in the grey area in the in-between. Yeah, missing middle. Yeah, you are you're in the missing middle class, and um, and now like can't can't get in anyway. Um, so my mom, it's like she's trying to speak to people, she's trying to like email whoever and everything. Now I'm so oblivious. I'm just going to school in grade eight, grade nine, COVID years, at home watching YouTube, you don't even, I don't even care. I didn't, my mom did like so much because she knew, and I'm so glad she did. That also was the biggest was the best decision I could have made. The biggest change I made, and the best decision I could have made was going to to public boys' school.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:56

Okay, yeah. So your mom played a very big role. My mom did. My mom's kudos to her.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

Everything. Yeah, I give all props to her. I mean, she knew what she knew what I needed because she knew me.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

What are you gonna buy her when you when you get your probably a bush?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

No, my mom always asked for well, she always used to say one business class ticket somewhere around the world. Okay. Once a year. And then today she mentioned two.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

Yeah, it sounds like a now she mentioned two business class tickets a year. And I'm like, is it keep going up?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:23

Well, you do just do the pool table thing. Yeah, yeah. Take it to the to the flight center or whatever. It'd be like, nah. It's won, yeah, yeah, yeah. But nah the wall won't be going on that long. Okay, cool. So what's what's it like being a dental student now?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:37

What's a well compared to the year? You are what yeah? Second year. Okay. So compared to high school, it's it's different. Um, obviously. I think when you study dentistry and medicine, you're not just studying a degree. There's a very big difference. You're training to become a doctor. I think there's very few degrees that do that. I think like dentistry, medicine, vet science, maybe. Some of the other healthcare degrees, then you're not just getting a piece of paper at the end. They're training you to be qualified, to be a professional. And that's very different to what I think most other university students experience. And in high school, they don't prepare you for that. They prepare you to go get a degree. They prepare you how to study for a test and write a test and write exams and pass and do all of this and go to class on time and cut your hair and shave and look neat. You know? They don't prepare you for that stuff. When did the earrings come in?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:25

After my trick. That's it. How come?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

I don't know. Yeah. Kind of suits suits me though.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:33

Some celebrity must have inspired this.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

Nah, I don't I don't know. It was actually spontaneous. I think I was at the mall with my cousin. You just did it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:40

Why not? It suits you. It looks cool. I like it. I don't think we I could pull it off. What do you mean, pull it off? Have a thing in my ear, like probably walking. Have you seen your hair? No, I meant like from a not from a looks perspective. I think I'll get motion sickness, like lean. Motion sickness. The diamonds are so big. Oh yeah. But I'm sure Yash is asking this question more so about what do what do Petoria think about? What is you? Oh no, I don't think about that. It's a good point. Have you seen the one clip of mine that went? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

They made you shave. Oh, shave, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's ridiculous. Now we we read a formal complaint to get that supervisor fired. Things have changed, dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:20

Things are different now. It's a different world out there. I'm sure the supervisors are all afraid to like put one foot wrong with this gen. This gen is hectic. Yeah. And their parents will also. You heard about that. No what? Like, okay, I've heard of cancel culture. Yeah, yeah, cancel. I'm talking about it specifically. No, no, okay. And we probably wouldn't discuss that. That's not true. No, it is true. Things are different these days. Like things are things are different. Imagine telling a student go shave before or take those earrings off. What if it's like a cultural thing or religious thing?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

Yeah, everything's very PC now.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

Very, very PC.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:55

So it is, it is different. But I I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:57

Did you ever have um a feeling where like, oh gosh, I should have done meatatronics?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:03

Yeah, when you're sitting there in the head and neck exam and you're like, wow. Yeah, it's a Thursday.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

Sitting there you're scrolling through like crap.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:11

Or physiology, you know. Yeah, because it's anatomy now, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:14

Yeah, and you're like turning pages and you're like, I don't know anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:16

Do you guys still do the full body anatomy? Dissection and everything. Full body. You go there to BMW and uh campus, uh, what's it, basic medical science? Yeah, BMS. Yeah. BMS. Yeah. You go to that dissection hall. And do they still give you that thing where like before you start, I think a priest or a pastor or somebody comes and talks to you guys and says, you know, now you're gonna be dealing with a dead body.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

And we didn't have that, but the the lecturers, the professors, they prepared us for it. So um they told us like this is reality. These are like actual people, like cadavers, and you're gonna now you're gonna dissect. And we dissect three times a week. So Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. You have a small lecture before, it's about 45 minutes, like an hour. Uh doesn't usually go longer than an hour, but it's the content on what you're gonna go dissect. And then yeah, that's at eight. You start dissecting about like 9, 9:30. Walk into the cadaver, it smells awful.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:08

Formalin, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:09

Yeah, and then you guys all know what it smells like, and you'll never ever forget that smell. Smells awful, it makes you sick, and you don't want to eat, you have no appetite, but then the chemical has an effect that makes you hungry. So you're standing there, you can't be bothered to eat, but you're hungry, and you're looking, and you gotta dissect and you gotta find structures and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:28

Are you guys um still like do you still do it with like the med students or is it just dental students?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

No, it's just the dentistry students. So it's just it's just our group, and then the med students will have a different time slot in the year to where they but you all get fresh bodies. So we started on a body that's completely uncut and then you gotta dissect it from there.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:45

But not necessarily fresh. I mean that part of the case. Oh no, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

Like three years ago.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:49

Yeah, they can make it cut. As in the you have to do it with the medical student. I can't remember, but you know why I ask is because uh one of the l last guests, we haven't published the episode yet, Dr. Lowe, he he's a medical doctor and he met his wife at the dissection table. She's a dentist. Oh, one of my seniors at Denetton. Okay. So I was just thinking, oh, I wonder if they still do it with the medics. I can't remember what we did. No, no, we did it with medics. I remember Shimon was in my group, and yeah, Shimon was just, yeah. Because he's a medical student, that's what I remember him. Yeah, we had to also do it with the medical students. With the medics, yeah. And then you're also thinking, why? Like, why am I why am I doing this? Why am I doing the whole body?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:26

Exactly. No, and and you you think about that all the time, and I think I still think about it. I mean, my anatomy module is everything. So I I speak about head and neck because it was a very tough section, went pretty in-depth in there. But you still have to know everything. Yeah. And you just like that doesn't want to clean teeth and flick calculus.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:44

Yeah. Yeah, but who knows? Maybe like 20 years in the future, like some metacarpal in the minor toe will become like a place where they can cultivate bones. Bones or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:55

But what about the stem cell stuff that they use from the teeth to grow in your eye? Yeah. Yeah. To do like retina surgery and things like that. Have you seen that?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:03

No, uh, that's uh you sure it's real. Uh have you have a microphone? I know it's stem in Japan. There's a university in Japan that's actually doing stem cell research to cultivate butts. I always see those videos circulating on what's real. I always think to myself, is this real or what? You know. But but like some universities they don't do the full body anatomy, I think. Like uh Wits, I don't think they do full dissection.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:24

