SPEAKER_01 0:20

Before we start, how many languages do you speak lately?

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Two.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Two. What are they?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Oh, fluently two.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Um, English and Shona.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Shona. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

And then a bit of Debele, but I wouldn't break about it.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Okay. Tell me about growing up in Zimbabwe. What was it like?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

For me, for me, it was um it was hard. It was tough. Um, I wasn't born into a wealthy family or even what can I say? I was born into a poor family, that's exactly what I want to say. Yeah. Because my dad was a security guard, my mom was a general worker.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

But amazingly, that time, yeah, his salary was enough to support a family of five.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Five. So this there's you had four other siblings? No. Three siblings. My mom and my dad. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah. And also extended family.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

And what uh security guard, like what type of where where about what type of jobs are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Like he will just be posted where the company wants to post him.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Okay. Yeah. All right. Interesting. Yeah. And so how did you end up where you are today? What happened? Take us from the beginning. What was school like? Where about in Zimbabwe? Where are you from?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Okay, I grew up in Harare. That's where I was born, raised, went to school. Everything was in Harari.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah. Harare is the capital city, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

It's a capital city, yeah. So the first part of my life was in a place called Hoton Park. Um, that's where I did my primary school.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Okay, and then we moved to a high density area called Mbare. Um, in comparison, it would be like Alex, Temgisa kind of vibe, the ghetto.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Right. Is it so it's the ghetto equivalent?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah, equivalent. Like, but it's like one of the oldest, I think, and well known. Okay in Zimbabwe. Yeah. That's where I did my high school at Tarra High School.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Do they call it townships like how they do in South Africa?

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Or no, no, they don't. Yeah, we just call them by name.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah. So yeah, everything was fine. Like I said, I was not coming from a wealthy family. So, but my dad made sure that we went to school, the two of us. Although we needed to have um social services to chip in for school fees and everything.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Until we finished.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

So social services is what what we would might call grants and social grants and things in South Africa. Yeah. Right. Equivalent, yeah. You're the oldest uh No, the youngest. The the last born.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah. Last born tendencies. Brothers, sisters? What did you do? One brother, one sister.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Okay. Yeah. So you're the baby of the family.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

The baby of the family.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

And um, did you look up to your siblings or did they motivate you, or were you were you the the shining star of the family?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Not really, no. So like what happened is we are not like like many years apart. Okay. So I think in the five years, my mom made the three of us. So my brother and my sister, there's a year in between them. Right. And then I came three years after my brother. So we were like just sort of like the same age range, if I should say. Okay. Yeah. A lot of, you know, sibling fighting, you know, sibling quarrels and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

So what did you do for fun in Zimbabwe growing up as a kid?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Dude, we played in the streets like up until 10, 11, 12 in the evening.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Playing what?

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Games.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Uh skipping rope. There are other games that we used to play. I don't think I would have an English name for them.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Yeah. Well, describe some of them. Like, what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Um, like we make teams, two teams, and then the other team is inside the other one. It's sort of like tag. Okay. Okay, there's tag, and then there was like, yeah, you throw a ball, you try to eat someone, if you them, they're out. Okay, yeah, yeah. And then obviously we'll do hide and sick. Yeah. But it was it was fun. Like I had a very fun childhood. Yeah. Um, it was safe. You know, like we would play in the streets. Our parents wouldn't even be worried that okay, the kids are gonna disappear, or the kids are gonna be where we just played. Yeah. When it's time to go home, you just go. Or when you're tired, you just go home.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

So this is while the parents are at work? At all. At all the evenings. Like during holiday times or evening.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yeah, in the evenings, even after school.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Right. Yeah. And then would somebody come outside and say, hey, let it come, it's time to go.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Not necessarily, no. Maybe school days or but I don't I don't even remember that happening. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Okay. So how was school? Were you good at it academically? Yeah, I think so. Or were you one of the naughty kids in the back with it?

SPEAKER_00 4:42

I was at one of the naughty kids, but I used to be very talkative in class. Okay. But yeah, school was good.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Did you were you were the one making people laugh in class and all that?

SPEAKER_00 4:50

No, not not make them laugh, just like whisperings.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

And co-ed school or all boys, all girls. All girls, yeah. All boys, all girls. So you were at all girls school?

SPEAKER_00 4:58

No, mixed.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Mixed. Okay, okay. And so you're doing okay in school, and then how do you end up getting into nursing?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Okay, so I think I would say nursing found me.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Because never in my life did I dream that I want to be a nurse. Ever. Ever. Even if I saw a nurse, even if I saw anything related to nursing, I never thought I would be nursing.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

None. Not even one day. I'm not even gonna say I I saw something and it was like, okay, I wanna do this.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

What did you want to do?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Okay. Initially, primary school, I wanted to be an Air Horstess.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

But I didn't know what they do.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

I was just fascinated by the way they dress.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

You know, they look so poised, they were always clean. And I'm like, I want to do that. I wanna be dressed like that. I want to look like that. I wanna walk like that. But I didn't know what they did until I went to high school.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Hold on. So you used the word ghetto, right? Yeah. You you you brought up there. So where do you ever see an air hostess?

SPEAKER_00 5:57

On TV.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Ah, okay. So did you guys watch a lot of TV growing? Yeah, we did. We did. What uh was it like the shows we get in South Africa?

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah. I think like, and we also used to watch like South African shows, some of them. Yeah. If they're ed, but we used to watch wrestling things like that, movies, okay, cartoons. Yeah, a lot of them.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

WWE and WWE. Rambo, roll, whatever. And South African shows, like sitcoms, generations and all that stuff. Didn't have not really Isidingo.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

There was, there was Isidingo I remember, and generations as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

So you're this little girl growing up in Harare, and you watch TV and you see this air hostess, and you're like, wow, that looks cool. I want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Yeah, yo, the dressing was just like, okay, I wanna look like that, I wanna walk like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yeah, I want to look good.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

And you never you you never really ever wanted to be a nurse. So how did it just call you? How did it call you?

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Okay, nursing found me.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Like how did it find you?

SPEAKER_00 6:51

If you believe in prayer, then yeah. So okay, so what happened is after A level, which is almost equivalent to your metric. Okay. So we write, we finish, we apply to universities, some get, you know, responses. Some I got a response I didn't want what they gave me because it was gonna be a degree in teaching. I did not want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

So what do you apply for? Like where do you apply and what do you apply for in after your A levels?

SPEAKER_00 7:16

University. You apply to different universities, but the common one for us was the University of Zimbabwe because it was in Error. Okay. Yeah. So I think that's the only university I applied to. Then they were gonna give me a degree in teaching something.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

So you applied, you put down teaching?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

No. That was it for me. Oh. Yeah. So I didn't want it.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

So it's not like so in South Africa, I think what we still do to this day is you you think of what you sort of want to do and you apply for those specific things. Yeah. And then the university comes back to you and says, sorry, or yes, well done. Now, in Zim it works differently.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

When I applied, I actually don't remember if I put anything else down. But when it came back, I didn't want it.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

So here it's back. My mom, I tell my mom, like, I'm not gonna do this. If I want to do teaching, I'd rather just go to a college. Okay. Not to university for teaching. So my mom was like, okay, it's fine. Let's see what happens next. And then um, during that time, I decide, okay, let me try aircraft engineering with the Air Force. Okay. Right. So I apply in the Air Force, but then my my uh my husband, my sister, husband, was in the army. My cousin brother was also in the army.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

And then they discouraged me. Yeah. They were like, you won't survive the training. It's like intense.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Of being an aircraft engineer.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

You have to go through army training before you Oh, the military?

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

So they were like, You won't, you won't survive.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

So you you decided not to do it or not to apply?

