SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome back, everyone. If you are listening to the show on Spotify or Apple podcasts, and if you've got a thing for really good-looking brown men with silver hair, you might want to switch to the YouTube channel because there's two of us on the show today. Oh, sorry. Dr. Riyadh Musa.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

How's it, guys?

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Welcome. I mean, when was the last time you touched a patient, Doc? Do people still call you Dr. Riyadh Musa?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

They do, and it's not correct. I I, whenever I introduce myself on stage, I say Dr. Riyadh Musa. In quotes.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Right. This is what I do. And then I make fun of myself not being a doctor, but still utilizing the title for marketing purposes. Essentially, that's all I've done with my degree.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

So basically you're a dentist now. You know, I think 10 years ago, Yak and I were at a Colgate event. Ten years ago, I think, 2015. And you were the MC that night, right? And you had a dig at the dentist.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

You said something like that. I remember the joke. I think you walked up and at that particular moment they were serving food. Yes. And then you meant you said, please don't anyone choke on the food because you're the only real doctor in the room. I found that funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

I mean, so when last have you actually seen uh touched a patient?

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Um when last did I do medicine properly?

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

I would say 2003.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Okay, that's what? 12 years ago. No, 20 years. 22 years ago. Jeez. Yeah, you see, that's why that's why I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

22 years ago. If you're on a flight and some of the what happens is like um I still was uh, you know, maintaining all my H uh the CPD points for a number of years, right? And I was still going because I didn't think I'm not gonna go back.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

Okay. Yeah. You must have a backup plan.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

No, no, it wasn't never like it's it's more like my journey to doing comedy was just more like um I was never a planned thing. Or I never thought, okay, I'm gonna try this now, you know, I'm gonna hand in my stethoscope. I don't want this anymore. Yeah, I'm gonna go follow my dream. No, it wasn't like that. It was more like, um, I like doing this thing. Let me just do it a little bit and then I'll probably come back and specialize. Okay. I always wanted to be a doctor. Always, from as far as I can remember. Why? Tell us about growing up. Both my parents are doctors. Um, my father's an orthopedic surgeon. He did his super speciality in hand surgery. Um, my mother is a general practitioner. Um they're still practicing. Um my father, you know, they're all in their 70s at the moment, so they don't really practice. But my father's involved in the hospital business. Um, so he's still he's still very, very active, but not specifically in his own practice. Um he like, I mean, we just grew up around that, you know. And I always remember, you know, there was this big surgery when I was young where some lady's hand got chopped off with a punga. Yeah. Right. And my father was one of the team that actually reattached the hand, you know. Um where did you grow up? Where are you from? Yeah, I'm from Cape Town. Right. And uh grew up in Grossi Park and Eastfield, southern suburbs of Cape Town, and always wanted to do medicine. Quiet, studious guy, who just happened to like Quiet?

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Were you an introvert or not?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

I am an introvert. I'm an introvert now. And not one-class clown in the future. In a sense, no, no. Uh what I would do is I would essentially come alive at uh the orals and the mundelinger. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

So quiet dude, yeah, like most of the time. Yeah. And then I do a mundling and it's like showtime.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

But that that's not an introvert. Showtime. Are you sure you're an introvert? Do you know what it's like?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Well, the introvert is from my understanding, is you gain energy from the quiet.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Predominantly.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

You don't want to go and give mundelings.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

No, so I no, you uh it's not like you don't want to, it's just you get tired in these social settings.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Right? So I'm more of the comedian where I watch. That's that's my style. So I'm not the comedian where I'm like the center of attention generally, picking on everybody. I'm the comedian checking things. That's funny, that's weird, that's stupid. It's observational humor. We could call it. Or it's the nature. You know, it's the nature. And interestingly enough, my disposition is also slightly melancholic. So I think a lot is there are comedians who who do that, who have that sort of nature. And it's more like the comedy is a way to look at the playful side of life. Yeah. Right? And it's almost a therapy for the nature.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

That's that's very interesting that we went down this role. I didn't think that we would go into the psyche of uh comedy, but my therapist always tells me that it's an evasive mechanism, coping mechanism to try and make other people laugh to detract away from you know what you're feeling is.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah, yeah. So comedy is like it's more just like a I would say an endorphin, um, and it's a temporary relief for pain.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Um Do you get a kick out of it making other people laugh? Do you feel good about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Uh I I a laugh is very special for me. I I really I think my happiest time or the process of happiness for me is writing a joke, right? Creating a joke and trying out for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

To see if it lands.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

The first time. The first time is a special time, you know, because you don't know. Yeah. Right? And when you get that laugh, it's like supremely rewarding. Second time, yeah, not as good, right? And a lot of times, the second time you do something, the joke, it doesn't work as well. And why is that? Because a lot of times you deliver it like the first show, as opposed to being in the moment. Yeah, you know, and a lot of comedy is in the moment, and stand-up comedy is sort of creating a lot of times the illusion of being in the moment, right? And and and to a certain extent is not an illusion, even if you come in with the same material, because to actually connect with that audience, you have to make these subtle body language adjustments and timing adjustments for it to work extremely well.

SPEAKER_06 7:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Where do you test drive your jokes? So jokes, it's like a it's like a most times it would be a comedy club. Okay. That's that's how I used to start doing it. At a comedy club, you try things out uh and you build something. Um but these days I'm trying to try things out as I tour because it's it's very difficult for me now to leave home because I travel a lot. And now, like a few years ago, I did the show Life Begins. That was when I was turning 40. And then what I would do is it was in all the thick of things when like kids were very young. So we'd put them to bed, they read stories, fall asleep halfway through the story, and wake up. Well, I've got to do test out material that I'd drive through to OBS to um to the armchair theater, go up and then just say, bruh, I just want to try out some jokes. Usually they give me a chance. So they would be your your sample group. And then I would try things out, you know. Not the white four. No, no, just do 10 minutes. No, okay, you see, comedy is you can't rely on one person. That's very important. So a lot of people afterwards, when they come and they tell me I didn't like that or I didn't like that, I I I I used to take it personally. Uh um, but the the audience is the organism. So that is that's my sample. That is my evidence. The laugh, I hear the laugh. So I know what the organism feels. Yeah. Right? If I'm gonna look at that one bra, uh right, it's not gonna help. The one bra is there. You your your eyes, humans will focus on that which is that thing that is a threat or is wrong. Yeah right? We will do that. Dentists, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

People go, oh, some you're not going, ooh, I have uh 30 other beautiful teeth. You will go, oh, that one, two, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:14

So you're not looking at all that as good, right? So it's just like a psychological focus to look at the whole thing. Um yeah. Did you grow up rich? I mean, two doctor parents. Well my comparatively, I would say. So you privileged in like the affluent area in the No, we were in the sort of the colored area, right? You know, still Are you what do you identify as?

SPEAKER_03 9:36

Are you Indian colored?

SPEAKER_01 9:37

So Cape Muslim, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Is that what you say?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Okay. Cape Muslim. So Is that Cape Malay? Is it so Cape Malay, you see, we were the group also where my father is born in India, right? My father and he came over when he was two, right?

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Um they had this story about how, you know, it's one of those things where you came over with a relative, you know, and they had to take him away from his mom at that point who was feeding him, and then he went with his whole entire different family, came all across the world, you know, to start a new life here. Landed where? Where did he land? Right, in Cape Town, okay, right, and to stay with relatives, right? And um you sort of moved between families and so on and so forth. His other brothers and sisters grew up in India. They grew up there and then they moved to America. Everybody moved to America. So I have people that look like me and my family, but they're properly different, like proper Americans. My name is Asef, that's Anisa, that's Asma. Yeah you know, that's my cousins, and then I've got the uh my dad's brothers and sisters who've got that sort of mixed American accent, but from you know, we've been staying so long in in America in US. US. It sounds more like an insult, right? US, right? Um, and nobody knows that we're from, you know, we didn't grow up here, you know. We got a completely, you know, authentic American accent. You know, like like those guys, right? That's my dad's brothers and sisters. And my dad is like proper Cape Tonian Salam alaykum. Yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah. Like, like, like that's it's uh so it's a mind-boggling experience when you see them together because nature-wise, they're actually very similar, right? But like in other ways, they like vastly, vastly different.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

So he was always practicing from the time you know him growing up. It wasn't like he came here and had to do other stuff and was straight into practice.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Straight into practice. Like, I mean, like I just know just them working extremely hard, my mother as well. But we grew up in the community because at that time it's like it's not really um so we had a like uh I I never woke I always had my needs taken care of, yeah. And so on.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Did you grow up around like were there white kids, stack kids?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

No. Just so we just in a colored community. So your mom, I'm assuming she's colored. No, my mother is half Indian, half Malay.