I don't get because shouldn't we have a universal thing across all the universities in South Africa? Oh yeah, I don't know. You mean it is true that a degree from Witz, Pretoria, UWC, SMU, you're equivalent, you're a dentist. That's it. You're qualified, you we you showed your clinical competence, you deserve to be a dentist. But now why do I have to know more than the other kid?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:47

You know, there's an association that's dedicated to differentiate between the skill level of different universities. It's called SACWA, South African Qualifications Association. And they that's what they do, is they just differentiate between who's more trained and that's I had to go through this association when I came back from Mauritius. And did you have to write exams as well? Yeah, I to write a board exam still. But my degree there was actually valued higher than the degree here. And I still had to write a board exam. So you said no one. Yeah, I'll I'll prove it. I'll bring the red paper. Well, which is the best um dendle school? Why do you say this?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:21

It's kind of loyal, eh? Do you want to do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:22

Yeah, wherever I am, it's uh if you were in UWs, you'd say the same. Yeah, I'd be in Cape Town on the beach. This this interview would be online, it'd be like first time from the beach.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:32

I got accepted to UWC and Pretoria, and then my dad said, nope, you're not going to Cape Town. You know, in Payneford, you're gonna go to Pretoria. Which is in hindsight is a good thing because yeah, who knows what would happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:45

I I love what Pretoria does with in first year, second semester, you do a lot of assisting. So you're assisting the seniors in the clinics and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:53

Oh yeah, tell me about this because we never we never did any dentistry until third year, if I remember correctly. Nothing to do with dentistry. So yeah, so we I they changed that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:03

And which is a great thing because you develop your soft skills. Yeah, tell tell us. Which also separates a lot of people because now you know what my soft skills are weak. So in first year, first semester, you're in normal campus, you're in normal clothes, it's boring. Yeah, you're just there, yeah, you're in civis, you're there with the rest of the kids, PSCs, like everyone. What subjects? Like um there's like medical psychology, medical philosophy, chemistry, microbiology. NTL, medical terminology. Medical terminology, the only one that actually matters. Um it helps a lot. It helps and physics, which also useless. And I take this with yeah, the BSE students who all are gunning for your spot in medicine and dentistry, and they will tell that to your face, like, hey, fail for me next year. Good yeah. Like, yeah, and that puts the pressure on when you speak to them and they're like, no, I'm and then you're like, yo, this guy like really smashed his results. He's like, no, I'm trying to get into med next year. Yeah. And you're like, wow, okay. And they just they smash it. Like, bear them my high school marks, their GPAs are like through the roof. I think that they put you guys in the same way.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:04

Yeah, you're in a big lecture hall.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:06

It's like 600, 700 people in there. Just push you down the stairs. Like, ah, there's a spot. Do you do MLB? Yeah, MLB. MLB, I did an anti-semester. Yeah. I wrote that on what's that? MLB. Um every year I had a sub. What's an anti-semester? So MLB is like a, isn't it a semester course or something?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

Yeah, so it's uh it's one semester course. So if you're anti-semester, you failed in in the first semester. Yeah. So you're gonna do it in the second semester now. But it's a first semester course. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:32

So you're just taking on more than yeah. Okay, so you do all those things, but then where's the soft skills? Tell me about that now.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:38

So yeah, you do all of that and you don't feel like you're studying dynasty. Yes. And you're surrounded by like if you go walk on campus and you're chilling in the cafeteria, surrounded by all the BCOM students and everything, and you're like, there is no older medicine because they're all on mid-campus. So then you just you're just like, oh, I'm just a university student. Now you're feeling a bit lost.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:56

On main campus, do you do you still have like that there's like a kick there? The Malu's will sit there and they'll have their own group. You know, you never you don't know about Malu, huh? No, what's the what's the Malu? You never know. Malayali. Malayali. Like the first time I've came across Malayali people was at the University of Pretoria. Oh no, I love them. I love them. I mean, like I've got friends with my Maluus, but I never knew that they were. No. It's short for Malayalam. You don't know this, huh? You haven't yet? You haven't even. Or you haven't integrated yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:23

Well, um the the campus is still, like, they still got the clicks and stuff. And then, like, you know, the cafeteria there, they're still the Indian guys playing Tani. Okay, so they're there. As if they don't go to class, then they will be there no matter what. Yeah. It must be the lowest students. It must be the lowest students.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:39

So what do you where do you go then? Because you lived on your own, right? Or not really?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:42

Um I I have a roommate, and then but I stayed in Hatfield. Okay. So it wasn't far to main campus. You still stay there now? I still stay in Hatfield now, but now I I drive to to main campus. And then, yeah, so then for six months you're there, yeah. And you're just like, you're just going through the motions and trying to pass. But also, and I I say this, this is your first time out of high school. You're surrounded by people who's also it's their first time out of high school. It's your undergraduate degree, and you finally got freedom. You're you're legal, you can go to the yeah, earrings, you can go down to the bottle store and buy as much alcohol as you want and not come to campus, and no one is gonna say anything. Your mother's listening, yeah. Yeah, she's watching. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:20

I'm not cutting it. And no one's uh and no one's gonna no one's gonna know. Yeah, no one's gonna know. No one cares.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:25

No one cares you come to lecture, no one's sending you a message or yeah, no one's gonna know. And yeah, that's that's what like university like. So it's it's very exciting. And there's always something happening. I mean, people are going out every night in Pretoria.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:38

Where do they go in Pretoria? Because Hatfield Square is no longer a thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:41

Yeah, Hatfield Square is closed down, but there's still the strip on Linwood Road. The strip, okay. Yeah, which has the few clubs there.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:47

Was Lizard Lounge there back in the day? I don't know. Oh, I don't know. What's the strip? Where is it? Tell me. It's on Linwood Road. Yeah, Linwood, okay. So Duncan becomes like is it Duncan near there? No.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:56

So if you're coming from campus and you head out the gate onto Linwood Road, you can see it. Uncle Foeszies? Uncle Falsey's where Uncle Falsey was, there's now there's clubs on the left and on the right. Yeah. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:07

Yeah. What happened to Falzi Uncle? It's still there, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:10

He's still there. And he's open, the only place open at like 2 a.m. Yeah. That's where you get a chow. That's where you get a chip. Yeah. Because you it's in between. You get a shawama there? It's in between the two clubs and it's cheap. And I don't know, the food is.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:21

Because Hatfield Square was there.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:22

Hatfield Square was there, but they closed it down and say performed in something else. But there's also like other bars and stuff all around and things. There's always something to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:29

Who are your friends?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:30

That's uh the best part.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:32

No, wait, before we get there, because you st I I still haven't heard the part where you said like things have changed and you're getting exposure to industry in first.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:40