SPEAKER_00 8:43

I sort of like tried. Yeah. But then at the end I was like, you know what, let me just drop it. So I dropped it. Okay. And then that's me. That's me now. We are like at home. Yeah. And then I had gotten a job at the grain marketing board as a as a clerk. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna do, let me do it in the meanwhile. Right. You know, whilst I figure out what I really want to do.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

The grain marketing board.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah, that's like, you know, they do the whole grains and thingy. So when farmers are done with farming, they harvest, they take it there. Okay. To the grain marketing board. Yeah. Right. It's a government thingy. Yeah. Yeah. So during that time, you know, must we are in the ghetto, we visit each other, I'm visiting my friends. So I go to my friend's house, her name was Lumbi. So I go there, we're talking, what's happening? What are you gonna do? You know, stuff like that. So when I get there, she's she's in a conversation with the dad. The dad is asking her to apply for nursing. Okay. She's like, no, I don't want to do nursing. So then I'm like, okay, where did that where is the advert? Because I didn't see it. She gives me the paper. There's the nursing thingy. I just looked at it, but I was not interested. And the closing date was the following day. Okay. So we talk, we're like, you know what, nursing is not for us, manuela. Let's leave it. So we left it. Then I went home. And I told my mom, I'm coming from Roombi's house. She was having a conversation with the dad. She doesn't want to do nursing. Wada wada wada. In that conversation, my mom was like, What? I'm like, yeah, but it's closing tomorrow. She forced me to go and take that newspaper. Yeah. At Roombi's house. So I went, I took it. That's terrible. That's in the evening already. So I went, I took the newspaper. I show her. So the closing date is tomorrow. Obviously, I can't post it.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

It's already in the evening. So she's like, tomorrow morning, you're going to write your application and you're going to take it in person. Your mom's saying this. My mom is saying that to me. I'm like, I'm not interested in essay. She was like, no. You are going to go there tomorrow and you're going to take it in person. And as a teenager, there are things that embarrass you. So I'm like, God, how am I going to take my application in hand to a real hospital? The hospital was a hospital at that time.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah. This is what you what age are you at this time? Like 17, 18? 18. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yeah. So yeah, I wake up in the morning. I was not stubborn about it. So I write my application in an envelope and I go to a hospital.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

I had to walk there. It was like 15Ks.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

You walk from home, 15Ks to the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

There was no money for taxi.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

No money for taxi. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

So I walk, I get to HR. You know, I'm scared. Like my heart is beating so fast. I'm like, how do I even start? Yeah. So I get there, I asked them where is HR? They showed me where it is, and then I walked in. So there's this lady and the gentleman, they're already sorting out the applications. Dude, I'm standing there with like my legs full of dust. Yeah. You know, all sweaty and all the things. Oh my goodness. Yeah, yeah. And I'm nails, like my nails are gonna kill me.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

And then the lady asks, like, okay, what do you want? I'm like, I want to apply, but I saw the advert late. So I brought my application. She's like, oh, okay, it's fine. Give me. Give me the application. So I give her the application. She looks at it, then she tears it. I'm like, oh my.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

This is done. This is over.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

I was so shocked when she says she just rips it up. She rips it up, yeah. She reads it, she rips it up. But then she says, she takes a paper and she hands it to me, a born paper. And then she says, You wrote it wrong. Can you sit down and reapply?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

She chose the dramatic reveal.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

So I'm there. I wrote, she gave me a simple application letter. I copy it. Yeah. Then I give her, she stamps it and puts it on the shortlisted candidates.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

And then she was like, Can you go to the clinic and have your medical stad?

SPEAKER_01 12:18

So you uh you've basically gotten the role.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

On the spot, like that.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

On the spot, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

So I go to the clinic, I do my medicals.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

I'm done, I go home, I tell my mom. And the one thing about my mom is if she if she's determined, she will pray about that.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

So I I understand the power of prayer. I believe in the power of prayer.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

So it's almost like she knew what was uh coming for you.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Because where did this come from? I mean, I wanted to get to that point. But where did your mom all of a sudden say you must this is here's this newspaper advert? You come from your friend's house, she says to you, you better go tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

I don't know. Like up until now, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Because presumably when you finished your A levels immediately and then you started working at the grain marketing board and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah, I'd applied. I hadn't gone to it.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

They've given me a clerical job, but I hadn't like But she she didn't intervene then and say this is what you must apply for. No, she didn't.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Okay. She didn't. So, and to make matters worse, why I believed it was because of a prayer. At that time, there was this whole youth service thing that was happening in Zim. Youth service. Yeah. So after you finish your A level, it's either you go to youth service before you go to university. Yeah. Or you go to university, finish university, do youth service before you can start employment. Okay. Yeah. That was like the rules. It was they just introduced it. Yeah. So I didn't go for youth service. It was like, you know, mini, mini training, mini you know, like military training.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

And then so the rule was no one can work in the government without that certificate. Okay. The youth service certificate. I didn't have it.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

But still, she was like.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

So I went, I did my medicals, I was done, and she was like, no, we'll send you a letter when you can come. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

The letter never came.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

After we go.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Weeks go by, months go by, or what?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Weeks go by, months go by. I was supposed to start in June.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

This is July. This is August. Yeah. Nothing is happening. Oh my God, did I fail the medicals or what?

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

You know? So luckily, I don't know if I should say luckily or because God had it in plan. One of the girls I went to church with. She had been taken for the same intake that I had applied for.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

And then she went, she came to me. She was like, Your name is being called in my class almost like every day. They're asking, like, where are you?

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

I'm like, girl, I didn't get the letter.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

So then I went back to our hospital. I told them I didn't get the letter.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

And they were like, okay, no problem. You go in the next intake.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

So I finished everything, like, I sign everything day and there, so that next intake, I'm there. So that's how it was. It's amazing, eh? Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

The days of letters and posts and things, because I mean, if that happened nowadays, surely somebody would have called you and said, What's happening? Why haven't you responded? And luckily you had that friend there that said to you.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Yeah, you're being called. Your name is being called in the class every day.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

So when was the next intake then?

SPEAKER_00 15:05

September.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Okay, so the same year.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

The same year, yeah. So they had three intakes.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Do you remember what year this was?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

2004.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

2004. Sure, 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Yep. And so far.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

We're in 2024 now. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Yeah, that's that's so far.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

So you start in September?

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Yeah, I start in September. I start working. You know, you do the whole um student's thingy.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

No, well, don't brush over that because I don't know what the student's thingy is in nursing anywhere, let alone Zimbabwe.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

In Zim, if you're first year, you know, you have to go there, they give you uniforms, you know, for the first three months while you sort yourself out, they give you accommodation. I remember my mom was super excited when I started. She had to take me to res.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

She made sure my bed is made. Res.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Now where's the res is at the hospital. At the hospital. Yeah. And the hospital is linked to the university.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Yeah, so it's a nursing school. So every every major uh hospital in Zim had a nursing school.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Yeah. So this was like a central hospital. We had a nursing school, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

So she takes you there proudly, drops you.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

So excited.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Not she's not in tears and stuff, crying and my baby's leaving home.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

She was nah, she was just super.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

What were you doing at home in those months where you were waiting and waiting and waiting for that?

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Who's taking, you know, like my friend, I I went into temporary teaching for two terms.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Yeah. Yeah. Wow, okay. So you did do some teaching?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Yeah, two terms, yeah. So my first term was um at a primary school. I was teaching grade ones and grade twos.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

The second term was at a high school, that one was madness. Why like what uh I was like tiny.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

And then I'm teaching it was a boys' school. Yeah. Boys like they were big, like they were tall. If I stand like in between them, I look like the student. So it was crazy nice.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

And they were with the naughty kids and uh what you know, boys will be boys, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

So but it was it was okay because then I saved up money, you know, for stationary and everything that I'm getting paid in the stem job? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Sure. So you did teaching before you could even study to be a nurse. Then you get into nursing, you start in September, your mom goes and proudly drops you off there. She prays for you, obviously, there and uh, you know, every other day. You start now. What is what's nursing school like? How does it work? What is it, theory mostly?

SPEAKER_00 17:21

It's well, the first three months is theory.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Okay, after theory, then they you go to the awards. Okay, so they have they have a schedule. You go to the awards for a certain time, you come back for theory. You go to the awards, come back for theory.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

And um, yeah, we were getting paid.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

How many people in oh you're getting paid to to to study?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

A very good salary, actually. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

This is and this is the Zim government that pays. So you're getting a salary or like a wage, or how does it how do they?

SPEAKER_00 17:47

I don't know if you can say which, but it was like very close to the to the registered nurses already. So we didn't have to worry about accommodation, you know, lights, electricity, blah, blah, blah. All that was covered.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Did you have to get a bank account before you went to this place? Or did you have that in oh yeah, you were teaching before that, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

So because the first time I got a bank account was when I became a student. And the only reason is because my dad had to send me money every now and then.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

So I'm just face, just wondering the logistics around that. Okay. So they're paying you well. Yeah. You're studying, you do the three months of theory, you go into the wards. What's happened? What's the wards now?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Dude, that was it was a baptismal fire. I don't want to lie. My first time in the ward, I went to a medical ward. Yeah. And mind you, 2004, that's when the whole HIV AIDS pandemic thing is starting. Yeah. ARIVs are not really available. Oh. And during that time, people don't want to get tested. Okay. People don't want to know.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Big stigma attached to those times, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Yeah, that time. So in Zim, you actually had to be on a waiting list. Let's say you test today, you're positive. Yeah. They put you on a waiting list.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

For what? Waiting list for what?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

To get ARVs.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Oh, okay. So there was available ARVs.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

They were, but then there were pregnant women. I I know there were first options. If you get tested and you're pregnant, first option, no waiting period. But if you're like someone else, waiting period. So most people deteriorated during that time.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yeah, and this is now your first year of nursing school.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

This is now my first year of nursing school. I go to a medical ward. It was a female medical ward. You had to shroud a body each and every single day. You walk into the ward.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

That means that you're telling me people are dying and you have to cover them up and send them.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

And especially if you're new, right? Yeah. The older students and the nurses, they just look at you like, this is what you've been taught. Come and do it. So we had to shroud bodies.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Nobody's spoon feeding you there.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

No. No, they leave the dirty work for you.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

How many bodies a day? Like, what was it? If you can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

One or two.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

One or two a day, eh?