SPEAKER_06 12:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

So so that's sort of at that. So a lot of times in Cape Town. Farm South Africa. So in Cape Town, what happens, uh what used to happen is the Indian businessman used to come over from India and then have a Malay wife. So that is my both my grandparents on that side have that dynamic with the Indian father and a Malay mother. So both my grandparents are, I think, half Malay, half Indian. So we had Indian family and Malay family. So, so so in in in Cape Town, there's the term Cape Muslim.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Right. So it's more like because it's more, and generally in Cape Town it's less insular. So you'd find there's much more overlap culturally and with with there's not this like distinction in Durban and Johannesburg between the Indian and the Malay as much. Okay, you know? It's not that it's not there, it's just it's not as like solid. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

When was the first time you met up with a with a Durban Indian?

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Yeah, because you could have easily been there. I think your father missed the the stopover in Durban on the side.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

So Durban, I actually only got involved in when I did comedy when I started coming over. Then I started to experience different parts of the world. First I went to Johannesburg, experienced the Joburg Indians, and I like a lot of my famous jokes is based on that 15 minutes boss. Exactly. But that's what I'm thinking. You must come home. That was a Joe Burg thing. I still use the 15 minutes bus thing to this day. Like uh you must come home, you know, but I'd never give you address or phone number or contact details, you need anything, just how you know, but they would like how am I supposed to be.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

You know what? Yak is definitely not a a a proper Indian because you know what, he went to fetch you from East Cape now. Yeah. And I said, How long are you gonna take, Yak? He said, 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

But I was literally 10 minutes. But you know, I'm so glad that I I mean the the food in your household must have been lit. And I was asking Siham, your PA, now what should we get you to eat? And I was so nervous, I was like, should we give you some some or like you know, chili bites or whatever? And I'm glad you told us your your background because um I don't think we would have done justice to defeating it.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

No, it's like a pack your own lunch. But also because we grew up in a doctor home, our diet was more like at that time eggs were evil, you know, at that time cholesterol, eggs were evil. Um my mother always adjusted like sugar intake and all of that. And you know, like we would eat differently, also to my cousins because we came from a doctor, in a sense. You know, interesting because we wouldn't have like the delectable delights that they would have. So when you go to their houses, we go, uh I think that might be unique, eh?

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Because apparently doctors, kids, like if you if you've got a sore leg or something, you your dad will say, No don't worry, walk it off. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Is that also the situation in your uh well my dad is very quiet also so um uh he only says something when it needs to be said. And then it's sort of this is what my perspective is, and generally you take his advice, not because he's forcing you, very soft-hearted guy, but um uh you know he sort of leads very much by example. Okay. Um very hardworking guy, you just seem and quiet, stoic type. Stoic, very stoic. So you were. But I think coming coming from his background is understandable. There was this there's this scene, he only saw his uh family after 20 years, I think when he was doing medicine. Yeah, I think when he was doing medicine, he was I don't know, finally a medicine, but right? And then this they had to go there on ship that time. So he got to the I think the port and usually right they were still on the ship deck. Usually obviously the people collecting you aren't allowed on the ship, but uh his father was like I think a postmaster, and he had some sort of connection with the people on the ship, and he was able to get on the ship, and my father's still waiting to get off the ship, and some man taps him on his shoulder and he says, Are you Nisar Maruf? And he says, Yes, and he says, I'm I'm your father, Jane.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Wow, you should make a movie about that, like Titanic but the Indian origin.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

It's like it's uh I actually want to have that thematically for my next show because I'm touring with a show now called What's the Point, and it's also based on you know the state of the world at the moment thematically, you know, it's got like serious underlying themes, um, What's the Point and more sort of introspective, and the next show is gonna be called The Shiny Lie, right? It's like based on false idol concept, and I want to expand on all of these things. But obviously there's a lot of silliness and a lot of jokes throughout the show, but underlying it is this sort of theme. And I thought maybe as a sort of an emotional hook at some point, like in a movie, you tell this this story because it's quite uh quite an interesting one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

I mean, that's one thing I have noticed about your shows, and then I mean, even though it's very comedic related, there's an undertone of a message of some form of call it morality in most of them.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

I think it's this is it's like um uh this is more stock, the show, particularly. What's the point? It's more stark, like because but but uh um uh I guess as you get older, you know, different things become interesting to you, you become naturally more introspective, you know. So I just I guess I'm just evolving, you know, my humor is evolving as I get older.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Can I just ask one question before we move on? How did your dad um com how did he communicate the whole time with your granddad in India? Was it like letters?

SPEAKER_01 18:29

How did they actually don't know? I think that at that I'm sure there must have been letters at that time, but then over the years they would like I think call a lot, phone calls. My mother actually helps a lot with the with their connection. Like she actually maintains their connection more than he does.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

Well, put in a word for us. Can we get him on the show? Maybe we can ask him all this. My dad's interesting, man. I'll ask him all the hands.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, I don't think he'd be like I'll you know, he always shies away from those things.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Well that's the way to hook him and tell him that the host had a four-finger amputation after Primar Evereston. Yeah. Yeah. You had the hand guy. So so school now. I mean, you were a nerd, you were doing well, you knew you wanted to be a doctor, so you put your head down, got seven A's or whatever. You say you were a nerd. I didn't pick that up.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

A nerdish, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Like a nerdish, like studious.

SPEAKER_06 19:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

I'd play sport. So that was an un like a less nerdish. Like what, right? Um no, no. I played tennis and then basketball.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Like this is unusual. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

But uh for Indian bruh to play basketball.

SPEAKER_06 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Um, but I played basketball. I could jump very high, and my my son makes fun of me now because I can't I don't have my explosive ability anymore. Right? I'm trying to I've heard that like skip skipping actually helps like, you know, improve that again. So I think I'm gonna try that. I'm watching uh also a lot of what's Peter Atia talks about longevity.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Longevity, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah, so I'm like trying to Are you on one meal a day and everything? I'm fasting now again, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah. But I don't know about one meal a day. 16 eight. Yeah, most times 16.

SPEAKER_06 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

And then but then I want to sort of I I don't want to do have it standard because if you just take the first principle of the ancestors, sometimes fasting and feasting, and sometimes fe so you don't want your metabolism to be used to uh exact thing. So maybe have various, maybe do OMAD. They say switch it up, switch it up, too. Then do 16.8, do keto, you know, but generally low, lower sugar, like cut down on the sugar. My biggest challenge is late at night. Yeah, right. Like when your inhibitions are down, you go, well, all day I'm disciplined, bruh.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah, right? I'm khabib all day, disciplined, like stoic. I know what I'm doing at night, bro. It's like all of a sudden, you know, that that that um the chuckles is calling to me. Calling to me, that red packet. Yeah, you know, I'm gonna get it. No, they've got like 20 different varieties already. And then I've exercised, or I've exercised, so I've got a like a thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

And usually when you exercise a lot, you go in a and also you're but uh like pickish.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

It's a real. Do you use an app? I use an app to track my fasting, yeah? Nah. It's called zero. I pay like 1,000 rand a year for it's literally a glorified timer. This is a paid uh partnership. What's that?