Yeah, tell us about where's that? Yeah, so then in second semester you move, you move to Med Campus. It's a bit a bit of a scary move. You move to Prince Off. And it's a bit of a scary move because now a lot of like for me, especially, um, I had a lot of friends in other degrees. So I had a lot of friends in medicine that I was sitting with, and we all had the same subjects. So we're sitting in lectures the whole time together, and those are like my people now, and that's what I'm used to. And then you have in every degree in in PSC and someone doing like teaching and who takes your subjects, like MLB or something like that. It's in every degree. Um yeah, and then you move to Prince Off, and now you're just with the Dennis U kids. So it's a bit now. You're like, oh, I went from 600 to 50 people, and I'm not really friends with any of these people. Yeah, in like in well, yeah, after six months, after the first six months. And now you're like, I just built my life and now it's completely changed. So that is a bit scary. And I it gets everywhere. It just it's like a shock to the system. It's like basically, it's almost like changing a degree because now you and now you feel like a dentist.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:40

Going back to high school, it's like going back to high school almost because you get the class is small, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:44

Yeah, the class is the class is small. You're on a new campus that you don't know. There's all the kids who all know what's going on, and they're all telling you, we're gonna fail, this thing is hard, you know what you're in for. You're just standing there.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:54

You're like a grade eight.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:55

Yeah, you like your grade eights, and you're there with your new scrubs.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

Scrubs are like freshly ironed, the embroidery is fresh. Yeah, and then you're standing there like, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you like, yo, you're like lost. What's going on? What I don't know what to expect. And they're telling you, no, medicine takes lives. Like, this place is this place is bad. Like to get out of here, run from Prince Off, it's scary. This is what I have to study. And you see the notes, and you're just like, it's all too much. It's it's overloaded. And it does, it scares you, it's overwhelming. And but they you do some very good subjects. You take anatomy in second semester, so there's other subjects, histology, things like that, osteology. Um yeah, and then there's also one it's called integrated dentistry, IDE. What's that now? So that's a subject where they teach you dentistry content. So they teach you things from everything from like the but all the basics, all the basic stuff. So like the tools you use, like what different parts of the chair called, all of that stuff. But a big portion, that it's not a very tough module, but the big portion of that module is your assisting hours. Oh. And then you get to go into the clinic during certain times of the week and you know, the oral dental hospital, and then you get to assist the upperclassmen fourth and fifth years, which are amazing because that's also like a networking opportunity. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:06

Again, what's that called? Upperclassmen.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

Yeah, upperclassmen. So, like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:11

What? What? I don't get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:14

What's funny? Just leave them out of it. Just leave him out of it. Yeah, I'm lost. You find out in the edits. Like upper class. No, but upperclassmen means higher classes. I know, they could have they could have freedom. No, it sounds very that sounds very like correct to me. But anyway, yeah, yeah. No, but this is cool because we're not. So you're assisting. I like I never saw the industry until third year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:34

So they're real patient. Well, they're real patients, and they're patients. And it's amazing because they they're telling you, ah, this is what it's like, this is what second year is like, this is what third year is like.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:42

So who did you do you remember who you assisted in?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:44

Yeah, I even so I'll even give him a shout-out to Dr. Sean. Dr. Sean. Yeah. So he Surname, you know. Um Karim Meng, I think. So it's quite a long set. Karimeng. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, Sean is so he was our first year guardian.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:00

What? Okay, what's that? Like the.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:02

So he in fifth year, he's responsible for the first years. See, that's a better term. That's cool, man. So he's a first year guardian. So he had all our numbers and we met him in the first six months and everything. And um, like he met us on the day one and he's like, no, here's what you know, classes are like and what normal camp like main campus is like and everything. Well, when you guys come to Prince Off, you know, then we'll see you and stuff. And now he's just finishing up.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:23

Sounds so much better than how it was for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:24

Yeah, and then when then I like you can make I just message Sean and be like, what days are you, what days are you like free? Like, when can I come assist you? And remember you had a pediatric patient and I had some extra time. I was just like, Can I just come to the clinic and assist? And I just go with him and we assist and he teaches you things and he tells you about like this is how to get through this module and all of that stuff. But you you get like someone new, like you you just walk into the clinic and you find a fourth or fifth year who's busy with the patient, you say, Hey, can I assist you? So you don't know who you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:50

Well, it's all good for like integration, it's great. It's it's when did this come out? You think it's new? No, it's definitely not it. Yeah, yeah. It was there a while ago. Yeah, so cool in the 90s.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't know if dentistry was the same back then.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:06

I don't know either. I don't know either, dude. But they get patience to assist. So now tell me, with this, it also gives people the opportunity to see what dentistry really is about. And were there any people in your class that didn't say no, like I'm leaving?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:23

I mean, we there is less people in my class than there was last year.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:27

Not because they failed.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:28

Well, some did fail. Yeah. Unfortunately, and I know they don't speak about that enough. Yeah. Failing in medicine and dentistry is like almost normalized. But you don't understand it until you study medicine and dentistry. But it's like like it happens. Yeah, it it just it just happens, like it's a thing that happens. Yes, Mr. Overachiever, welcome to the real world people fail.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:47

Yeah, this is not a you're stating this as if it's like a thing. People know that people fail.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:51

No, but in medicine and dentistry, it's just like, yeah, just doing an extra year.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:55

It's university, it's real life. People fail. Yeah. You you've been exposed to too much like high achieving in your life. It's normal. Okay, but but but uh so you don't know if anybody that's just said, okay, I'm this is not for me, I'm quitting.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:07

Yeah, well, I haven't I don't know yet. Okay, no. Because when you don't know, I don't know yet, because when the people that didn't pass last year come back to do second semester. There's no like farewell and stuff. Yeah, no, they just they just leave. Actually, the the funniest thing is the results will come out for like the last exam or whatever. And then they'll they'll send a message on the group, results out. Everyone will react with like a cry emoji because you know it's tough and things, right? And then what group? WhatsApp? Like a yeah, like a WhatsApp group. We all got a WhatsApp group. Well, 20 minutes later, we'll just see.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:36

And you don't you haven't you don't have the contact saved, left the group. Left the group, left the group, was removed.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:43

Let me tell you something that might blow your mind. Like when I was in university, there was no WhatsApp, it had just come out. Um that's all that's ridiculous. Yes, we didn't have WhatsApp. There was BB, people were into BBM, yeah. And I was like one of the first few people to have an iPhone, and people were like, ah, how can you have an iPhone? It doesn't have anything. I'm a visionary, right? Uh but because BBM was the big thing, there was no WhatsApp. We didn't have like proper internet on campus, nothing. Imagine, eh? Different time.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:11

And also like past papers. Did they was that a thing?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:15

Past papers, you're asking the wrong person, yeah. But wait, wait, wait. Let me tell you this story. Yeah, you guys had a WhatsApp group, right? But it's still there's like an anonymity there. Like because when you post the results, there's you don't know who's failed or who's passed. You just see people that depend on the people.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:30

No, they don't post results, you go through your portal and check your own results.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:32