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Okay. That's so how did you handle that?

SPEAKER_00 19:47

You know, the f the I think the first week or two, it's it's quite emotional, right? A person dies, you've the family is told, they are screaming in the wood. You also, you also go in a corner and you like, you know, 18-year-old uh girl.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Three weeks down the line, dude, my tears were gone. Like I was like, I I cannot be crying twice, three times a day. You know, crying with the relatives. Not because you don't feel their pain, but it's physically exhausting. Okay. Yeah. So you get to that point, you're like, I'm so sorry, but no tears.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Was that the first time you saw a dead body?

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Touch it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Touch a dead body. Yeah, okay. I guess you'll have family members that might die as you're growing up.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Touch it, yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

And you were how did you handle it? Because some people are, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

I was okay. I think I was okay, but it it kind of like the smell sticks.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

You you smell the body like for the whole day until you get used to it.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

And what is shrouding the body now? What do you do? Like literally.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Like you, you know, you have to put cotonol in their nostrils, in their ears, yeah, their mouth, you know, fold them nicely, waiting for the undertaker to come and take them.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Do nurses do that here nowadays also?

SPEAKER_00 20:56

I don't know. I don't know if they do. I never really thought about this because I mean I never Yeah, you have to, you have to, especially the time, you know, those that had like full-blown AIDS, they would have missed themselves. So you have to clean it. You cannot the the undertaker is not gonna take a dirty body. So you have to clean and then call them to come and take the body.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

So are you not also worrying now? Oh, is this am I gonna get sick myself? And all sorts of things go through your mind or not really because you've been trained to know how how it works.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

I wasn't worried about that, eh? I don't know why, but I wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

But were people worried about that kind of thing? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yeah, yeah. Like lots of them, you know, sometimes it was very sad because I mean, yeah, they are sick. I mean, no one applies for it. The last thing you want to do is to make it worse, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

And I also remember in that wood, I would never forget that lady. So I go and work in the wood, right? So what they would do is like those ones that I've got that are very sick. They were put like at the end, you know, the last cubicle. Yeah, you know. So they are there, the last cubicle, that's where all the sickly ones are. Ah, you know, those ones that are just on a selling drip because there isn't much you can do for them.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah, on the deathbed. Deathbed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Kinda, yeah. So I go there. The people who came with the food will just leave the food on the table and go. The nurses wouldn't be bothered to feed them or anything. So I go, there's this lady lying there. She was the only one that time. So I ask her, like, are you not hungry? Because the breakfast plate was still there, the lunch plate was still there. I came in at 12:30. I'm like, Are you not gonna eat? She's like, I want to eat, but I can't. Yeah. I need someone to help me eat. So then I feed her. Then she says, You know, you're the first person to ask me if I want to eat. So I we kind of like become friends. You can see she wanted someone to talk to. So she opens up about her life, you know, how she gets she got to the state and all of that stuff. We we became like very good friends. Yeah. And then I would actually cook for her. Okay. Because the food in the hospital, you know how it is.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yeah, she would cook at res. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

And bring it for her. She says, I I I feel for this that I'll just go cook, you know, fresh and bring it to her. She had a daughter, I remember. The daughter was being looked after at some some home or something. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

And how long do you care for her? Like weeks, months?

SPEAKER_00 23:18

I think a week. And then she passed on. Gosh. So I remember when I came in, you know, when you see the curtains around the bed, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Gone.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

She's gone. I was I was at. Yeah. Like it wasn't easy, but yeah, life.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah, that is really hectic.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

It was hectic. Very, it was hectic. But I think that's that's when I discovered, you know what? I think I was called to be an exposure. I never felt, you know, that judgmental, yeah, you know, like, yeah, how did you get here? Oh, you know, because we knew how it was transmitted, right? So everyone would just assume well you were being promiscuous and stuff like that. But that was not my position. I'm just there to look after you.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah, and you were the first person that I actually spoke to and asked her, Do you want to eat? So you had some sort of empathy that others didn't have there. So you really felt like this is the right thing for me. Yeah. At the time. So that's medical ward. That's the first the baptism of fire. Then how does it work? How you rotate?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

You rotate, yeah. So um the principal from the nursing school is the one who drafts your rosters. Yeah. So she decides, so you would work six weeks in a particular ward, then you move to the next, and and and yeah. And then from there I went to the maternity ward. That was another baptism. There was another baptism of fire, I would never forget. Yeah. And it traumatized me for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Why?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

That ward is hectic. Yeah. And remember, this is a central hospital. All the complicated cases come to us. Oh, okay. Yeah. So you're there, you need to do a certain number of deliveries. You need to. Yo. So I'm 19 now. Yeah. And I'm working in a maternity ward.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Helping women give birth. Not just normal pregnancies, complicated pregnancies.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

So what do you do in that, in the those procedures? What are you, what is your role?

SPEAKER_00 25:05

So you need to be monitored, right? So you have someone who's supervising you. So you choose a case. I want to do this case. And then she comes and supervises you, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Who supervises you?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

The midwives there.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Okay. And where are the doctors throughout this whole thing?

SPEAKER_00 25:19

No, they are there. They're only code when, you know, when they need to be there.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

And do you develop like good rapport and relationships with the team and the doctors or with the team, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

With the team, yes, I think so. But you know how it is, you know, like for some. For some, for some, yeah, you you click. For some, it it just doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Okay. And the doctors, how do they treat nurses in that?

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Is it I don't know. I don't know if it's a doctor's thingy. Maybe you can tell me. Yeah. But there's there's there's always this looking down upon nurses kind of thingy, kind of vibe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

There's like the what they so what do they not speak nicely or very abrupt and just give you instructions and tell you to do things. Do they shout and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah, sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Sometimes they do, yeah. Sometimes they do. Sometimes when you call them, they just ignore you. I remember the other time because the doctors also had their residence like behind the nurse's residence.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

You call a doctor and he will tell you I'm not in town where Ez is back there drinking or something like that. So if you continue calling him when he comes, he's gonna just give it to you.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

And the that's interesting. And the patients, they're all presumably like um lower socioeconomic status, poorer patients. This is a state facility, right? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

So most of them are just I just want to give birth and get out of here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Yeah. So that's the maternity.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Maternity world, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Then what else comes?

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Anything else stand out to you like in your studying maternity world comes and goes, then I get um comsef.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Alright. What's ComServe now?

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Community. You have to go to the community. So you go to one clinic in the urban area, then you have to go to the rural areas.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah. And so I go to the rural areas. My first one was uh it was far. It was it was far. So you get there, there's a clinic. Yeah, you know, you have to run the clinic with the registered nurse, the the things that you need to do, the, you know, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah. And I remember. What do you do? Like take people's blood pressure, all the dispense medication, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Uh those that come for repeats. And where I went the first time, it's there's um predominantly the white government churches that look down on family planning. Right. They just say you need to just the Lord said be food fruit and multiply. Okay. So the men look down on family planning or the church itself. So the women would come secretly to family planning at the clinic. Some come from for the injection, some come for the pill. So those that come for the pill, they've got their own little compartment. They come, they take their pill, they put it back. They come back tomorrow again, take their pill, put it back.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

To maintain that confidentiality from their spouses.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

From the spouses and from the church.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

But how does the church get involved? I mean, presumably, if you like let's just say if you had to prescribe and give uh a woman birth control pulls, right? Yeah, I would I would only assume it's if you're keeping it at the facility, then it's to keep it away from the spouse.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

But now it is the spouse will bring it up in church and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Yeah. Look, you know what with religion, right? They're doctrines. So the doctrine is family planning is killing. Okay. Yeah. So you're you're in the church, you're married in the church, you follow what the church says, but then you realize I cannot be giving birth each and every year, you know? So they come to that realization, uh, you know what, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The church is saying this, but for my sake, I'm just going to go and get family planning and look after myself.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

It's interesting though that the the the clinics actually catered for this kind of thing, though.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

We do. We did.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Because I've heard of the stories, I don't know if you've heard them too, but in South Africa, like even though, for example, things like abortion is l is legal in South Africa, yeah. I've heard that it's sometimes very difficult for people to actually get access to these facilities because they get turned away even at the facilities that are supposed to be doing it.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Yeah. So we did. We had to, I mean, it's a patient, you can't turn them away. That's their choice.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

So we we do as much as we can just to, you know, so that they get the help, and we did it.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Their autonomy was actually respected at these facilities.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

It was actually.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

It was interesting. It's amazing. So how long is nursing, studying nursing?