SPEAKER_01 21:31

It's literally now what would you do? I'm looking for taking it.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

On my watch to check. I've got goosebumps because I'm I'm enjoying this conversation with a fellow TRF. Uh time restricted f feeder. Feeding. But you see, I've been 16 hours, 37 minutes, and all I do is click end fast.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

No, but what time do you stop then you I it depends.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

I I switch it up also, but I usually have my breakfast about midday, two PM.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

And now. And I only started the OMAD because I've got this braces in my mouth in Visaline.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

And every time you take them off, you've got to ploss and brush teeth.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yes, and all of that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

So I'm so lazy I said, let me eat it once once a day.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Once a day.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

And now I think that's my lifestyle. Yeah. But my my family, my parents, my uncle especially called me. He said, I saw you, dude. You're looking unhealthy, man. Like you've lost weight, you're not you. Start eating. That's how it is. I you know, Indians, we have a term called healthy. When somebody is looking plump, they say looking healthy.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

So I'm clearly unhealthy.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Okay, but anyway. Weird, eh? Yeah, not about me. That's weird, bruh.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Yeah, I know. I understand.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah. But it's cool. Nice to have a fellow TRFer who was saying. So you I think you did well. Did you get seven A's and you got into the Well, I did pretty well.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

I wouldn't never say. Well, like that time it was different. I I got into medicine. Everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

Where did you apply?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Only UCT.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

You took a chance.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

I did UCT as UCT. But back in the day, it was like, and also my parents are UCT alumni.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Okay. Does it help?

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah, it helps. And then when did you when did you start as a med student? And and then I started, was it 95? Wow. Yeah, a long time ago, bro. Things were different back then. Yeah. And I had a really good experience doing medicine. But the problem was, uh so all my life I wanted to do medicine. Right? Um, and then I started doing magic.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

I'm looking at Yak and smiling, because he you you guys are on the similar part, eh? But go on magic where?

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Magic at the College of Magic. So then Cape Town, there's a place called the College of Magic, Lansdown Road, Clermont.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

And um it's sort of No, but how did you get into this?

SPEAKER_03 23:32

There was no TikTok and Instagram and all those things.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

A weird thing, because I was got into so first of all, I would do entertaining things. I do voices, I like doing impersonations, that's my like a typical introvert, I say sarcastically. Yeah. No, but uh uh my aptitude. And then um my friend Abu Bakr Bray, Standard Seven, back when it was called Standards, Grade Nine Grade Nine, right? He came to me with this pamphlet for the College of Magic. And I remember it clearly that the typical white dove, top hat, magic wand, white glove, right? Let's do this magic, right? And I was like, okay, not too interested, but maybe this is something I'd like to do. Something drew me to it, but like not quite exactly. And I didn't know what was the not quite yet. And then I ended up going to the College of Magic, and Abu Bakr didn't go. This is Standard Seven. This is Standard Seven. Yeah. It's just like on a weekend you'd go there.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Your parents were cool, they were like, okay, yeah, they were supportive.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Essentially, that was the problem. I went to the College of Magic, he didn't because his parents said magic was hard out. Right? Yeah. Black magic. No. Is it not?

SPEAKER_06 24:59

It's just tricks. It's tricks.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

It's like it's an entertaining thing. And then that's also if you talk about being exposed to different races. It's my first experience with the white dudes.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

I was gonna ask you that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Right at the College of Magic, you know, Riyadh. People used to call me Riad. Right? David Gore.

SPEAKER_06 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Riad. And um, interestingly enough, like there's a lot of other comedians that went to the College of Magic. My my friend Stuart Taylor, um, very well-known comedian in Cape Town, the ventriloquist Conrad Koch, who does Chester Missing. Yeah, he was a year ahead of us. So we were all teenagers together. Right? And um, we were at the College of Magic for many years uh until Matric sort of saw on just an extra extracurricular activity. And then my magic, while I was studying, still always wanted to do a you know, be a doctor. My magic sort of evolved into comedy magic. So I like the comedy. Uh while there's a guy called, there's a few guys, I think David Williamson and Tom Ogden, these guys, they do magic, but they've all got funny quips and funny one-liners and stuff like that. And I didn't know of a thing called stand-up comedy, but I gravitated towards the funny stuff. And of course my grandfather is a joke teller, a natural joke teller from my mother's side of the family, just natural, you know, one of the uncles that would just stand there and, you know, captivate the room. Natural, naturally good at delivering jokes. Right? And then I liked the comedy, and then only after I used to do magic, I did children's parties while I was at med school, uh, just for a bit of money, you know, extra money. Um and then I saw stand-up comedy for Theometsa. First time I saw stand-up comedy, UCT, one of these, you know, I just saw this guy, like it's gonna be stand-up comedy. Oh, on campus on campus. All this bruh. There was this chubby guy with a small type playing a banjo. Can't remember his name, but it's the first comedian I saw. I thought this is interesting. And then I started hanging out with a group called the Cape Comedy Collective.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Right? And I was doing comedy magic with these guys, right? And then at one point they had comedy workshops, and I um did my first set. And what inspired the first set was it was like just around like around 9-11, or actually around the Planet Hollywood bombings. It was Planet Hollywood bombing bombing, and so sort of where the whole thing, anti-Muslim thing started coming about, right? And then we go, okay, this is weird, how people are starting to see us. And then that prompted almost a lot of my humor as I got into it, the the stereotypes about Muslims. Right, and like sort of giving a different perspective, you know? Um, and and and that was my first sort of foreign to stand up. And then very quickly I threw away my magic tricks.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Because I go, This is the thing, this is actually the thing I love. This is the thing. And then I continued with medicine. Where'd you get the time to study? No, it was just like it was all what it is, is like you go on the weekend, it was just a hobby that I had. I would do some stand-up comedy with other groups of guys, you know, like people play tennis or people, you know, play cards or whatever. You know, just this was just my little thing that I did. Um, and then it was only final year where I was thinking, like, yo, dude, I like I or around that time, actually fourth year, after that after I saw stand-up, I was thinking, do I really want to do medicine? That's when I had this sort of okay. Um and then after fourth year medicine, I actually took a break for a year.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

What a gap year, like yes. Yeah, it's nice to have doctor parents and just take a break.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

But then no, but a gap year with doctor parents and my father's different. Actually, this is this is where I'm actually remembering it wrong. Like, I actually had doubts while I was performing doing the uh magic, right? And after fourth year medicine, I took off a year, and that is the year that I saw stand up. But where did I see stand stand up? I saw it on upper campus. So why am I on upper campus during gap year? That's the question. Because my father said you're gonna take a year of medicine, you must might as well study something else that's beneficial for you, right? Right in your gap year. So I did economics, I did Hossa, and I did Afrikaans. Languages.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

So you you didn't really take a gap year.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Your parents just redirected. But that was my gap year. No, just for yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Indian, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

So yeah, I'm gonna do this.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Because I'm going back, right? This is what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

I actually got the class medal for it. It's it, you see, you see, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

You can speak a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Yeah. So I I mean I wanted a lot of people. We can speak on the conversational uh Zulu.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Oh Zulu. So so um so then that yeah, I saw the fourth year doing I saw I used to do magic tricks on the steps, you know. So I was the dude doing funny magic stuff. Yeah. Right? Uh the weirdo doing funny magic stuff for people. And then I would do um, I saw the stand-up comedy, I started performing stand-up, even when I went back to medicine. So 50 or 60 years, I would do shows with the Cape Comedy Collective all over. All right. And then um and then I started, uh I think it was during my internship year, because I came here to Johannesburg to Natal Spray Hospital to do with the first Natal Spray hospital in Tokoza. I used to stay in Alberton with a man named Gill, the most yellow man in this interestingly enough. He was named Gill. And um everything like he had was like themed yellow. He didn't even have he didn't have like cirrhosis or anything like that, liver disease. But everything else was yellow. And uh maybe that wasn't his real name, but I just called him Gill because he liked yellow. And then I went through, used to drive through to Tocosa and do stand up. I not do stand up, do uh my medicine at uh um at uh at Natal Spret Hospital, and every almost every night, a lot of times I used to drive through to Fordsburg or Johannesburg and do shows. And then be back forward round. Like, I mean, uh I I would I wouldn't hang around after the shows like other comedians. And that time comedians were doing ectic stuff. Yeah. Right? I mean, like a lot of substances in the stuff. Okay, okay. So I would just go and do stand-up and then I'd drive back.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

You never got involved in all those things, eh? Like bad habits and things.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

No, no, it's it's almost like my stand-up was my bad habit.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

And plus it it was okay. You were the doctor, so the people would excuse it. This guy's a health conscious.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

No, it was like a weird thing. It was a weird thing that what I was doing. It was weird.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

Like Did you make friends in Joe Book?