So yeah, so you can't. Yeah, yeah. At my university, everyone gathers in a hall, like a main hall, like Harry Potter, you know, you're about to get swarted. They go through batch by batch, they will name people, they'll say those who failed. And they will name you. You gotta stand up and leave the room as you fail.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:50

In front of everyone. But that's some good motivation not to fail, though. That's some good motivation. You would think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:55

Well, I heard the story about you. Which one? Which one? The one where he was the only dental students.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:02

Yeah. He was the only student in his class.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:03

What was I just what is that? So what did what was the teaching like this? They just sat down and one-on-one.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like this, actually, to be honest. That's why he's such a great dentist. Uh didn't he tell you? Because he had one-on-one. Yeah. You kind of have to be. Yeah, you know. Private tutoring. Yeah, yes, you're gonna have to be. So did did you like smash every test afterwards or how the I guess so. It was it wasn't difficult for me because then you the stuff is being forced into your head. It's not then when you go back home, you're just like a refresher, basically. Because you had to listen.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:37

And you do that for how many years? Two years. So one-on-one dentistry technique.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:43

It might be one of the few people in the world that's had this. Yeah, we must we must actually check up on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:48

Because if someone gets like one-on-one like tuition tuition, right? Then but you can't be qualified to be a dentist. Like, there's no formal institution that's gonna do that. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:58

But that's what I'm saying. You might be the only one. That's what I'm saying. We must check up on this. Yeah, I don't know who we're gonna ask, but we'll figure it out. If you know anybody. If anyone, if anyone out there knows anybody, yeah. Does anybody know of a university, of a graduate that most skilled dentists? Most um I wouldn't say skilled, but like the loneliest. Not the lonest, but like the most no bras. I can't think of the word, but yeah, you got the most attention. Who are your your friends uh in in school? In dental school, my friends were mostly medics because also the with us the first two years, it I could have gone through the first year and second year and not known any dental student because of the way our team was structured. Yeah, whereas you now you guys are all forced after six months.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:43

Yeah, at least we split. So in the that six months, the first six months, you could be like that. Yeah. We don't know any dental students, but you also know that you're eventually gonna end up with only dentistry students in your class. It doesn't make sense for you not to have friends in dentistry, otherwise you're gonna and the people, some people came that side like when they switch it over and they're like, oh crap, I'm kind of alone now. Yeah. Um that was me. Yeah, it's and that's a scary thing. For two years, yeah. Yeah. But uh my friends are like, well, it has to be the dental students. And we're still a small group, there's only four of us, and like my friend group, but we're tight and we there for each other and we make sure like everyone's helping each other work and name some names. So don't watch.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:17

No, don't name names. Your flat your flatmates?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:19

My uh my flatmates are actually no no no. Um they're studying political science, and so but I moved in with my two best friends from they we we went to high school together, so they stay in the other apartments also in my but in my flats.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:33

Oh, so you've changed now, you've moved place?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:35

No, no, no. So they they own they have an apartment also in my building and they stay there, and then I stay with my roommates in another apartment. But yeah, we all stay there.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:44

So how's the apartment life? Like you have your own separate rooms and it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:47

Yeah, yeah, and a shared uh kitchen and shared lounge. It's it's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:51

It's kind of like a dick privileged light to this guy. I mean, we didn't have to go to Rares or anything. Yeah, yeah. I've had field. I mean, isn't that like uh the Santa of Pretoria? Yeah. Something like that. No, the center of Pretoria is mainland main. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:03

Pretoria Pretoria going like east side and stuff like that is uh yeah, is very, very fancy. But um everyone's staying in Hatfield. You're sitting at University of Pretoria, you're staying in Hatfield or around Hatfield. And you're everything is five minutes from each other. I mean, I'm very blessed I have a car, but if you didn't have a car, you could get over that you could walk or Uber everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:23

So what's life with like a second like a second what's the life of a second year dental student at Pretoria like? So do you go to class in the morning or yeah?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:29

Well, thirst year is tough. I mean it's it's and it's only gonna get tougher, I know that. But um yeah, you go to class on print stuff in the morning, and either there's sections or some usually well, the sections three times a week, and most of the time you're studying for a test. There's always a test looming around the corner and things like that. So in between classes, some people go to the library and stuff like that. I don't do much study on campus, but you come home, chow, maybe see your friends or whatever, and then you have to. You gotta do some studying, and otherwise you just fall behind. So you try and do an hour and stuff. And my problem is that I kind of still like high school me. When there's a test like next week, I'm like, yeah, okay. So we start studying next week. Yeah, yeah. And then I'll just like three days before the test just start like going crazy and grinding the whole day and all of that, which I know is wrong and I should be. But then again, I have like a low stress life most of the time until the test comes around.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:22

Yeah, that's fine. Whatever works for you. Do you guys still use textbooks?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:25

Uh nah. Not at all. What do you not at all? Everything is a slideshow.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:29

On your what? Yeah, but what even an app, like uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:32

So we use the platform we use is uh it's called ClickUp. That's where it's Blackboard, but click UP. Yeah, click up, yeah. Yeah. Very, very funny. And you use a uh use a yeah, you log in, you log in, you can log into it now on your iPad. You can log into my one. Don't look at anything. You show us of kids.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:49

But it must be so easier for students. Life is so nice, yeah. Yeah, and then so you also get three-dimensional understanding of things as opposed to like a piece of. Oh, yes, good point. So you like unpack then? So yeah, so you can uh how do you look at it?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:03

What's a textbook for anatomy like? They there is no prescribed textbook. I mean, I do I do use some physical textbooks because I enjoy it. Like I enjoy tripping through pages and like seeing stuff and writing it down and things like that. Um, but everything I don't even use a laptop. Do you even know what a netter is? Yeah, I have one. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:18

Okay netters, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:19

Don't just check. And I might have to use it next year.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:22

You saw the netters also in my presentation. Remember, uh, were you in that show? Yeah, I was. I was in the fourth year one. The one with the cigarettes on the yeah. Did you did you hear about that presentation that he gave? Yeah, I've never been to that one. No, you have. What the social media one? Yeah, the social media one. But not that specific one, but I have been to it. Yeah, yeah. So you remember there's a slide with the netters on it. And the cigarettes on the netters. Go on. But now, hold on. So you everything you can do on your iPad.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:50

Everything. I don't even have I don't use a laptop. Actually, my laptop's in at home, like home home, filmers. Crazy. And everything is on my iPad. And you just studying is is pretty much they'll tell you, okay, it's these sections. They'll tell you in class as well. Um, they'll tell you it's like sections one to ten. And there's slideshows one to ten. Download the slideshows, I use good notes. Download slideshows, and then learn. Yeah, it's what everyone uses. So that's how I keep all my notes and everything organized.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:18

Okay, I must try that. Yeah. And then can you take your iPad to do you work on patients yet? No, not yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:24

Uh no. Okay. No, not by not by yourself yet. So that's uh fourth year. Third year is pre-clinic. Yeah. And then fourth year you start seeing some real patients and fifth year.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:32