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Three years.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Three years. So this carries on for three years. You rotate, you go.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Yeah. Three years. Um then my last attachment was at another place in the rural areas. There also I got traumatized to the last.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Tell me. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

To the last. So we go, we're working also at a clinic first. Yeah. And then we go to like the hospital. It's a hospital nyana. It's you know, it covers that small area and stuff. So the clinic where we're working, you have to stay there. So we stay there. Okay. You know, we are not morning. I'm not a morning person.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

But in the rural areas, people wake up so early. Yeah. So six o'clock after six, they're already queuing at the clinic.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Right? You're waking up, you want a bath, you're opening the window, and the queue is from here to wherever. Yeah. You know, they see you and they think you don't care. Because they've been waiting in the queue. Whilst you're busy, you are guys, you guys are busy sleeping. I'm like, so then we had to adjust. I'm like, guys, let's just let's just do it. Let's just wake up, clear the line, and then we can do whatever we need to do after that. What was so you like one of the leaders of the I had to I had to step in because it wasn't looking nice. And you know, this complaints they might end up being taken to your hospital, and who knows what will happen.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

So patients did complain and things like those days.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

They would complain. They did understand that we start work at eight. Yeah. They wanted to be attended to as soon as they arrive. Yeah. But so we decided, okay, let's let's just do it their way. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

So you adapted to the new surroundings.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

We did. And then I moved to the hospital. So the hospital, it was a small Nina hospital, you know, like they didn't have like everything there. So there's this girl that comes. She's 16.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

She's she's coming, she's pregnant, second child.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Already you're like 16.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Second child.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Right? So she comes, she's due, I'm monitoring her, right? Like it's 10 centimeters already, I'm monitoring her. But then you do your test and you're like, the baby, it feels the baby's big.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Okay. So I tell the midwife, the baby's big. Yeah. She's dilated 10 centimeters, but the baby's big. I think we need to do any piece utopia. Then the midwife said no, she can push. So I go first time. I go second time, she still maintains no, she can push. Yeah. At that time, I can see the skin thinning, you know. It's she's tearing. Okay. I go the third time, I'm like, she's tearing. She still insists no, she can push. So the girl, you know, it's it's 10 centimeters already. The edge to push is there, she just pushed. Dude, she exploded. Like she tore so badly. Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Like it was just like this and this stands out to you, yeah? Like you'll never forget this.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, how the hell am I gonna sew that?

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yes, yes. So you have to do all of this, huh? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

So I try to do it. Yeah. But then because you know it's it's so rugged, it's the meat was coming off. Oh God, I would never forget that. Yeah. I would never forget that. She actually had to have the sewing done in theater. It was that bad.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Shh.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

So, like from that time I told myself, you know what? Even if I ever get pregnant, I ain't pushing.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Because it's stuck, it's stuck in my head so much, even up to now, I just traumatized you from the nursing side. I was traumatized, and I I didn't even get to see, you know, like, did was she fine? Did you know? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

And because then once the patient's done, you move on. You move on. That's how it works.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

And then I come back from attachment. I come back to another hospital.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

The nurses go on strike. Okay. This is now my third year.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Right, final yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

So nurses were were striking left, right, and center at that time because things were starting to become really bad. Like what? Salaries, like inflation, everything. So nurses would go on strike, so the third year students had to take over management of the wards.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

So then I had to manage a ward. Wow. As a third year student.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

That's and that's unheard of, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Because there are decisions that you can't make, there are injections that you can't give.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Right. But you have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

No, no, we didn't do it. Okay. The sisters had to swap. They had to rotate in the metrons because they they're not allowed to swap.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

So that's a disruptive thing. How did then how does that affect final year? Do you still go through and pass?

SPEAKER_00 34:07

It affects because your time to study is is like, you know, it's it's limited. When you get to your raise, you are so exhausted.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

And you can't. But it it worked out. It worked out. I don't know how.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

You finished in 2007.

unknown 34:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

And then what happens after that?

SPEAKER_00 34:25

I qualify in 2007. I graduate. Yeah. And then I'm posted to the Benz unit.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's also in Harare Hospital.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Yeah. Same hospital. Benz unit.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Was it a busy unit? Like people getting burnt a lot there.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

At that time, I don't know what was happening, but people, you know, trying to commit suicide, douse themselves with paraffin or petrol, light themselves. There were also like a lot of electric bands, things like that. So it was both the adult and the pids. Yeah. And I should say pids was the worst because those little things we had to hold them down to clean the bands. And they'll be screaming and shouting and everything. It was the worst. So I think I I worked in pids for like two months and then I went to the adult wood. So the adult wood was better. Yes. I can't say better as in, you know, better, but it's you don't have to hold them.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

More tolerable for the clinician themselves. Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

But it was it was acting. And that time I had gotten married.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

I'm pregnant. Okay. First trimester. Right. You know, morning sickness, the smells.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Everything of that sort. But I did it. I I did it. I I would I would scrub the bands. I would dress them.

unknown 35:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Without vomiting. Then did you become like a burns expert type of thing?

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Kinda, I think I would say.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

But then again, things were worse now. Right. In Zimbabwe, like the hospitals didn't have medication.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

They didn't have bandages. Yeah. So relatives had to buy everything.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

And then you've got those ones that have been moved maybe from a rural area to Arare because their bands require that much attention. Okay. They didn't have anything.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yeah, because Arare is like the big city. Yeah. That's because I think even in South Africa, there's not uh correct me if I'm wrong, but there's not that many burns units and there's only specialized places that do it. Yeah, I think so. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

It was hard. So that time things are bad, hospitals don't have medication. And you know, for bands, you need to scrub them with solutions and stuff. And we didn't have, we're just using plain water. And that was my first time seeing mugots on a living person.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Okay. Because yeah, it's it.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

You know, it was heck tech.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

It was it's sounding like this is now the transition from from you being in nursing to out of nursing. Am I right?

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Or amazingly, I still felt I needed to do it. And you know, I got to a point where I would bring salt from home. Yeah. Just to put in the water, at least.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

You know? So at that time, those that had relatives, we would remove the bandages, give them to the relatives to go and wash. Okay. And bring back tomorrow so that we can use them on their patients. Those that didn't have, they didn't have. We'll just scrub them, try and cover them with pillow, pillowcases or shits, but then again we would run out because the whole the unit is full.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

So at that time, that's when for the first time I saw Margot's only living, breathing person.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

And it's not not due to like neglect or anything, it's just a resource. That's terrible, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

It was terrible. So I remember this one boy, he came from the rural areas. They said he was electrocuted whilst heading keto or something. So you know, like with electricity, there's an entry and an exit, and the exit is mostly like the the west part. Okay. So entry was the foot, exit was the axilla. Yeah. So he's in the ward, you know, they are poor. You keep they are poor and stuff. So we we we try by all means most, but and then the muggots started coming out. Yeah. Like from the axilla. Right. So in the morning you clean up, right? Yeah. You remove them, you put in a bucket, you go throw away. So because I had a little bit of salt, then I'll put a little bit of salt.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Before you go home in the evening, they're already the muggets are already showing me. Tomorrow morning when you're coming, they're like this big.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

So how does that how does that end up? What happens to that kid?

SPEAKER_00 38:16

She he ended up getting an amputation, the leg and and the armor. But it was I'll never forget that time. It was you know you want to do your best for the patients, but there was there were no resources.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yeah, no matter what you do, you just you you're fighting a losing battle against the resources. And is that because of the state or the state? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

So and were you pregnant with your first child, yeah. How many kids do you have?

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Two.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Two?

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Two boys, huh?

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Two boys, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Uh so how do you then you presumably you give birth, you take maternity leave. How do you end up in South Africa? Or or what happens between then?

SPEAKER_00 38:56

So, uh my then boyfriend got a job six months into our relationship. Yeah. And then you move to this side. Okay. Uh so I stay in there because I'm still yeah. I'm still in school. So I finish my nursing school. And then I have to stay there because I need to serve, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

So I serve.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

What do you mean? Uh explain that to me. You have to do a few years or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

They call it bonding. So you need to save the government, right? Because they were paying you. So you need to provide your services to the government before they can allow you to. Yeah, they still pay you. But then the salary was just it was nothing, eh?

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

It was nothing. So the bulk of whatever I got was from this side. My salary was not buying anything from from South Africa, from my husband.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Oh, okay. So he was um sending money this back.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yeah, and groceries, yeah, because it was it was that bad. It was really bad.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Because you have a you have a son there now. Uh that no, not really.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I was not. So what happened is I did my year. So when we got married, I would do one week here, one week in Zim. So I would work night shift. One week night shift, one week off. I come to South Africa. And do what? So I did that for the year to be with a guy. Oh, okay, okay. So I go back.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

So until I was like eight months pregnant. So I permanently moved here when I was eight months pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Okay. That must have been tiring, like physically.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

It was very, it was tiring, but it needed to be done.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

And you're working, you're pregnant, you come into South Africa, going back, then eventually you say, Okay, eight months is now cut off.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Like, because I needed to give birth this side. I was not gonna give birth in Zim.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Right? Why?