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

All all my comedian friends now. So so um Choeira's Din and I met a few years later. Um, because that's when the Pure Munati show came about.

SPEAKER_06 32:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

The Pure Munati shows as like our In Living Color, as it were. And I remember that. That was on um SABC One and then Comedy Central for a little bit. No, not Comedy Central. I don't uh I don't know if they bought it for a while. But um, and sort of that's where a lot of the comedians were actually prominent today started. It was very influential in this era, the new South Africa era for comedy. So a lot of the comedians you see, like including Trevor Noah and Eugene Corza, saw us because like we were the young guys, sort of the new, like racially diverse breed, all like we never spent because we were that that time uh where like high school was apartheid and then university was New South Africa. So it was like a real change, like a real change. Amazing, you know? And then all of a sudden you're hanging around with different uh races, and you all united in this weird love of this art form, stand-up comedy.

SPEAKER_06 33:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Right? All people from backgrounds, this is what we liked. And then we started just my mainly performing for white people, and then slowly I started doing my one-man shows, and everybody started doing their own thing, and all these other comedy audiences.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

Did you have to adapt your con your content for for white a white audience?

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Well, it wasn't, it wouldn't even be adapt because that's where you're performing. You're performing for white audiences. It's more like you this is the audience, so you talk about certain things. So that time it was more racial, the humor, more racial. Yeah. To a certain extent, still is, but um uh obviously, you know, dealing with that, you know, it's a natural thing coming out of apartheid.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

And then doing medicine on the side. So you did your internship two years?

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Internship, one year, that time was one year, and then comp service. I came back to Cape Town, did six months at Kalicha site B, and six months at GSH. And um the thing about that year was that's when now these guys, my contemporaries, had the opportunity to get on the Piumonati show. It was the first season. So they're gonna do a TV show now, and I'm gonna go do my comms out.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Save lives. And they do a TV show. Yeah. So I'm like trying to be involved, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Uh I I wrote scripts for that show. Have you watched the Piumonati show?

SPEAKER_02 35:14

No. It's like skiffs as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Short skits. Some of it is like some of it was absolutely amazing, and some of it was horrifically because uh like in terms of it was amazing because it was so bold. Right? A lot of it like it was like, and like you watch it back now, it's like this is incredible. And then others is really bad because production value, and there was no guidance that time. We were our own guides. And that's why you had these moments of magic coming about, right? Um, it was like almost free for most times. People wouldn't allow that type of thing, and credit to the SABC for actually allowing us, you know, because if I look at it back back then as a middle-aged guy, I go, like, yo, you let these young guys do this thing. And we were thought they were restricting us. Yeah, how can they be like this? You know, are they stupid? This is what people like, you know. When I I think, okay, I'm gonna just go to Joe Burg, I'm gonna do this season. You stop medicine? No, I came here and I thought, okay, I'm just gonna come through here. I did locums, right? Right? I'm gonna do locums. That's what my idea. I'm gonna do locums and I'll do this show, you know. Um, but then, you know, big shows started popping up, you know, all these comedy jams at that time, massive shows. And I was doing well with the comedy, so I was always booked. And then I sort of so I followed the path of least resistance. Yeah. That's what happened.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Like an infection.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

So when you say um you were doing well, was it financially? It you meant like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Like I was doing fine financially. I think uh meds uh well I would think I can't remember. I think this is the monies we're getting, and this is before compulsory overtime. Seven grand internship.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

2001 around there.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Yeah, yeah. I said 2003.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

2003.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Right. Um uh uh com service, 10 grand.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Yeah, that's nothing.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Right. And so with stand-up, I was making money, bro. Yeah, yeah, bro. I was making money. So it's like it's uh so it wasn't a financial Like what? How much are we paying you for? No, I can make my like I'm gonna do a show, you get five grand. So I do a number of shows. For the big ones. For the big ones. Uh no, that time I you would do 20 minutes, you know. Like I mean, you'd be on a lineup. I wasn't doing my own things.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

So you never got nervous. Do you get nervous?

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Yeah, yeah, everybody. You should good nerves.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

Tell what is that?

SPEAKER_01 37:46

So that time I would still be more nervous than I am now. Now it's like running a race. So you gotta have a little bit of nerves, adrenaline before. Just before. So you can't have adrenaline running through your body from the like night before. And you pee every five minutes. But how do you pee? Your mouth is dry through doing it over and over. Now it's almost like I maintain like a steady state until just before. And then I just if I if I maintain a steady state, then I don't perform as well. Do you have any like pre preparity rituals and things or I like to l I like to have my guests uh when I do my shows, my public shows, to have certain certain music. Yeah that sort of gets me into the mood.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

What type of music?

SPEAKER_01 38:38

So it's usually uh uh a the pre-show music, whatever's playing, the playlist that I want before the show. And then I just let it play.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

What genre is it?

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Like hip-hop. No, it depends. So this this show be a number of things that's thematically oneness and uh based on that, and it's more spiritual in a sense. But I mean it's like with the and and based on what I'm gonna talk about in the show.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

Okay, okay you know. So uh what type of music do you listen to in general, if at all?

SPEAKER_01 39:09

I like lyrics. So uh I like obviously music with a good beat, but uh a lot of times like a lyric, the lyrics will connect me to the sh the show. So I I like how I like singer songwriters because I like A, that dude is very creative. Do you know Youngsters? CPT. Uh I do know youngsters.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

I enjoy his music, yeah. Okay, so that's when medicine just stopped.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Yeah, and I didn't know that it was gonna stop. Nope. Just like at that point now. Just a natural progression. Welcome's dried up. Right, and all of a sudden, and that time very soon. No, then I just didn't. And then I've I'll go back. I'm gonna specialize, most likely. In what? I didn't want to. Like whatever, like what am I gonna do? Maybe pediatrics. I was thinking at that time.

SPEAKER_04 39:52

Why?

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Because of the magic, so I'd be busy, the kids' parties and all of that thing. I thought maybe I have an aptitude for that, you know. I think you'd be a good pediatrician. Yeah, and I thought so. And then just we even started talking about movies. Like there was a guy called Ronnie Abtiaka and started talking about the story of a doctor comedian and that prompt to talking about scripts and that eventually morphed into the movie material. Like over many years, we just removed the doctor thing because you thought now, like uh the stakes. Oh, you can't do comedy. Uh you can't you have to settle on being a doctor. Shame. We feel we're so sorry for you. So we moved it to the story about working the shop, you know, this material shop, um, which is based on the real story about like two brothers in Fordsburg having to separate. And the one decided to go to the Oriental Plaza because of the group areas I had to do that, and the other one refused. I'm never going to go. That's a Bastion of Apartheid. They had that fight. So we incorporated that true story into the into the movie. And uh so so it is now then I start, then I'm like, now my I've And you directed that, right? Well uh not directed, just uh uh wrote story. It is a story. Um the story was by me. Um we wrote it in conjunction with Craig Fremont, who also helped us with the second film. And then Um at that time I'm doing my own shows now, strictly alal. Now all of a sudden there's Muslims in the audience.

unknown 41:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

So now their humour is different. Now we're talking about more nuanced cultural stuff, right? That you can't talk about in an audience, uh audience of everybody.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

You don't want to get cancelled also. How do you avoid getting canceled?