Third year you start doing dentures and all that stuff. Yeah. Is Steve Biko different to Prince Off? Steve Biko is uh is a it's it's attached.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:40

But so how it works is that um there's like the campus, there's a south and a north campus, and the campus is where all the lectuals are and all the normal stuff. Then there's the oral dental hospital. So that's where all the dentistry students practice denture.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:53

Yeah, that's the only place I've been to.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:54

Yeah, so that's where all the dentistry students are. Then the medical students, they either get sent to Steve Biko, Tuan Edistrict, Caliphang Hospital, Tembisa, and they practice medicine there. So Steve Biko is like attached. Well, Steve Beaco is actually like behind, but it's an academic hospital. So they still do a lot of teaching and things there.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:13

So you've got three and a half years left, right?

unknown 1:32:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:17

If everything goes well, which it will because you're that type. You know, you're not a you you won't fit. Um I won't say that. You yeah, it's fine. We knock on wood. Um, but um because you know, this gets the AI, so I use AI also to clean up the audio. Yeah. So that that thing will get AI'd out, that you're knocking on wood. No, knocking on it. Yeah, okay. What have you you have you thought ahead? Like, what's the plans?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:41

Yeah, I um I actually want to specialize in pediatrics. Okay. And kids with uh special needs and autism. How come so? Well, that's very inspiring. There's not many people that want to do it. Exactly. I I think well, the the people Why is it inspiring?

SPEAKER_03 1:32:56

Because not many people want to do it. So there's there's I mean, we I don't know if you know Dr. Priel Gasai that's uh Well, I'm aware of her, but I don't know. Yeah, so she's a the South African Pediatric Association, I think she's the person. The Pediodontic Society. Yeah, the Pediodontic Society. And they they organize like um like these outreach programs where they could go and identify kids and they take them to theater, and there's hardly anyone that South African Association of Pediatric Dynasty, S-A-A-P-D. Yeah. Yeah, so there's there's not many people. It's difficult to get volunteers. Us as Sada have also trying to help them, but yeah, why do people want to do it?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:32

Why do I want to do pediatrics? Well, I think it's I think I I don't know, I like working with kids and hesitating them, being a bit, you know, like upbeat. And also I think that no one wants to do it. And why do they deserve like worse tensile treatment? You know, and and to if you could just change a few lives and teach them that going to the dentist is not bad. It can be a positive experience. And you could imagine you make your practice colorful and you know, like playful and the instruments less scary and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:58

When did you realize you want to do this?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:00

When I realized I want to do pediatrics, I pfft No, but especially I was saying inspired, especially from the special needs. The special needs, yeah. So I mean, you know that they all they develop differently as well. So their teeth are all and you actually would have to do quite a lot of studying and research to understand why, because it's very specific and each patient is gonna be different. So I think that's very interesting. Uh I probably decided, I think, I think in in first year.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:26

Yeah. That early. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:28

Because of the shadowing experience?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:30

No, I think it was in like within the first six months. I mean, I was assessed to dentistry. Like from like I honestly probably knew as much as I know now, besides for obviously the content and the subjects, but in terms of how dentistry works and studying it and specialties and all of that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:44

If we go on your you on your TikTok, does your algorithm just give you dental stuff?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:48

Well, 100%. On Instagram, only medicine and dentistry, and it's kind of annoying, I won't lie. That's because sometimes you don't want to be. It's great, but it's just it's just dynasty.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:56

Uh we want more people to get into the profession because they want to do it, not because they thumbsupped.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:02

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:02

It can only be good for you and the you won't make it. You I I genuinely believe it. You'll make it. Trust me. I made it. No, you will make it. We're sitting here, but that's what I'm saying. You will make it. You can get to the whole, you can get through a whole life, and I'm sure that many people that have worked 40 years plus. But it's almost like you're pre-passionate about it already before. This is what we want. That's the difference. This is what I want. Being happy and being able to just have a nine to five, it's complete different.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:27

Yeah. So that's forgot the microphone or stuff. No. Um that's the the difference, though, is like I think that when you when you study dentistry and medicine, you have to be very passionate about it. Yeah, like you just have to. And yes, there are exceptions who still made it through, but you're gonna finish, you're gonna hate your life in university because you're not gonna enjoy what you're studying. Then you're gonna have a hate for this profession. You're gonna qualify, you're gonna be forced to go to ComSiv, you're gonna hate it because you still don't like dentistry or medicine. And then you're gonna work and you're gonna be like, I still hate it. And you're gonna look for an outlet, or you're gonna look to specialize in something stupid. And you think that's a that's an exception.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:03

I think that that's the norm, exactly. I think you're talking about a utopian society, but shame, we're gonna sound like we're like no, no, I think I'm fascinated to hear about how you I want to like it's but maybe I'm naive. Maybe I'm also I I'm I'm in an undergraduate. Yeah, yeah. You gotta start somewhere. If you're if your algorithm is giving you that, it means you want that.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:26

Yeah, no, I mean I mean that the people that I see, and remember I'm also speaking from the my peers, that everyone I see, they all seem so inspired to be doctors. Okay. But maybe that's just what they they show. Yeah. Obviously, they're not gonna say, no, I'm just here because my parents forced me to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:41

And nobody says that when you're there at the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:42

I mean, yeah, but uh maybe in 10 years when you guys have me back here. But I can ask you a question.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:47

Like, I mean, you've got a diverse group of friends, right? They're studying other things. What percentage of them do you think enjoy what they do?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:57

Um or even the society as a large, I mean. I think it's I think it's very few, and it's a big point, and it's why I think, and I wanted to speak about this, I think it's unfair, like, but there is no way around it. I think it's unfair to make a kid at 16 because you're in grade 11. That's what you said before. You you're about to turn 17, 16, you start applying to universities. At 16, what do you know about the world at 16? Yeah. I mean, and I went to like a public school here and I went to private school, so I had two schools in like very different parts of Sherbourg. I got to experience quite a bit, and I was still completely isolated, don't understand anything. And yet now you've got to apply. And all you're seeing is glorified stuff from the internet. That's how you're gonna get most of your information, or people telling you study this, study that, whatever, chat GPT and asking what's the degrees that you're not gonna replace me in, stuff like that. And you said, so how do we change this, right? Yeah, and you said you don't know. I don't know. I think taking a gap year is not a bad idea. Yeah. To kind of find yourself, see how the world works. If you can, yeah. If you can, if you can afford it and stuff like that. Also, the problem with the gap year is that a gap year becomes two, then three, and then you're not studying. And I know a lot of kids are like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:03

That's also okay. If you can.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:05

Yeah, if you can, but in this economy, where you're gonna get a job without any qualification, it's quite tough. It's not as easy as it once was with you guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:13