SPEAKER_00 40:28

So, nah. Why? Because I was still gonna move here anyway. Okay, okay. So eight months, it was January, I think. Yeah, January, then I came to South Africa.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

So that was the plan. You were gonna play your husband's here now, you're gonna settle down here.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

So then I I move. But before that, there's this one interesting thing that happened. Yeah. I remember.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

I was eight months pregnant, that was in December, right? So we drove from South Africa to Zimbabwe at that time. Okay. I was heavily pregnant, like my tummy was just big. Yeah. So we get home in the morning and it's raining, right? Okay. So, like where we stay, no, in Zimbabwe. Oh, okay. We're going back to Zimbabwe. Yeah. So where we stayed, it's like a corner, and it's like one of the main roads that people use in the location. So this lady is going to the hospital. Yeah. Right? We got there in the morning, it's it's raining. I'm I'm exhausted, I'm tired, my feet are swollen, you know, you're eight months pregnant, you don't want anything. So I'm sitting in the house, I'm trying to just catch my breath and breathe. So Mr. Chiguri is busy offloading things from the car. Yeah. Right? We are sitting in the house with my other sister-in-law. So we're sitting there, then we hear like noise from outside. I'm like, I wasn't even like interested. I was like, you know what? People are in the street, whatever. And it's a ghetto must say, it's noisy. That's how it is. So my husband comes in and says, There's someone that needs help outside. So my answer was help. Just help them. Because I thought it's just like You're not asking me for help. You know, like really?

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Yeah. Look at me. Look at me.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

So he goes back out, then he comes back. It's like, no, it needs a lady.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Of all the ladies, why be? You know, so I didn't realize at that time that this pregnant lady was about to give birth by the gate.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

She had walked. She was on her way to the clinic. And then it she just needed to push.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

It was raining. One. She said she can't. She can't go on because the baby's like. So they call me like, no, you have to come and help her, whatever. Whatever. So I go out there. When I lift a skirt, the head is already coming out.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Dude, there's no time for gloves. And I did not even have gloves. Where was I going to get gloves at home?

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

I just received the baby with my bare hands.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Right? Wow. Yeah. You're heavily pregnant also.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

I'm heavily pregnant also.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

With my bare hands.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

I I got hold of the baby because if I had delayed, the baby was just going to go on the ground. So I grabbed the baby, then I called for my sister-in-law. She had she had a fleece thingy. She gave me the flissing, we cover the baby.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

But then we don't have anything to cut the code.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

So I'm thinking, give us blades, you know, like shaving blades. Give us a blade. We cut with a blade.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

You're screaming to your husband this also. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

We cut with a blade. We tie it with with um, you know, string.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Oh, he goes and gets shaving. Yeah. Okay. At least he helps somehow. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

It was hectic. This lady is now there. Yeah. We are thinking, oh my God, she needs to go to the hospital. So I decided not to to pull out the the what do you call it? Placenta. Right. Because then I thought, what if she because she didn't have an injection, right, to stop the bleeding. So I'm like, let me leave it in the cloud. Luckily, yeah. And then we take it to the clinic. So we put plastics in the car, put it in the car, they take it to the clinic.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Your car?

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Yeah, our car. They take it to the clinic with the baby. And then I think everything went well. So Mr.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Chigudo is the ambulance driver, and he is the ambulance driver.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

So drops the woman off at the clinic, then Husband also came and happy family.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Yeah. So in my culture, if someone helps you to give birth, you need to thank them. Right. You know. So she came like I think a week or two with her husband. It was so touching, you know, to see the little see the little baby, all good, nice, and everything. Bought me a very nice set of plates and cups.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

But she is super lucky that she this happened outside somebody who's skilled and trained.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Dude, it was that was like I think a highlight for me. Like that's amazing. In my whole life story. In my whole life, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

So that's December. Yeah. January was my my last. Then I I came to South Africa. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

For good. And what was the plan? Were you planning on working here or okay?

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Yeah. So I came, but first I needed to give birth and just get that out of the way. And then I applied, you know, for registration. It takes a long time. It took me two years.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

What registration now?

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Tell our listeners to register with the South African Nurses Council. But then again, in order to do to do that, you need to go through the foreign qualifications board or something of that sort. Then uh they contact your nursing council in Zim. They send everything here. After that, you have to write a test.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Yeah. When you pass, then you can be registered with the nurses council.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

So you do all of that?

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Yeah. After and it took me two years.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Two years.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Two years, okay. So your your son is two years old at the time. And then you start working, or what happens?

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Yeah, I start working. Um I started this old age home.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Right? In Joburg somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Yeah, in Joburg.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

It wasn't hard, it was just Is it easy to get a job or is it are they looking for for nurses?

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

It's not like you have to battle to get a No.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

You actually choose do I want to do it or don't I want to do it? So yeah, I get a job there, but then we moved to Pretoria. I stopped working there, and then I got a job at this Jewish place. It's a Jewish home for the disabled. Right. And those who are mentally challenged. So I worked there as a night nurse supervisor. It was a year contract. Finished that, left that, went to I worked at clinics, but for a very short time.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Clinics as in the name of the group, the hospital group. Yeah, the C L I N I S. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

So when I went to clinics, I had already applied at MSO, which was um Banage K.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

MSO.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yeah, MSO, Medical Services Organization. Okay. Yeah. Um it's it's all the whole medical aid thingy. So I applied the A as um what's the med what do you mean the medical aid thingy?

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Like what is MSO? What do you what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 46:32

They manage medical aid. So expenditure, everything. So you are those people who look at medical aids, you grant authorizations for admissions, procedures.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Oh, so you're not doing clinical work then uh so after clinics, which was your last clinic.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Clinics, I was like there for a month.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

So I went to clinics because MSO took time to respond. So I thought I didn't get it. Right. So then clinics had an opportunity. I went there, they were they were looking for registered nurses like no men's business. So I get there and in my first week I'm already the deputy sister in charge. Wow. That was too much for me. It was a lot. All right. A lot of responsibilities or yeah, responsibilities, first of all, and then number two, the people's attitude. You know, people were like, why do we need to get a nurse from Zim to be above us?

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Oh, is that it? Is that what you mean by people's attitude? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I If people just look down on you because you're from Zim.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

Yeah. Why should we get someone who's not from here?

SPEAKER_01 47:29

To to now uh be in charge of us.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Yeah, and make us speak English all the time.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Oh okay, that's interesting. I never thought about that.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

There is, you know, uh what do you call it, language barrier?

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

So I had to use English.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

So they don't, or maybe they can't.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

What language were they mostly speaking?

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Mixed Sutu, Pedi.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

And you're not you're not fluent in those, you can't. No, I'm not.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

I can hear what they're saying, but I can answer.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

So that was the biggest challenge for me. And also the world that I was in, it was a medical ward. They're elderly people, they honestly speaking, you can't expect them to be speaking English.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

No, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Yeah, and it doesn't get the message across, you know, things like that. So I was like, you know what? But then I was willing to stay there because that's the opportunity that I had. But then a month after starting the medical service organization, respond and say is come to work.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Responds to what?

SPEAKER_00 48:18

To my application. So I leave the hospital and I'm going to manage care.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

So so you uh you obviously applied for this. Yeah. Which tells me that somewhere along the line you're thinking, okay, working with patients, doing clinical work is no longer my thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Yeah. At some time you just get tired of wiping people's behinds.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

When do you discover that? Okay, so you're getting tired of the Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

And then also because I discovered in South Africa there are so many avenues for nurses, you know, to pursue. Unlike in my country at that time. If you're a nurse, you're a nurse, we expect to see you in the hospital where the kids are. But when I come to South Africa, I'm looking at the job opportunities. I'm like, oh my God, this is so diverse. Okay. So I'm like, okay, let me try this one.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

And I tried and I got it.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

But how do you figure out all these things? Because so you come, I mean, presumably when you come from Zimbabwe and I I don't I'm I'm assuming now. Tell me from you don't know many people.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

You just know your hobby and where you can and his friends. So how do you figure out now about these opportunities and stuff? Do you start? The internet. You research, you take your own initiative and you start Googling and you find these things. Then you you see MSO managed.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Managed K. I was like, you know what? Whatever. I can I can do this. Answering calls, blah blah blah, I can do it.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Oh, cause because on the job application or the vacancy, it tells you you need to do X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Yeah. So I do it. Then they call me, I do their online exam, I pass that one, but then they didn't call me back. So I thought maybe I failed. Okay. But then they call me a month into my working at K.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

I was gonna say, I hope it's not like the application to nursing school where they actually just didn't they you were accepted, but nobody contacted you.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Yeah, so they call me and say you need to start. Yeah. Um, it was like a week when they called me, you need to start next week. Clinics, it was like a month on the dot. I had to resign immediately.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

And you knew you could do, because all that stuff that's listed on the job spec, you knew you could you were you doing all of that in? No, no, you weren't, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

No, I wasn't buying it. So how did you know you can do it? No, dude. There's some things that you when you look at, you're like, anyone that went to school, you can do it. All right. Answer a phone, yeah, I can do it.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

So you get it, and then that's your journey out of clinical. Was that the last time you saw a patient or touched a patient?