SPEAKER_01 41:48

At that time, uh, there's no cancel culture anything like that, not specifically. Is that a good thing? Like are you actually? I got more crap than other comedians because of this Muslim thing.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Because I would do, like I remember there was a skit that we did after Osama bin Laden was killed, and I did like a a musical parody about uh mixing the old two things. Uh like, you know, and back then P. Diddy did a song or Puffy, Puff Daddy, I I'm missing you with Faith Evans. So we did uh an al-Qaeda version of that.

unknown 42:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Right, where um the other Al-Qaeda guy is singing about Diddy. Yeah. Not sing about Diddy, sing about Osama. You know? These are definitely things that might get you cancelled. And at that time, so so so it was very popular on the TV show. That was actually late night news with Luis Ogola. Right. And uh but then I got very like I got the death threats from from the community, and I was thinking, why? Because the messaging is like very anti-imperialist. But you see, because like the way in which I did it, I see, is almost like you would be mocking religion, which it wasn't, but the way um it came across that like I can understand how people I think I should have dressed in a different outfit, you know, that's a less associated with religious things and try and make it more um Avhani.

SPEAKER_04 43:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

But this like Talibany. Right, right. Right. Uh it's like I I don't think I dressed it completely.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

But doesn't social media scare you? Because like you can just do something inadvertently and then be trending for the wrong reasons. You don't worry about that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Well, I mean, these days I like uh social media is a weird thing. Like, I mean, you you live in the age of deception. We are living in this age where you're not gonna know what is true, and it's almost like you have to default to principles. Like, I mean, to as opposed to going, what is actually going on? you have to look Beyond what is the video you you have to go, does this align with a principle that I have? Because you don't know what is real. You have to spend a lot of time focusing on what is real and what is not. You know, it's actively this is the tool to to lie. Um and at the same time, you know, you I mean you can gain a lot of knowledge, but um it's a very difficult and different time. Like AI even with making like I mean and and I'm also just trying to can I make an AI Riyadh Musa? You know, I'm trying to investigate that with Chat GPT. I'm trying to uh put in all my material right and then trying to create a master prompt that I can make into a custom GPT. I'm trying to do that, but it's gonna take long. Because the Chat GPT also doesn't take in laughs. It only takes in language.

SPEAKER_04 45:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Right. So that's uh that is a variable that uh that doesn't see. Also, chat GPT doesn't see the body language. Yes, which is a crucial thing, yeah. Very important. So but at a certain point where the AI can take in body language, uh uh laughs, right? Uh and the language. And tone and everything, yeah. And all of that. Yeah, then I'm sure that it'll be able to create a But uh I mean what's that input mechanism?

SPEAKER_02 45:32

You'd record your audience and then just put that in the code.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

So what I'm maybe trying to do now is like I go big laugh, medium laugh, small laugh. So I will go, I put the transcript of my show in and then I will tell the GPT because I ask it, so if I do it like this in the said that, that'll help me very much. That's an awesome idea. Let's do it like that.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

Don't you find semantics? She's a bit condescending sometimes. It's like very mine is a key. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a she. I call him Mr.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Chatterjee.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

And he calls me Dr. Naidu.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Genuinely, I say call me that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

Yeah, I'm giving away too much of how weird I am, but I call him Mr. Chatterjee.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:08

And when I joke with him, he calls me Dr. Naidu and he knows when I'm joking.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

Yeah, so so it's so it's it's like it's learning.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

And that is a weird thing. You created not a tool, you created an entity. You know, and you gotta learn how to interact with this thing. So so I am trying to explore that, but I mean it's a different thing. I can I can see how this thing, if it can it'll understand humor much better once it uh uh can get see the laugh and the body language.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

What are those three professions that are highly protected against AI?

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Uh priest? A priest, a dentist, and uh plummeter.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

Comedians are because uh also you're talking honestly. Like, I mean it's personal stories. So that's what people will relate to. However, I can see staff writers and comedy shows for comedy shows, like cutting down on staff writers, I'm sure. Just with general jokes, you know, to create the core. Punching up a script. Because what they would do now is they would have a whole lot of comedians, like like Trevor, well, when you did the daily show, he'd be the main dude, but then they'll have a whole host of comedians. First, they decide what they're gonna talk about, and then they will go, okay, give me lie uh also jokes based on this thing. Then everybody go away, they work out options, they put it out, they they uh send it in, and then the people, the execs will look at this and go, ah, that's a good one, incorporate and show uh uh uh show this to Trevor, Trevor, do it in his way, you know. Um it's like it's like that. So now a lot of that can be done with the AI.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

Definitely. W when did you know you were famous? Famous, yeah. But when did you realize the movie? Yeah. After Do people come up to you and say, hey, 15 minutes boss?

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Especially back in the day, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

How did that happen those days? There was no social media to go viral.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

How did it be? Yeah, it was the movie. It's my my well, my show strictly allal. Actually for the Baraka, the second one, because I had uh on DVD, and that DVD did very well.

unknown 48:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

And then obviously. Yeah, and people copied it and all that jazz. Right. So that's how it got, and the movie material. I would say those two things are the things that made me sort of well very well known. And it's sort of still. And then I I now these days and I just keep on putting out stand-up content. So it sort of just grows that.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

I almost feel I can I can utilize these old things still. Yeah, rehash them. Right, uh, in order to recycle it, you know, especially the movies for for a younger generation.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

Yeah, there's probably a whole generation that doesn't know your content. The 15 minutes passed and all that order.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Some say it, but they don't know where to do it. Somebody doesn't know, yeah. Like, and and some of it works. So the way, interestingly enough, you put the things on TikTok and the old stuff, and then the old stuff works way better on TikTok because also the old stuff is more aligned with the younger audience, and those jokes were also more aligned with the younger audience. That happens with music too, huh?

SPEAKER_03 49:18

Yeah, like old songs from the 70s become famous again. TikTok on TikTok. Yeah. Yeah. So do you still are you still registered with the HPCSA and Paige?

SPEAKER_01 49:27

I'm not, but I'm trying to get back. You know, I want to. Because I want to do also a wellness podcast, like a sort of um to communicate wellness content in a funny way. You know, quirky that way, you know. Um, and I I I feel like, you know, if it can skew towards like mental health and talking about those things and maybe also using humor as a therapeutic tool, delving into those things as well, and where I can talk about wellness with comedians predominantly. Um I'll subscribe. Uh yeah. I mean, like I think I could get that could have some legs, but it'd be better if I do have some form of registration. Um, and then maybe like I maybe want to do like a course, I think, with uh with family medicine. I think I want to just do that, get back into it. But that's sort of an aspiration over the next few years.

SPEAKER_04 50:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Um, so I'll do that in conjunction with my stand-up, which is my first love, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Yeah, I'm glad you said in conjunction because it you alm almost sounded like you're about to give up the comedy or slow down and no, no.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

It's more like it's just like you something that you also find interesting. You know, it's like you evolve into I realize the stand-up also, I'm not going to uh be going where I specifically want to go. You want to get more nuanced and more niche and talk about things in greater detail and things get more complicated. Whereas when you do stand-up, that's all these broader issues, but it has to be condensed into a joke format that's relatable to a family audience. You know? But you would also like talk about the same concepts, just expand on it, you know, intellectually with people that can connect with you and stuff like that, and relate. And you know, like I mean, even the the the science of stand-up and you know, the art form discussing the nuances of the art form, do it with dudes my age, they all get it, you know, all comedians my age, we can talk about those things. And there's a lot of lessons also in terms of stand-up comedy. A lot of lessons that you can learn. Uh, and then also a lot of that is also if you think about what I do in a corporate setting. Um corporate setting, if I could, that's also a thing that I could do with regard to wellness. You know, wellness is a big thing in corporate setting. So if I could deliver a wellness talk and you know things like that as well. So maybe to my corporate business as well. It's just like also just expanding things, I think. And then it also perform like forms a marketing thing because so much of what you do is like lost.