In this economy, if you can afford to take a gap year, then you know. Yeah, okay, you might be okay. But but I'll give you this podcast is one of the solutions. Like if people can watch this and see real stories about because not everybody's gonna have this experience that you had where you you really loved it and you get you know you got into it because you wanted to. That was one of the reasons why I wanted to have this podcast is to speak to people and just hear what it's like, really. Because nobody tells you what it's like. Really. I mean, I think off-camera you were telling us a story about how you wanted to shadow somebody and they said, Don't come to me, my stuff is boring, go to that person. Yeah, yeah. Good CNR surgeon, yeah. You know what I mean? So people don't always say that. It's not easy to say that my my job is boring, go to somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:58

But I I knew I knew what I liked, and I knew what I liked doing. And I don't like sitting on a desk and I don't like studying like that, and you know, just sitting by the computer and not speaking to people. That's also where like most of my skills are in soft skills, working with my hands, and okay, yeah, I can pull like crazy shifts and study hard, but uh for me here, I would much rather just speak to people every day, go for business meetings, play golf, and just like chill. No, it sounds like you so yeah, like I knew what I wanted to do, and then I looked at it and I'm like, okay, dentistry is the perfect combination. I'm gonna I'm 100% sure about this. So pediatrics and then you want to have like a be in private practice somewhere and yeah, so it's yeah, pediatrics, but then they I mean every specialty has its and that's the benefit of being a general dentist, that you can do all of them, I guess. I mean, I look at the stuff like the veneers, and I don't know if you've seen the doctor in Cape Town, Dr. Lex Leo, Dr. Smile. Yeah. I mean the stuff he does with the grills and the celebrities, I think that's so cool if you could do that. Yeah. So I'm not really sure where it's gonna go.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:58

We want to get him on the show, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:59

Yeah, he would be he would be great. I I'm not sure where all of this is gonna go. I'm gonna see how this undergrad goes, finish that, and then and see what I'm gonna specialise in, if I want to specialise. But I do know, and I can tell you this when I make it through Dennishi, I will own a practice afterwards. Because own a practice. That's the gym, and that's what I'm gonna do. And the Porsche? The Porsche has to come.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:19

What what type of Porsche? 9-11. What should I get? Because I I said I'm not a car person, but what he's getting. This is like a flex.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:27

He's like just making it now he's just being mean. He's like, What am I what should I buy? What colour? You respect my Porsche.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:33

No, man. I'm saying when I when I've got um so what's a good Porsche to get? Because I'll tell you what.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:40

Like, pick one for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:41

I was telling, I was telling my wife the other day, like, she knows I'm not a car person, but recently, I don't know whether it's because of MKBHD, you know MKBHD, yeah. He drives a Porsche. Yeah. And like I I find myself wanting to one day drive a Porsche. Like, for some reason.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:54

It's the ultimate car for a dentist. It's a stereotype car.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:58

But it's also like a it's a midlife crisis car.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:00

Yeah, it's like a it's a dentist.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:03

Apparently, the average age of a Porsche owner is like 50 something. 50 something. Well, you can only afford a Porsche when you're getting to like 50s. So answer the question. What must I get? Let me just drive a.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:12

I for me, no. No, wait, you're not getting a big Kai and Kaian is that four by four. Yeah, you're not getting you know, you're getting this and you're getting a 9-11.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:20

9-11. That's you have to.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:21

You have to. That's like midline. No, but isn't it a specific nine? Turbo S.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:25

Turbo S. I'm just taking notes here. And you can buy button. Isn't a buy one come to give you a big one? Can you buy brand new? Brand new or second-hand.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:33

Also, that's another thing. I think brand new cars are a scam. Yeah. No, it's it's crazy. The uh depreciation of cars, and like I spent a lot of time on Facebook looking at like cars and second-hand cars and looking to buy and whatever. Um the depreciation of cars is insane. It's the worst accident.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:50

Fiat 500. I wanted I I also told us to tell my wife, Fiat 500, this is a small thing, it's so cute.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:55

If if you got in the accident, in the accident, I was in a BM, right? Okay. If you were in the Fiat 500, I think you would have been like dead. Yeah. That's another thing. And now I think about it, and I never used to. I like in high school, I was just like, yeah, whatever's fiat. Yeah, I was a little bit safe still. But I was like, whatever's fastest, whatever can go fastest. But now I'm like safety, I'm very big on safety. Because you never know what can happen. And it's other people.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:18

Also think you have a BYD. Um I've seen those now. Seagull. Yeah. Not Seagull. It's cool, it's like a little small electric thing. Wouldn't mind one of those.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:27

Electric cars are pretty cool though, but not enough infrastructure in the country.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:30

Yeah, but it's fine. You can charge it once uh just come home and put it, plug it in.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:34

And then you want to need to drive subitorial, and then you're like, oh crap, now I gotta go home. Anyway, enough about cars. We don't like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:42

I I thought Yashua was gonna ask you a question, actually, was leading up to this, but I'll ask her on his bile. I wasn't gonna. I was just talking about cars. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:49

Do you want to be rich? Do I want to be rich? Um, rich in money or rich in family? No, rich.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:57

Wealthy. What what you what's your definition of rich? Is how don't give us utopian.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:03

No, no, genuinely, is uh having enough money to be comfortable to where you're not struggling pace to basic where you purchase what you want to your standard of living, but being rich is having the time to spend it.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:16

That's what being rich is. And I'm telling you now, if I went and did mechatronics, I would have been way more wealthier than if I was uh a dentist.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:24

Okay. So you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:25

I know that there's I think there's way more money in engineering, and you end up at a big company, you're working as like a top CEO. I think that's what it's my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:32

Unless you're a dentist in America.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:34

Those guys make it sure they make quite a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:37

It's a very small percentage of them. And the reason why we see a lot of that is because it's the ones on social media. But you're the ones on social media. You've got to be rich because other how are you gonna get those two first-class tickets? Yeah. Your mom and the poorest.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:49

My poor and the poorest. I don't know which one's coming first. 9-11. And you know what my mom always says uh the Indian tradition is the first paycheck was to my mom. Is that a tradition?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:58

Your mom has groomed has groomed you from that time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:00

Because nobody told me. My mom's an investment manager. I'm just the best investment she's ever made.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:05

That's a good one. Yeah, that's a good comeback. Anything else that you want to talk about that we didn't touch on?