SPEAKER_00 50:33

No.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

That wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

But before you get there, tell me. So you get into managed care now. You are basically when explain what that is because you said it's about medical aid authorization.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

So managed care is most medical aids don't manage their own medical aids. You know, they go to managed care companies. So managed care companies are responsible for you know authorizations.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

So basically they are managing the spend when it comes to in-hospital admissions.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

So that's the department I was in. It was in-hospital management.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

So, yeah, that's what I did. So patients or doctors' rooms or hospitals would call. Yeah. They request an authorization for admission. For patients, they request authorizations for prosthetes. Yeah. Authorizations for scans. So you have to look at the patient. How much do they have? Yeah. Their benefits. If they still have your approved, if they don't.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Are you looking at the clinical stuff also? Like the information they send in.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

It was actually very important that you had to be a clinical person for that job.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Um and you can make decisions to like decline things and say, I don't recommend it. Maybe this is not indicated for this condition and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

The doctors hated out for it.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Yeah. Yeah, that's an important that's quite a big important gatekeeping role.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

It was very important because it had to be on the phone with the doctor or the patient or whoever. Yeah. And you need to make that decision in three minutes. We're gonna approve or not or motivate.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

And a doctor's root to you there also on the phone. Like, what do they say?

SPEAKER_00 51:57

Obviously, they want to do a procedure, you're telling them no, we're not paying for it.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

What did they say to you?

SPEAKER_00 52:01

They're like, should I bring this patient to you? I think that's that's one of the Do they always say that?

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Must I bring this patient so you can treat you?

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Must I bring this patient to you so that you can treat them? It was one of the common answers. Must I bring this patient to you?

SPEAKER_01 52:14

And then do they ever say, I want to speak to the manager?

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Yeah, yeah. I need to speak to the team leader, I need to speak to whoever.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

And you have to escalate it and things like that. Okay. So how long do you do that grow?

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Three years.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

Three years.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

And then what's next?

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Three years I move to another company. Yeah. But then I was gonna do case management then. So case management was they're already in hospital. Okay. You have to manage the spend in hospital for someone that's already admitted.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

So it's from admission to discharge and post-discharge if they need care after discharge. Okay. So then I went to work there. I worked there for some time, I think for about six months. And then the company was downsizing because one of the major medical aids they were working with was moving.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

So because I was like in the job, I was like, I think I was one of the case managers working with that medical aid. Right. So they thought, you know what, let we for consistency's sake, we're gonna move with you. So I left that and went to Universal. And then I went with that medical aid.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

And you're doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

And I was doing the same thing. And, you know, in as much as it doesn't sound like there's a whole lot of clinical, you know, management involved, there was a lot.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

To me, it sounds like a lot.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

It sounds like it is a lot because you had to manage from neonates to geriatrics. So you manage admission from a newborn baby that needs neonatal ICU to a geriatric.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

And you have to understand all this. You have to understand all this. You can't just throw me there like as a dentist and I can do this job.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

It was hard though, because at a certain point you're deciding, okay, this baby is done with neonatal ICU A. They have to go to neonatal ICU B. So you have to read everything. Baby's this weight, baby's able to feed, babies this, this, and you're like, okay, medical aid is not gonna pay for neonatal ICU A anymore. Yeah, they need to move to B. And then same thing with ICU for adults. You know, you're like, okay, patient is breathing on their own. Why are they lying in ICU? You have to ask those questions.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Is there no risk that you can just approve everything? Yeah, approve, approve, approve.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

No. Why? It would work against your how does it get checked?

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Objectives. Oh, you have objectives.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Yeah, we have objectives and we had um like a target. You have to save in a month, I think 150,000.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

So that comes from negotiating with the hospitals' rates, right? Making sure that a patient that does not need to be in ICU is not in ICU. Okay. And also making sure that when you approve, um, you know, it's according to the grade, it's according to, you know, what they have.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

The protocols and the guidelines and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

So it it was nice, but it was hard.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Yeah, that's quite a big responsibility also.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

It is. And motivations, doctors will motivate and you still feel no. Yeah. You did not give us enough information, so we are not going to approve it. And then they would get super angry. You know, doctors and admin. Yeah. So they write the first motivation, you're like, nah, it's not good enough. Yeah. If they have to write a second one, you know, we were told all sorts of names. Yeah, yeah. Like we were told off so many times.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

You're giving them extra paperwork.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Yeah, but you still have to be firm. Like, no, we're not gonna pay it.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

It's funny because that you're talking about doctors and doing admin, right? Yeah. And I know this because in your current job we work together, you ended up writing an article, I believe, about the importance of admin.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

Tell me, how did you end up from that to where you are now at MPS South Africa?

SPEAKER_00 55:30

MPS South Africa. That that was an interesting one because that happened in lockdown.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

So you know when when when you're called in lockdown and they offer you a job, yeah, people are losing jobs.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Right? Yeah. You are resigning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:45

It's a tough time. Lockdown.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

It was a tough time, yeah. So people ask me, like, are you are you for real? Are you are you resigning in lockdown? And if you go to that company, it's obviously if they need to downsize them as a first out.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

It's a big risk, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

It's a big risk, yeah. But I took it.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

And so you were also you uh you were still looking, you were uh in the market. You you don't close your options.

SPEAKER_00 56:06

You want to grow as much as you can, yeah, and you wanna go into all you know different areas, but still maintaining your clinical side.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

And you what do you do at MPS? What's your what do you what's your case manager again? Um that's the title, but what do you what is your job actually? What do you do on it? You wake up in the morning?

SPEAKER_00 56:23

Yeah. I wake up in the morning, um, caseload, I get cases allocated to me. So this is about um doctors or the medical food or allied healthcare, just trying to give them guidance or you know when it comes to ethics of the practice, yeah. A bit of how the law says they should handle stuff.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

Sometimes they come to you before they even do it, yeah. And then you guide them, like, okay, you're supposed to do it like this. Sometimes they come to you and they've already done it. You're trying to mitigate, yes, you know, in an instance like that. And then those that have got cases at the board they've been reported or someone has complained.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

The health professions council.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Health professions counsel, yeah. You try and make sure they get the most favorable outcome out of that. Yeah. And also presentations?

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Oh, yeah, you do you do talks on ethics and all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

Yeah, I love that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Did you know you were gonna be doing all this kind of work before you applied?

SPEAKER_00 57:20

No, not at all. I I don't even know how I read the advert. Like how did I even read what was expected of me? Because I do not remember.

SPEAKER_01 57:29

So if I told you, let's just say you were still a case manager at Universal, yeah. And if I wrote out this job spec of what you're actually doing now, and I said you let you and apply, do you think you would have applied?

SPEAKER_00 57:41

I would think I'm not qualified for it.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

Okay. But you're doing it, eh? And you're doing it well. The reason why I'm uh because I know the answer to that question. Almost. I think I knew the answer to that question.

SPEAKER_03 57:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

The reason why I'm bringing it up is because it's important to sometimes, I feel, like, apply for things that you don't even think you can do because you actually can do them.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

Yeah, think out of the box.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

How did you end up like how did you become able to do these things? I mean, did you be at Universal or wherever in your past, you weren't writing letters of advice to doctors and dentists and who can advise a doctor?

SPEAKER_00 58:15

When I was at Universal, I was like, who can advise a doctor? Because doctors used to ask us, like, were you at my medical school? Like, I didn't see you in the corridors of medical.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Yeah, yeah. Dude, there was anything.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

But you you never think I'm gonna say something to a doctor and they're gonna listen to me.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

Yes, yes. And now that's you're sending them letters and they're thanking you for the advice and the assistance.

SPEAKER_00 58:36

Amazing, yeah, shocking.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

How does that happen? How do you become from that? From what like what's the transition? Like how you learn on the job, you get trained.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

You learn on the job.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

You speak to people.