SPEAKER_04 52:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

So much of what you do, it's completely different. All these like I remember doing a show on East Coast Radio, and I would, I would, as I'm on air, I could see sales. I'm doing a show at the convention center, right? Like that was like amazing. You get on East Coast Radio for Durban as you are talking, you see sales. You'll never see that now. Never, never ever. Yeah. Primetime slot, you'll never see that. It's not as effective. No way. So so even if you get uh Zilla down there. Right, compare it to Yeah, dude. Yeah, she's like I don't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

Don't go fight with Anele. Go on.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Yeah. So but you do that and people will yeah, but it's nowhere near as effective as it used to be.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Yeah. But speaking of like relations, you you've got a young family now. How do you balance you being on tour? Because just recently, I mean, yes, you've done shows like the past week you've been.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

No, no, but so so what happens? We were in PE for two weeks now. You and the family. With the family. And then they were also at the show in PE. And I maybe I would I was contemplating c cancelling the show because my mother-in-law was very ill. So it was like at that point where if it was not gonna go, if she wasn't improving, then I'll go, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go do this big show here. Um, but uh she was improving significantly, so I did the show. Um and it's a big show, like one and a half thousand people, so it's a big thing, difficult to, you know, just cancel that um and find another date and all that jazz. And then most times they will come with me in the holidays. Okay. So ideally going forward, I'd like to structure it around doing mainly shows on the weekends, right? And then during school holidays. So m in the week isn't like as normal, and then go do a show on a weekend, right? Um, and then if people want to come, if I do a show, I do a running Durban for a long time, then it can be coincided with school holidays. And also people are freer, so it kind of works. The only thing is like every time we're on a holiday, I have to work, you know. Um, but it's also cool. I mean, the kids like it, they come there, my they they also have their own jobs. My son takes photographs, and um uh the others are the marketing team, the babies are the marketing team. Make them work, yeah. Make them work. Yeah. Um my daughter will be the most excellent at it. She doesn't want to do anything. She's a teenage girl, she doesn't want to help at all. Uh but she would be the most excellent. She when uh growing when she was younger, she was the most amazing at that type of.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

What do you want them to become when they grow?

SPEAKER_01 55:22

I want them to find uh work that is rewarding and meaningful. That's predominantly where they obviously can look after themselves, but you know, you want to do work that you uh really enjoy, and we live in a time where that's definitely possible. So as long as they have the principle of hard work and you know, and they actually understand that, you know, the f failure actually opens up idea more ideas, having the concept and just experimenting and trying all the time until you find your you've got to find have your vision. Sometimes you don't have your vision immediately. Some people have their vision early on, and you can just focus on that vision, and sometimes you have to, that vision has to be distilled. And um, like I think for me, my vision has definitely been distilled, and it's almost like now with my comedy, I'm even trying to get my comedy into more alignment with my my comedy voice to be more in alignment with who I am, right? Um I like to start, start, started my comedy journey more out there, and like I mean, and and uh it's still me, it was always still me, but uh it's just has to be as authentic. It's almost like I can get off stage, I mean be off stage and go on stage and like just be no change almost. So it's almost like I have to bring the stage persona into my real life, also, and bring the offstage persona into the comedy.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

That's interesting because we were discussing how we can structure this thing on on this past weekend, and I like I was nervous because I've also been in the comedy scene, believe it or not, during COVID. I did a did a little bit of stand-up. And um it was with uh Goliath brothers. Oh, awesome. And our mutual friend Dokrat. That's what we got in contact.

SPEAKER_01 57:21

Hey, he's the man, bro. No, he's he's doing better. Doing better doing better, yeah. Like he's a funny guy. Yeah, he's naturally funny. He is who that dude is. Exactly. Like, I mean, there's that complete alignment.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

Exactly. He's just authentic self-that's him. When he comes dental treatment, also we're team. We gotta set aside like an hour and a half because it's talking first and then like dentistry. But um the one thing I did notice when I first started hanging around comedians is the more funny they are, the less of a persona they had off stage. And it was difficult to actually talk and but then I could understand at the same time, you know, they're they're overwhelmed and they're inundated with people just talking to their quality.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

Right. So there's a barrier. Yeah. Hey, exactly. So you find a barrier. Like it's almost like like I have a neutral. I I generally project the neutral. Joey will be uh A-O sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 58:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Yeah. Of gamble. Of gamble. Yeah. Right. Um I I will generally be neutral. Yeah. And then people go, uh, that's weird. You know, I turn it on when I need to turn it on. Yeah. Um, but uh you you're completely right, you see that. And and like comedians, like literally, there is a depressive aspect to comedians. Like, I mean, generally you would find that. And I like to also explore all of these things when I talk to comedians. Like, I mean, like, are you happy? You know? Yeah. Are you uh do you feel you're happy? Because I know uh and and uh does comedy actually make you happy? You know? Um are you here for the money and you just happen to be funny, or does comedy make you happy? There are people who like literally need the comedy, and there are just funny dudes who don't need really need it. You know, they're just good at it.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

Yeah, and ended up making some bucks from it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who who do you um see as your mentor? What's the sort of comedy?

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Oh, like all the guys a lot of we learn from each other. So I would say my entire crew from David Cow to Cajisoledija to Joey Razdin to Chris Forrest, um Luis Ogola, um Mark Lottring, all the guys that I grew up with, you know, were very influenced. And these are all caped on boys. So I was we were very influenced by each other. And then there were the old guys at that time. Also looked up to. Um Mark Banks. Yeah. Mark Banks. Was Trevor ever in your circle? So Trevor just came a little bit after. But he is Joe Berg, yeah. Yes, Joe Berg. And then you could just see Trevor, Trevor was just incredible at what he did. And what was Trevor's gift is that Trevor can usually take some these confidence number one. No one is as confident as Trevor, he's supremely confident, and also he's able to take something off stage and then work out the idea and then on stage deliver it flawlessly. So he has a flawless delivery. So that's also tied in with uh confidence. Yeah, apparently his memory is extremely good. And he practices quite a lot, right? Yeah, from what I watched. Right. But that's what no, no, that's what he is, so that's what it is. Like from that time, if you think about Trevor. So Trevor hasn't changed as a comedian, I wouldn't even say. His process is still very much the same. Like I mean, he's a fully formed comedian at that time. And then you'll see that the guys at a certain time they they were funny for the time, but they never worked on their jokes, and now they're not doing as well because they didn't put effort into it, and then there were people kind of funny but worked extremely hard, so they have developed.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

You know? Um It's like sportsmen.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

You can be naturally talented if you don't put any anything into it. Effort into it. You mentioned Trevor's memory. When you think of something funny, what do you how do you remember it? Like do you make a note or send yourself a voice?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

Usually when you create something, it's easier, you can get it back. Right. But now I I I think I need to just make a note of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:53

Um, and then the best way for me is to constantly perform. And then in the morning, I naturally tweak. I find like I it works extremely well to naturally tweak the thing. Because I know from the previous night what worked well and what didn't work well. I get new ideas, I try things out a different way, and then I also understand because I listen to the audience because the laughs is the feedback. Yeah, you know. So the best thing is just to always perform. My best way to create is to have a run in a theater and in the morning write for a couple of hours, two hours.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:29

Where's the best audience in the country? Cape Town. Um don't sit on the fence. Come on, give us a it varies.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

I I would say the Cape Town audiences are more expressive. Okay. Durban audiences sit in the they sit, they are there. They fall. But they're not the most expressive.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:46

Yeah. Even with concerts, like we just sit and watch. I'm saying me as a Durban I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:51

Not the most, but I mean they're there. Right. They fall the place. That's what that's what I appreciate about the Durban audiences. Okay. And and uh it's interesting enough because I will do these shows, and then after the show, I my audience specifically don't clap as much.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