SPEAKER_01 1:44:11

Um just high school, I think, yeah, more like speak as much about JP as I can, but I think how important high school is. Going to a good high school, and I know you have kids, and you don't think about it. Kid. Yeah. Oh, just one? Yeah. Okay. Um how old is your six. Six, a boy or a girl. Okay. Yeah. And so like my mom and I would say we think that, well, I think as well, um, that every boy should go to a boys call in South Africa. Okay. Because even if you're the nerdiest kid or you're the like biggest rugby player guy, there's a group for you and you'll fit in. And the school understands that and they cater for it. I mean, at JP at every other school, I speak badly about the other boys' schools, but they're all terrific and they all produce amazing men. And it's there's a stigma over the last like many years that they don't. And you know you went to DHS that boys schools have a bad reputation, but they I don't think they do anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:03

I think for good I see I totally disagree with you and your mom on this. That you think boys. It's a very bold statement. I totally disagree backing this list. It is, it's it's cool, it's cool that we can have this conversation because I totally disagree. Like, I went to an all-boys school, private, then uh Model C, and um it's one of the reasons, probably one of the influencing factors for us choosing a co-ed school for our kid lit. It's because I maybe I'm I'm wrong, but I just feel like it does sort of create that toxicity in the world. Exactly. There's a social aspect of it as well. Yeah. Of being in a boy school. Yeah, but but clearly you had a different experience. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:41

It's I not everyone enjoys it. Yeah. That's too. Yeah. But I went to JP and I was like, there's so many opportunities here in sports, academics, leadership, in everything. I and through JP, I met so many people and I got so many connections. And it's good for networking. Yeah, that as well. But I'm just like, it's so many opportunities to do things in every aspect of life, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:45:59

But also, remember, you were in it's it's it's a different world, as we said. Even dental school is a different world. I think they've changed. Remember, we were there in 2000, you were there 2003. I was there 2005, is when I finished. Yeah, yeah. It was a different world those days, man. I think people have changed and moved on in the world. So it's also things like like your idealisms are more, I mean, you're a motivated person. So that is what you wanted from high school.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:23

Yeah, people tell me that as well. When I like I speak to a lot of guys who are older, like guys that play golf with or sports with and stuff, and I tell them, like, send your boys to a boy school. Okay, I don't care. Yeah, whatever whatever you're gonna tell me, I don't care. Send him to a boy school, public school, it doesn't matter, just send him to a boy school. And they're like, no, but it's not the same. You're not understanding, like this kid needs help and stuff like that. The psychosocial aspect of it is also attractive. Maybe I don't get that.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:45

Hold on, no, no, but now that you mention it, it's funny because I've always thought if I had a boy, I'd want the boy to go to Clifton, my my my school that I went to. Yeah. In which is an all-boys school, Clifton. So maybe you're onto something.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:58

I think I think an all-boys school prepares you, it and a good all-boys school, like Chepi, or obviously. Yeah, but um, should we wait? Hilton Michael. Michael, Hilton Kersney.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:12

Yeah, Kes, St.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:14

John's. St. John's. St. John's, there's top. We've got great schools in the country. We do, and they they have such great tradition, and they have like they're just amazing schools with amazing history, and they produced amazing men in the society. Um, sending them to that and then letting them make like become the man that they're meant to be. Because you find yourself in high school and you see what you're supposed to fit into, and you have to be kind of become a man and be your own man. But and that's the other thing is when you go to a school where there's 200 kids in a grade, if you're not standing out, you're just gonna be like the rest of them. Yes, maybe 200 kids matriculate from JP every year, and probably I would say like 100, 150 of them, maybe even just completely go under the radar. They're just another boy. But those like, and I know guys I matriculated with who are superstars, who smashed in academics, played first team rugby, and like now they're playing international rugby, playing for countries, they're playing for the sharks, they're doing amazing things. Yet their marks were always like great, they were great people, they were like head prefects, all of that stuff. And I'm like, those guys just came to Jeppy as a no-name. And that's the other thing is you all come there, rich, poor, from any part of the country, and you're given the same opportunity. And it's fair. You're given a blazer and a tie, and you're like, now you do everything. There's no there's no stigma, there's no nothing behind it. They're just like, we don't care where your dad is, none of that stuff. You make it for yourself. So if you're getting good marks, if you're really good at sports, you're gonna get praised.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:37

And I love this. This is a fresh perspective, yeah. I like this. But we must use this against them, this these what Gen Zs. Yeah. Title the episode like Jeppy Boy, best in the country. Yeah. And pretty space on there. Clickbait. Clickbait, so we'll check, get all your millennials coming to. I mean, you're 19, right? So as you said, when are you coming on in 10 years' time? When's the next episode? Who knows? After you come back.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:59

Give me, give me, yeah, in my comm sub, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:01

Why don't you give me a let's do that again in comm sub? We'll speak and we'll ask you if anything's changed, any perspectives that change. Have you ever would you ever think of like moving overseas?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:11

Yeah. Yeah. Think about it all the time. Okay. Um, I think so. I actually was thinking about like taking a year now, maybe, and going. Because you when will you get that opportunity? I guess you can go overseas once you get your dental degree, but then you gotta study full of boards and you don't know what it's like overseas and to work. As it's here, it's safe. You know, you you know you have a you can work in a practice, you can own your own practice, make the money, it's safe and everything. But I think going overseas, not many people get that opportunity, and I want to take that opportunity, at least once in my life. To do dentistry, of course. What else would I do? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:44

So if I could what? Go start afresh.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:46

Uh if I could get into a dental school overseas right now, I would take it. Really? And I would do it. Where? Wherever. Uh New Zealand. I know you Mauritius. Mauritius. I don't know about Mauritius. Sorry. Well, tell us where you've thought of. Um I've thought about like Australia, New Zealand. Yeah. Obviously, America seems great, but with the war and everything, I was recently overseas in the Middle East and I was like, whoa, Malays is actually a nice place to where about. I was in Qatar, Doa.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:15

Yeah. Good things about that place.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:17

Yeah, it's beautiful and clean. And I'm like, the rest of the world is just so big. There's so much opportunity here. Imagine if you like, it's tough when you're a medical professional because you need to be licensed everywhere. But imagine if you could bounce around every two years and just go work at different dental practices all over the world. I mean, you work your way across. You start in America, you go to Europe, you go further right, you're in Japan, then you go to India for a year, you work all your way across, and you come back with all this knowledge of how things are done differently. Not just like how physical dentistry is done, but how patient care is different, how the practice is run, how finances are managed, and all of that is different. You come back to South Africa, you open your practice, that's like that's the ideal world for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:54

Maybe you can get into some sort of leadership position that just does. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. Because you know, like it's so unfair. The accountants can go to it, the lawyers can go to it. So why can't we do it? Yeah. So that's our task. FDI, what's FDI? Create a global standard, and you be the president and just ask all the universities to apply to it, and then if they do and they get accepted under obviously under scrutiny curriculum, then we're allowed to like exchange students and work in different kinds of things. I mean, FDI is the World Dental Federation, it represents more than a million dental. Yeah, but no, that's just like a an association. Yeah, it's not a form formal structure that's government associated. But you want to be practicing.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:32

I want to, yeah. Thanks, yeah. Cool, man. I think eventually I'll get tired. My back's gonna give out. That spine, that vertebrae, that skew is gonna pop in and be like, yeah, it's so good to speak to the youth, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:43

Like yeah, it was a lot more refreshing than like some of our like recent episodes where we had like it's like people well into their job. It's a different perspective.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:52