SPEAKER_00 58:46

I speak to people, I had the mentor, you read, very good one, yeah, yeah, he's sitting with me right now. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Thank you, thank you. That's funny because I I wasn't going to use the opportunity. I knew you were gonna say that, but I'll ask it later. Yeah. So you you're comfortable, and so now you're helping doctors and dentists when they need the help. Yep. Right? You're helping the ones that we usually go to for help clinically. Yeah. And now when they have medical legal issues, you you advise them, right? Yeah, it's amazing. Um now you worked in Zim and South Africa.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

How does it compare?

SPEAKER_00 59:21

Very different. Yeah. Very, very different. In South Africa, that's when I realized, okay, you can't be a nurse and be something else. You can be a nurse and be in corporate. In Zim, we always thought it's if you're a nurse, you are at the hospital or you are at the clinic. Okay. That's it. But when I came this side, I was like, oh my God, I can do so much with this, you know, this nursing qualification. Maybe things have changed now in Zim, I'm not sure. Right, right. But yeah, there's so many opportunities for nurses in South Africa. And, you know, just to my fellow nurses, please, the hospital is not your last.

SPEAKER_01 59:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

There's a lot to discover.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

I mean, tell tell people about you've written a couple of articles, right? Did you do you remember what they're about?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

And yeah, the first one was uh the admin.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Yeah, about the importance of admin.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

Importance of admin for doctors. Yeah. Uh, and if if they don't do it, you know, it might potentially land them at the HPCSA, and it's actually expected of them to do it. Yeah. You know, uh, and then the other one was a case study. Yeah. Uh of uh, you know, when there was, you know, kind of like uh a fight between the hospital and the doctor. This one says no, the swab was left by this one. You know, when a swab was left inside the patient. There's a dispute about who left the swab. Yeah, so they want to see, okay, who's to blame? Is it the nest or is the doctor? How do I apportion it and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

So, did you ever think you'd ever be doing that kind of work?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Uh when you I didn't even think I'll be writing anything for anyone to read.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

It's amazing, eh? How it how things just happen and work out.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

If you just yeah, you know, just just try.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

Put yourself out there and try and and you can do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

You can do it. You can do it. I think everyone can do it. Just just try it. Just take the lip.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

Exactly. Now, I know I want to move on to more personal things, right? I know you're very involved in the church. Yeah. Can you tell us about that? How it influences your professional, personal life.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

Uh, I think it influences it a lot. Yeah. Because if you live by the Bible principles, then you know they apply wherever you are, at work, at home. Yeah. Yeah. So the Bible says whatever findeth your hand to do, yeah. Do it as you're doing it unto the Lord. And that's that's just how I do it. If I'm working, I don't I don't do shortcuts, I give it my all. Yeah. Yeah. Even if uh whether I'm gonna be thanked for it or not, whatever finds my hand finds to do, I do it wholeheartedly as I'm doing it for the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

I mean, I can I can vouch for that because I've worked with you, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

But I'm just wondering, I'm thinking back to that patient that said to you, you know what, you're the first person that actually asked, spoke to me. Yeah, like I don't think you're thinking about the Bible when you do all that, right? I mean, that's just it comes naturally to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

Naturally, yeah. I think I'm maybe that's the awakening of the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Because he lives in us, right? Yeah, he influences us, he whispers to us things that we need to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

And yeah. It's it's somehow, even unconsciously or subconsciously, you feel it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

Um you know, with nursing, I don't know if it's for everybody, but for you to become a nurse or to be in the medical field, you need to have respect for life.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

For life, yeah. For life, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

You need every life is important regardless of what's happening to them. You know, I remember when I worked in the orthopedic ward, we had people that came there after being shot by the police.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

Because they are robbers. Right. Or we would get people from prisons that would come to be treated.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

It's not my position to judge, yeah. And to to know to withdraw management or to give them half-begged management because they're a thief or a robber. That's not my duty. The law is doing that already. Yes. So when a patient comes in the hospital, just treat them. All life is precious. I mean, if they are still alive, it means God wants them to be alive, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

And I also feel like you probably you probably care about people's dignity because that woman at the end of the whole ward that was on a deathbed, you know, you you knew you can't preserve her life.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

But yeah, but you know, let her die in dignity, like something like that. So for me, you know the joy that you would get when you do something for someone and then they say thank you, or you see they get better. Yeah. You know, they are when they get discharged, they are way better than when they came. And even if they don't say thank you, sister, or anything of that sort. But you know the joy of knowing that you made a difference in someone's life?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

And when you talk about dignity, I remember this one other time. This lady came, she addoused herself in paraffine, and then you know, she got bent like the whole body. Tried to kill herself, yeah. Yeah, she was she was bent, like she was badly, badly bent.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

And you know, I I would just you don't judge, you don't, you don't tell a person, how Maro, you wanted to kill yourself or a man, you know, you know, yeah, things like that. And it's yeah, it's easy to do that, eh?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

As a human being, you know, like not a professional type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:04

I treated her, she she unfortunately passed away. But because of the way I treated her, she would tell her family, you know, sister sorry, and sources. When she passed away, you know, when the family came to take the body, they came to look for me in the ward. Just to say, you know what, we didn't know you. Yeah, but our relative told us about you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:22

And I was like, oh, that's amazing. That's so sweet. Yeah. And the other thing is, you know, when you when you treat people with dignity, with respect, you never know who you're gonna meet in life. So there's this uh patient who came to the band's um unit. He was working for uh our electricity supply in Zimbabwe. Right. So he had got electric bands, you know, at work. Yeah. So he came. I treated him, he was discharged. At that time I didn't know him like personally. Yeah. But then we went for a church conference.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

I met him there.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

And then he's the one who first greeted me, like, sister, how are you? I'm like, I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

Then he says, Yeah, you forgot me. You treated me at a hospital. And now in my head, I'm thinking, oh my god, we come, we go to the same church.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

Imagine if I had been nasty.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

What message was I gonna be preaching there?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

Yeah, and it's not like you did all of this because you worry that somebody is gonna, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

So just be good. If and I hear most people complaining about nurses' attitude. Yeah. And there is, you know, there are nurses that you know you would rather die at home than be in hospital with nurses that shout at you and demean you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

Yes. Or they just don't want to, it's a it's an effort for them to to help you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

Yeah, it's not right.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

It's not right. That's why I'm saying if you want to be in this field, you have respect for life and respect for people. And it's not like the patients that I treated didn't say nasty words to me. They are in pain. You know, when your life is in danger or you feel like your life is in danger. Yes, yes. We do, we act irrationally. Yes. But you you don't you don't take it to heart. I think that's why Rotona calls me an ice cream.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

She calls you what?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

An ice cream.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Yeah. Ice cream. Oh yes. I can vouch for that. Yeah, because you are very uh stoic and strong and yeah, because not much moves you. But I can I I can I totally understand having heard your story now from the beginning to the end. You can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

You can't because you can't, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

Because life has taught you things and you've been you've seen some and not only from patients.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

We used to work with matrons that were nasty. Yeah. You know, that would shout at you for no reason. But if you want to take that to heart, you're not gonna work that day.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

Matrons? Yeah. Patients, doctors? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

So you have to take the imagine if you're gonna cry every time they shout at you.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

But then again, I would like, you know what, take it. If it's if it's like constructive criticism, you take it, you use it. If it's not.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:44

It's a big if because I'm sure a lot of the criticism is not constructive.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

So then you just and with patients, I just learned, you know what? They might not be angry with me. Maybe they're just angry at the situation right now. You know, it's it's not easy for an adult to come into a ward and not be able to do things that they used to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

Yes. Like sort of simple things.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

Simple things, like bathing yourself, like butthing, like brushing your teeth. So they're frustrated.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:07

Yeah. But if you take that personally, then you're you won't survive.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:13

You won't survive. I wonder, I feel like to be a good nurse or any clinician, actually. You've got to be doing it not because you just wanted it to be a a means to an end.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

Income, yeah. You have to want to do it. You have to be called, actually. Nurses they say, you have to be called.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

And I think you used the word you were called, or found you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:32

I was called.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

And that probably explains it. Now, why am I always hearing about nurses moving to UAE and Dubai and the cash? What's happening? Are they sought after in these places?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:46

For money. It's good money.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

It is good money.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

Did you ever think of it?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

Yeah. Would you do it?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

Even now?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

No. No, no. But I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

I actually Is clinical work ruled out for you now? You'll never do clinical work again. Or should you never say never?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

No, I'm I'm not gonna go back to the hospital, that's what you're asking.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

No. Bedside.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:07

So a lot of nurses are are leaving um Zim and South Africa and going to Saudi Arabia and all these places. The money is better. Are the working conditions better?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:16

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

I don't know. Maybe, maybe they are, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:20

All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:20

But that's that's the one thing. I actually had started the process. You know, must they see your profile on LinkedIn as soon as they see registered nurses, like we've got opportunities. So this other time I was sold, must. I saw I actually saw it on Facebook and they were like, yeah, we need nurses for the United States and stuff. You know, Mus they they sell it to you so nicely. They're recruiting, they're recruiting hard. They want it. They are there.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Because I think we are well trained, yeah, our people.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:44