Like at the end of a show, and then you find white people giving me standing ovations. Yeah, yeah. All right. Like even on the weekend, there's like how to do and then just looking at all the Indians and go.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:21

Yeah, yeah. We're very reserved people, aren't we? That's why I think the urban audience is mostly Indians, so it's that culture.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

Especially the Muslim India. Okay. Muslim Indian. More conservatives. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

But they're there. At least they're there.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

They're there. They're pulling in and they're laughing inside. Pulling in and they're laughing inside.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:34

Nobody heckles you, Esther.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

Uh you do it at times.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:38

Yeah. Even now, just to this day.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

But I mean, eckling is like it's not a culture here. Like in the UK, eckling can be harsh because part of the culture. And comedians sometimes invite heckles. Yes, they can. Like Jamie Carr invites heckles, any heckles, any heckles. And I have done it. And then, yeah, let's shout at me, insult me, and I'll insult you back and kind of a thing. Um, but uh You don't bomb these days, like every um like every every show is different. But obviously it happens less.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Bomb is usually a mindset.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

You know, if you maintain your calm and so on, usually I can focus on the person that's laughing then as opposed to. But like it can always happen.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

Right? I was surprised a few few months ago I did a show for the Super Sport Golf Day, one Super Sport Golf Challenger, and all like the best sportsmen from the last three decades there, from Francois Pinard to um like I mean Victor Matfield, all the rugby players. Um uh what's it what's the guy's name? Like I mean, even Neil Toby and Mark Fish and all the yeah, and I died. Yeah. And that was so unusual because usually I'd do that audience and I'd do wow. And it was so bad. Like it was so bad. Like while it's going on, I literally had this thought if I fake the epileptic seizure. I I think I could do it. And then yeah, people I can at least go no, something was going on. Did you manage to pull it back though? I should have. It was horrific. They actually had to stop me. Like the MC's walking up on stage, like took me off stage like a refugee. If you had a blanket, I'm sure he'd like put it over my like nicely took me off stage, and I was like But what do you think then happened? What I think it was related to actually the the genocide. Oh I think it was related to that. So you were thinking of things? No, I was going, I think, you know, I you know you get online and you think people People have certain perspectives and you think people believe certain things and then uh and then obviously it's an audience filled with like really like prominent people.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:18

So all these I was just thinking you know how bad it was. Victor Matfield, right? He had a career where almost every day the most powerful dudes would beat him up. Right? For I don't know how long is a rugby game.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:35

Yeah, 80 minutes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

Eighty minutes, yeah. Right? Beat him up. You know, literally punish him to the point of having concussions and you know, brain injuries, you know, chronic brain injuries, that right? A man is used to enduring pain, you know, maybe getting his a dislocation and then just walking off stage and then the doc goes, no, I'm uh I'm going back in. Yeah right? Who's used to pain, right? You watch my set for seven minutes, and you're like, I can't take this.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:10

He's used to the physical pain, not the hard pain. Not the mental pain.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:14

It's too much, bruh.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:16

So you got that feedback for people didn't want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

No, they liked you afterwards. No, no, they were more compassionate. Brian Abaner said, What happened? Okay. You know, you like hugged me like I had a family member passing away, bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

Like, because they know I usually do well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:33

Um but thanks for sharing the story because it takes a lot to s to come up in part of the community. Even have comedia.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:40

I know you see for comedy it's like it's part of the gig. It's actually a therapeutic thing to make jokes about the whole thing. Right. I'll probably do like a routine about it. You know? I was sitting, I was sitting with uh like uh the rugby players, the winners, the champions, right beforehand.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

Like afterwards, I couldn't I couldn't go back. And then I thought I I need to like I looked at the cricket team. These are chokes. Like, can I sit with you? They even said no, but uh like Yeah. Then I knew it was bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:22

Well thanks for sharing. I mean, everyone thinks that you know, once you made it, then every show is gonna be an automatic success. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:28

We know that. Especially not in stand-up. Stand-up is just how it that's the nature of the gig. But that's why it's actually better from a spiritual perspective. I always say that. Because I mean, you you do a profession where you get elevated. I start my job. Imagine you came to uh uh came to work, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:49

And your patient was like a picture of the dog, you know, like that. Weird. It's weird, bro. I start my job like that, you know, and then you get applause and clapping and photographs and all this jazz, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:07

Um, so for musicians, the this thing can play with the psyche, right? And uh for comedy, you know, you can actually just like lose it. Like, I mean, it keeps you you have to almost remain down to earth to connect to people.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:25

It's just the nature of the business.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:28

But you have to bounce back, man. How uh did it take you long to bounce back from that day?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

Uh it took me a little bit of time, but I joked about it very quickly.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:35

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:36

Very quickly, yeah. So apart from comedy, you so you're not practicing. But that was unusual because it's been years. Years since I've done I haven't ever done had a show that's that was that bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

Right? And I was so surprised that it happened at that time.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:56

What do you do for fun besides making people laugh?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:59

Just hanging out with the kids in the family, playing a little bit of sport with them four.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:03

Four. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

So my youngest is seven, my eldest is seventeen.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

Sure. In this economy, yeah?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:09

Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

Well, that's why he's going to Dubai for the next show.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:14

What are the next shows and things?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:16

So, yeah, next up we're going to Dubai. I'm on the what's the point tour if people haven't caught my show yet. So I'll be still touring uh Durban, Bloom, uh Cape Town. Uh I don't think I'll come back to Joburg again, but I may. Um just like just before I finally, you know, put out the comedy special. Because once I put out the comedy special, then I I won't. But I've been doing lots of shows this year. Right. Lots of shows. So um, so I think it's like about time, but I'm already ready for the next tour. I mean, I got the concept and I just need to not try out the jokes.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

Yeah. Amazing. Dubai, you might check the Gupta's no audience there, you never know. Yeah. Let us know. Uh we always ask this question on the show. Have you asked it yet? No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:06

Well, might be brought to the kids.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:08

We always say if somebody comes to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:09

No, it's not can I. Oh, there we go.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:11

Interrupted.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:11

Yeah, I know. That's like a finale type of question. I wanted to ask you, what's the me knowing a few comedians, and I know how tough it is. It's it's hectic for the young guys that are like starting up and getting into the industry. And to be honest, I'm not calling out Comedy Central here, but they're a big part of bringing up these comedians and giving them a chance. But I noticed like from COVID and even post-COVID, um, Eric Janssen, do you remember it, you know, Eric Jansen? I mean, this guy went and got a job at the airport. He was packing bags in the in the in the pavement.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:47

Yeah. But COVID was epic. There's a few guys who adjusted quick. Like I went out there specifically and I pivoted to doing my virtual stuff. And I was one of the ones who put a lot of effort into it. Mark Lottering went next level during COVID. Like, really. Uh and then a lot of guys, lot of guys like got knocked. Yeah. Even pro guys like me, like, I mean, at my level, got knocked.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:16

And they never also recovered, or they're slowly now recovering. Yeah. Um the thing is, when I got into comedy, it was just for the love of comedy. We didn't know where it could go. That was the difference. Now guys get into comedy, they know there's Trevor Noah. They know there's movies, they know there's TV shows, they know everything. When we got into comedy, it's just, oh, we like this thing. All of my contemporaries. Yeah. Luis Ugola was doing stand-up comedy while he's in high school. Right? He's sort of Trevor Noah's age, but he was part of our crew. You know, he's the young guy, that is Trevor's age. Yeah. He's like almost like uh seven, eight years younger than us.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:58

So my question there was I mean, what do you see for the future of comedy here in South Africa specifically?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:06