It's not those guys are like tapering off, and I'm here, and I know I'm very naive, and I have these bright ideas, and who knows, in five, ten years, one of those. Yeah, but you must cultivate it. We'll see, we'll see what happens. But I'm I'm very excited to be in dynasty.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:06

Look, if you're in second year and you're still excited, then I think you're sorted. That's a long degree though. No, but still, you would have known by now. It's a quick degree, yeah. And you know though that that you mentioned earlier, like one year doesn't make a difference if you fail. It's so true. There's people I know people that have failed two, three, four years. Yeah, but if you look at them now, you they're at the top of their game. Yeah, and you would never know. So it really, all those things make no difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:30

There's nothing wrong with failing. And in fact, failing re-like refocuses your mindset. Yeah, it's not in fact, like I think if if I had to fail, if I tried my very best and I failed the subject, and I can honestly say I sat down and I studied, I wouldn't mind failing. Because I know, okay, that's obviously maybe from God, it's just saying focus on this more. You maybe you need this to do this one more time to be a better dentist, to treat patients better. I think it's a mentality that's hard to see when you're failing something and you see your postal come up and it comes up red and you're crying and it's blurry now. Yeah, they'll make you stand and leave. That's it's hard to understand that then. But in like two years' time, you'll be like, oh yeah, okay.

unknown 1:53:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:10

And how did you feel about the subs?

SPEAKER_03 1:53:12

The subs, no, I was uh why did you sub though? I was just not working, I was not studying, I wasn't interested in this stuff. Yeah, exactly. I mean, because when I got into law, I was I I cum lauded. So I was a totally different person because I was into the thing. Overachiever.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:26

But that's which is what you were saying about like you have to get invested and I I think I think you're you're flunk in medicine or dentistry if you know if you're not enjoying it. But I don't know how you made it. Enough pressure from your dad, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:38

The motivation for me was like I don't want to fail because uh my dad's paying for it and I don't want to let them down. So there's different motivators, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:53:47

That's also another thing I want to speak about how expensive dentistry and medicine is. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:51

It's it's I think dentistry is one of the most expensive degrees you can do at a university.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:55

It it is, and I know like the dentist, medical students, and and vets as well. I think the university actually loses money on every subside. They subsidize it. Yeah, they subsidize it. Yeah, especially uh vet science. I know they subsidize it because the amounts of stuff we need, I mean, like I if you think about it, in one clinical session, when you're just there, the amount of gloves you go through and like material consumables, and yeah, lots of consumables, and they have to pay for that somehow. Equipment as well. I mean, dentistry equipment is insanely expensive, yeah. And it's it's so it's also very hard to get a bursary for dentistry medicine. Okay. If you I know you guys obviously not looking, but like I've been looking literally since my trick for and apply, and I haven't heard anything, like I haven't even gotten an interview. And I'm like uh a bursary would help so much, it would help me, it helped my mom a lot, right? Um, take off a lot of financial pressure. And a lot of the bursaries are they will say open to all degrees except medicine, dentistry, vett science. Interesting. And it's because people assume that when you study medicine or dentistry that you're coming from a wealthy background, which is so unfair. That's interesting. And also, I think that maybe the bursary companies they don't want to pay for you because you're gonna end up working for yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:03

Yeah, no return on investment.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:05

No return on investment, and they're not putting something back into the industry, and also um that it's long. I mean, paying for someone for six years is is much longer. You could get two kids out of that if they studied like another degree, a regular B com or BSC.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:19

Well, that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:20

So it's uh I actually had a uh bursary to study engineering, yeah, both at Pretoria and in Cape Town, and I declined a bursary, full bursary to study dentistry. Which company? Uh it was for through MTN.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:32

MTN, okay. Sure. Fascinating stuff, man. But no, I had I enjoyed this. Yeah, it was a great conversation. Thanks for the insight, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:40

And um Do you guys have any more? Any more questions for me?

SPEAKER_03 1:55:43

I've dude, I've got so many that I can think of, but it yeah, I feel like it's the right place to stop it now because we need to do part two. So when are we doing it? In four years' time, three years? Hopefully. You do you know what you like have you even thought about comsurf?

SPEAKER_01 1:55:56

Like, where do you want to do it? So um yeah, I remember you guys had Dr. Dungoo and he said something interesting in his thing about ComSurv. That when go rural. Uh sorry? Go rural. Go rural, yeah. Instead of go city. And I thought that's like completely concentrated. You know you can you can serve a comserv here at the University of Victoria. Oh now you can. Yeah, you can. And you can serve it at you on the downstairs floor and stuff like that. And I'm sure most of the universities offer that. Oh, okay. We'll take ahead and move it. Um I was like, yeah, that's ideal. Serve it at a university, stay in a nice apartment or stay at home even for a year and then figure myself out from there. But going rural and you in charge of your own times, all of that stuff, I'm like, I never thought about that. Because he was saying that he got to finish earlier than if he was in a city and he got more time to study for his uh exams and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:45

Okay, yeah, that's a good point. Okay, cool. We'll see. Let's let's speak in a couple.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:49

But all the the salary, I know they they sent one, they sent like a pay slip from in our first year group, and this was like three months into the first year. Like, this is the comms of salary right now. What is it? You want me to see?

SPEAKER_03 1:57:02

I mean, it's a public, it's not a uh contradiction.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:04

Yeah, it is public. It was like 50,000 after per month after deductions.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:10

After tax, yeah, and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:12

Not bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:13

But first job. It's your first job, yeah. And you're getting about like 50k a month after every all your deductions.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:18

That's your mom's first business class. Yeah, no, that's it's two months worth. If she's flying far, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:27

No, that's first class, not business. First class tickets. Yeah. Yeah, first class. Okay, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:32

So yeah, I mean, it gives us we're all looking forward, and it increases per annum, obviously, trying to match inflation. Um, so we all just like think about that number. Sits in the back of your head, it's like 50,000, 50,000, 50,000. Then you like Google Porsche down payments and price, how long can I take the installment for and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_03 1:57:48

How much is a 911?

SPEAKER_01 1:57:50

A lot. Like? Um use new. What's uh there's give me a new, give me new. So if you knew and like you're at least looking at like three million. The price of new car is insane. It's I cannot fathom. Like when I look at even like regular cars, like buying a normal three series PMW or whatever, yeah, and you're like over a million, you're like the C class is over a million. Yeah, once you spec it out, it's you're like, what are you paying for at this point?

SPEAKER_03 1:58:14

And then like in 10 years' time, it's worth nothing. Yeah. Yeah. So I hope you're taking uh over on advice because you say it's like things depreciate. So you're not gonna go spend your money. Oh no, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:23

I'm gonna make I'm gonna make enough to buy the Porsche. But you need to make enough money to where you can make stupid financial decisions. That's that's the dream. That's the dream.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:31

That's the dream.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:32

You can make poor financial decisions.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:33

All right, Vavan shot, man. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, that's fine. Look after your swine. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, better than what you have thus far. I need to make shushu so badly, really.