Well, I mean lots of funny guys. Lots of funny guys. I think we should expand into Africa, definitely. I think we should have what I'm trying to do of more a comedy club setup, like a like a system like you have in the United States and the UK. People tour through this comedy club setup, but where you can actually make money. So the closest to that is the hospital, the hospital model, the hotel model, right? Is where you actually put shows on at hotels, right? And then it's in different parts of the country. So you should have a hotel because it's less expensive. You've got um Mosa Mocha does these shows. You've you've got like Joe Burgderb and Cape Town, if you could have East London and Port Elizabeth as well, and then also the smaller centers, you know, shows along the garden route, places where people can go. You should just have all these little things that all the comedians must tour through. So it's because like in America, what they do, they just start touring and these little places. By the time they've gone through that, they have a show. You have a new show. And if you then you can go into a bigger theater. You can actually tour through bigger theaters, they are able to do that. Like we just need that, that infrastructure for comedy, like so that people know I'm going to watch comedy, and then they happen to see a great comedian. And then the comedians can sort of ascend uh through that way. But if you don't have that infrastructure, uh there's no way, like I don't think that's gonna happen. Otherwise, they'll do it maybe fame through the social media. Some guys are getting famed through social media and then putting on shows, uh, and then the shows are okay compared to their social media presence. They're not as powerful on the live platform as they are on social media because I they understand the pace of it, which is very, very different.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:13

Um, but some people assimilate quite well. Um, so I think creating that infrastructure where we can actually tour more.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:20

Yeah, I know Mo does that really well. I mean, it's so weird how it translates uh you know, successful in in all industries. Like, for example, here in the dental industry, a lot of people are practicing alone. And there's this thing called a DSO, where like they bring across group practices with multiple dentists that have you know originally been practicing on their own that gets very lonely and you know, splitting costs and things like that. And and this is what I know Mo Samoka is doing, where he's bringing together a lot of well, calling it the show, but then showcasing the comedians. And uh I think that could work very well. I know it was tried with the Goliath brothers at once upon a time. Yes, COVID also knocked that.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:00

Yeah, COVID knocked that on Code. COVID knocked Kurt Schooner's club, the Cape Comedy Club in Cape Town at the waterfront. You know, that was a big thing. Yeah. Like I mean, it's like but Kurt is only now starting to do stand-up again, like he's touring with his own show.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:17

You know? Um because for many years he was involved in the Cape Comedy Club, and then um uh he didn't do stand-up, you know? Yeah. So you're optimistic about the future of comedy and so that really I'm generally my nature is uh uh optimistic, but I know things are gonna change. Definitely things are gonna change. So I even think about uh artificial intelligence and what it's actually going to do to the industry. I know people say that comedians are protected. I guess I guess comedians with a brand are protected. And I think everybody with a brand is protected. You know, that's what they say. If you have a brand and people looking for you specifically, then you're okay. But if you're gonna rely on the AI in the future to go, hey, I want to see a comedy show, and then the AI is gonna tell you.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:07

But South Africans are funny, eh? We're funny people. We've got a good sense of humor because we live like that. It's so much trauma every day. Yeah. It's like an outlet.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:16

When you when you read the comment sections on any post that goes viral in South Africa, the comments are hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

The guys have really good sense of humor. So that's for example, the the nature of what social media is. It's like a lot of the stuff that we were doing as stand-up is now done on TikTok and done there. But then what happens is you very quickly, most of the stuff becomes hack. Most of it becomes just stereotypical and common and things, right? And then only your uniqueness is what sets you apart, essentially. Yeah, you know? Yeah. Um, so, and then there's so much, obviously, where a person just happens to make a funny comment, but now you're getting everybody's funny comment, and that one guy happened to have the best joke.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:08

Doesn't mean now he's the best comedian, but maybe just a bruh. It's a little funny. It happens, yeah. And now that's the best joke. And it gets elevated because it's the best joke. You know, so it's a it's a it's a very confusing time. I'm not saying that I I think it's and especially how they say it's gonna change. Things are gonna change so quickly without us knowing how it's gonna change.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:32

Um but you your old timers must then nurture the young talent coming up, set up something.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:36

Well, you see the old timers give the wrong advice. How old are you? I'm 48.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:40

Okay, so you that's young, but an old timer in the game in South African comedy.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:44

Like, I mean, I I really think that I can only give advice psychologically how to deal with stuff, really. I don't even go like focus on your jokes. I go like, I know the industry, I know like how you deal with this main thing with fame and your aspiration and how you want more and what you think you need and what you're supposed to do, and you know what is a marker of success, what is real success. You know, people have different ideas and a very confusing industry. It's weird because like a lot of guys are, especially as I started, we're elevated very quickly. Yeah, and then you think you're never gonna be like you think you look at these older comedians, yeah. You don't want to be like that guy. You know, he was super famous, right? But then you see now like guys like you know that were up there and now they also struggling like that. And you're entering sort of that era, and it's um it's a it's a challenging thing, you know, um, especially with fame. It's a very challenging thing to have fame and then not have fame.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:49

Is it nice being famous though?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:51

I I don't really care for it much. I like I like people, I like telling a joke and it working. And then if I had my way, I'm a weird guy. It's a dichotomy. And I want to go on stage and tell the joke and people. Yeah. And then off stage, I don't want anybody to know me. Okay. That's the introvert part.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:12

But it has its perks, right? Yeah. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:14

I mean, it's cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:16

So I'll ask the closing question and I'll pitch it in, I'll frame it from the perspective of your kids, right? So if if one of them comes to you and says, Dad, I want to do medicine. Like, do you have any advice for me? What would you say to somebody that tests? Well, my daughter wants to. Okay, and what do you say? The same thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:31

She's 16. Okay. She wants to do medicine.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:34

So you just say go for it? Yeah. You don't you're not much of an advice giver.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:37

Like you don't say, think about this or do that or um Wait, sorry, is this the same daughter that you said would do well in the industry, but she's not in this interested?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:46

Yeah, she'd do well at as a well, I mean she has a talent for acting. Definitely. She's very funny. But she wants to do many. She's mean funny though. Mean funny, but she's very funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:58

I like that kind of humor, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:59

Yeah. And um, and this for my seven-year-old was also like I don't got advanced shock humor for a seven-year-old. Like my daughter says, You mustn't do that, you're gonna get a sin. And he's like, I don't get sins. I'm too young to get sins. Mom and dad get all my sins. Mom's got a hundred sins. 101, 102, 103, 104. It's a seven-year-old. Does a seven-year-old have a joke like that?

unknown 1:21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:30

That's a bit advanced. Must be genetics. No, but I that's I don't do jokes like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:34

Okay, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:36

Like I actually don't do those jokes like that. That's that's that's that's an aggressive joke. But it's funny, it's hilarious. He's like that's his nature. He's also, I think, a maybe a defense. He's a little, he's the youngest. You know, you know. Um, so I I just talk about the ideas of what you actually want to do. Like um, what do you think you'll be most happy at? What's your aptitude, you know? Um, and I think we need to think a lot about it, especially in the era of AI. What what are you putting? I think understanding, I would say do whatever you want to, as long as you also understand money and how it works, you know, because most of the time you can do anything if you manage your money well, you'll be okay. Agreed. Right. So, and I think a lot of like me, I didn't particularly manage taxes and all of that well. I didn't have a I don't have a good system and it affected me for a while. And um That's a typical adopter, actually. Yeah, yeah. And I'd actually just like my kids not to do. I think um kids just to manage their money well, whatever they do. But as long as they're enjoying uh uh what they do and it uh provides um themselves with value and the world with value.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:58

Yeah. Thank you so much. Um anything else you want to say, Jack?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:00

No, I think thank you for being on the show. You prove me wrong. Dear comedians do have personalities off stage. Off stage. Yeah. And uh I think uh congratulations to you for everything that you've been doing. And your show has been quite phenomenal. I think my parents did attend it um in Joburg a few months ago. Okay. And they absolutely love you. My if my dad was in hospital, he would have been here sitting on the couch. Yeah, could be. Yeah. But thanks a lot. And yeah, good luck with uh what happens in Dubai.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:32

Hi, thank you for having me, guys. And this is a good initiative. I hope it grows.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:37

Yeah, I'm just sad you didn't have a dig at the dentist on the show. I mean, yeah, but anyway. You've got to be a good guest. Good guest. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:43

Thanks so much. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, dude.