Yeah, and also because for me, yeah, we use the British curriculum for our nurses training. Okay. So that's that's also an advantage for us.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

Ah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:53

So I did that process, and then I got to a point where I asked myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

So you you were going, you were planning on where? Where to?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:01

United States?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:03

So I wrote their um exam passed, and then we're going on the next step of, you know, um getting verifications and stuff like that. But then I thought to myself, I left clinical nursing because I don't want to do clinical nursing anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:17

If I go to the United States, I'm going back to clinical nursing. I've just changed locations, but I I sort of like went back on my dollars. No, I don't. So I I I I thought about it so hard. I'm like, do I just want the name United States or I want to grow my career? Okay. And I'm like, okay, where I am right now, I love it. I love it. Yeah. I'm not gonna take steps back just because I want to be in the United States of America. Then I dropped it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

Okay. So you can see there's other ways to grow here, yeah. Okay, we'll get to that at the end. I want to lighten things up a bit. Then we get to the, we'll wrap up after that. What's the one thing you miss most about uh Zim that you can't find in South Africa? Is there anything?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:01

Yeah, the organic food.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:02

Really? Organic food, like what do you mean? Like the food is better.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:05

It's better. It tastes better. In Zim? I can promise you, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:08

It tastes better. The chicken tastes better, the beef tastes better. Really? It's it's it's more organic than than just this side.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:15

Interesting. Because you know, people when they come to South Africa from all over the world, yeah. Like, wow, you guys have lovely tasting meat and things.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:22

They should go to Zoom first. They should go to Zoom.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

And also, like, you know, our wild fruits.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

Yeah. The ones that you'll never get in South Africa.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

Oh, so there's lovely stuff there. Yeah. You know, some of us ignorant South Africans, we just we hear Zimbabwe and we think like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:38

Terrible.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:39

It's all, you know, things are burning and dooming and doom and gloom.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:43

Yeah, well, it there's some truth to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

Yeah. But there's beauty to it also. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:49

And uh how do you go back? Do you go and visit people there? I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

Yeah. It's it's it's it's an hour forty-five to fly to Zim.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:56

So you can actually go for the weekend and come back.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

And you go and visit family and friends and things.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:00

My mom and dad are still there in my system.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

Your dad is retired long time ago. Yeah, long time ago. Did he was he a security guard throughout his life?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:08

Throughout. Throughout.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

Yeah, that's brilliant. What's the most beautiful place you've been to in South Africa? And what's the most beautiful place you've been to in Zimbabwe?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:18

In South Africa, Cape Town.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:19

South Africa's Cape Town, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:21

Yeah. In Zem Nyanga.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:24

Nyanga.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

It's your equivalent of Mpumalanga.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:28

God's window, kind of right. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:29

So it's like big landscapes and nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:32

Very nice, very beautiful weather, very beautiful vegetation. Beautiful. It's it's just beautiful. And the weather is like, it's not hot. It's yeah, it's nice. Beautiful landscape.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

Okay. And if you could combine like one thing from South Africa and one thing from Zimbabwe to like make this perfect place, what would what would you put together? The food?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:52

The organic food and the wild fruits?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:55

And from South Africa?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

From South Africa, the economy.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

The economy. Okay. So it's still the Yeah. Yeah. All right. The healthcare system in South Africa, you've been in both, right? What do you what do you think needs to change in healthcare in South Africa? To make this or even in the society to make this place a better place.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

People's attitude.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:22

Attitude. What's wrong with it?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:25

Nasty.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:26

Nasty.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

You know, like you know the fact that people have to sit on a wheelchair or on a stretcher bed in casualty for two days. That's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:37

That's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

I I I agree with you, but I I still wonder there must be a root cause of all of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:45

My and my suspicion is that as I said just now, I think it's because people are getting into healthcare.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:50

Just for the money.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:51

And I'm not saying this to like point fingers at people because it makes sense. You have to make money, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:57

But I don't know whether maybe the there should be a different uh enrollment criteria or like application process to figure out who are the people that actually want to be here. Not want to be for the right reasons. For the right reasons. There must be some way to filter these people out.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:12

But how do we do that? We people are good pretenders, eh?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:15

Yeah. And it's it's difficult to because we also need the resources. So you can't be very fussy and picky. Yeah. Okay, so people's attitudes.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:23

Yeah. I think everything starts with attitude.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:26

Okay. Yeah, I I attitude will make well improving attitudes will go a long way, I feel. Yeah, I agree with you. And then what's next? Any goals, any things you are like? How are you gonna grow? What's the growth if the USA was not worth it? Do you have any plans that you're comfortable sharing? Um do you have uh do you do other things? I mean, I've I didn't touch on this, but I always see you're like quite heavily involved in women empowerment and women of substance. You're always going on conferences. You mentioned conferences, the church stuff. It's quite a big part of your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:01

Yeah, it is. It is.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:02

What is I mean, and you look like one of the leaders there always? No, not really.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:06

I was, I was, I think, for about 10 years. Yeah. I was in the ladies' board for about 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. What is it? What do you guys do? Finances.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

What do you guys do? It's like a community of women, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:16

Yeah, it's the church ladies, and we we do activities, different activities together. So we do fun activities together, we do charity activities, we do, and then we do prayer. Like you know, January, every January I go for prayers with the ladies, yeah. And then September, this last September, we went, you know, for fun, sport. We went to Cape Town to play netbook.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:39

Yeah, and then we we've got different things. Like today, there was um our end of year, and it was a charity thing because we're all you know donating foodstuffs and stuff like that. Yeah. So we do we do everything, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:50

So it's like a community, and you're also empowering women. Where are the boys? The boys that's at home, and what are they doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:57

The boys are doing what the boys do. Okay, and the boys, you mean my kids or Babash Kudu as well?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

I meant, I meant, yeah, both. All the boys, the boys and the men.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:04

Babash Kudu is actually in the church board as well, the main board, and he's responsible for the church's finances and the church's administration, so he holds quite an important role in the church as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:15

And the church is a big part of both of your lives, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:18

It is. Um, yeah. Okay, it is, it is. The boys will, the boys are still young. But my eldest, he's helps sometimes with media, you know, taking pictures and videos in church. Yeah. The little one, oh my god, that one, no shame. He's still going to church to play.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:35

And are they do they mention anything about what they're going to be when they grow up and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:39

They both want to be engineers. Engineers. Yep. Like they're dead. Like they're dead, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:44

Okay. Brilliant. Now, the next question is it's gonna link up with that.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:49

What and I want you to answer me in firstly in English and then in short. Oh. If you can. Okay. Because that'll be good. Um, hopefully, people in in Zoom watch and listen to this.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:01

Is like YouTube and stuff quite uh accessible in the very like it's Okay, brilliant. Okay, so this is the answer. I want you to give an answer to this question, right? What advice would you give to young women considering a career in healthcare or aiming to be a woman of substance um in their own lives?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:21

Um, okay. For a career in healthcare, like I said, you have to have respect for life. That's the first thing. If you know you don't care about people or you don't love humans, then don't.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:32

But it's it's a very good career. And especially now, because there are so many things you can do with your nursing qualification.

unknown 1:16:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:39

It doesn't need to end at the hospital.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:41

You can nurses are even opening practices. You know? Now in South Africa, there's wound care nurses, there's home care, there's agencies that are being opened by nurses. And I also know of um, you know, nurses who are employing doctors. So you can, you can.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:57

Okay. Yeah. It opens up doors.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:58

It opens up doors, yeah. The sky is the limit. I mean, if you want it, you can get it if you put enough effort and dedication into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:06

Do it in Shona.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:08

Oh my god. Okay. Kuneve sewana kwita basare ukoti. Umasa rumovura madu waga wanda. Ibasa runota utu one name memkana yaka wandisa. Awungo peri re mushpachara. No kwansa kuzova kuze shandira. Uno kwansa even ku shandira wanana nemachi remba. So, but kala shina kuva mkoti unofana wungwe une rudo nevan. Nofona ungu uchi respecta opinu weban. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:42

Well said. Look at me.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

You should learn, shona, friend. You should learn. You'll teach me. You should.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:48

Yeah, Chom. Yeah. Queen V, Letty, Letmo. Everything. Everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:52

Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you had a little bit of fun. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:56

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:56

Yeah. It was a pleasure. I learned a lot. So thanks a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:00

And one question for you. Why are doctors nasty to nurses?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:03

Why are doctors? I don't know. Remember, I was only a lawyer and a dentist. So you have to ask the doctor.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:07

So you did work with nurses.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:08

You'll have to ask the doctor. Well, look, the next guest that I get on is probably going to, well, if they're a doctor, I'm going to ask them that question.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:15

Please do. Okay. We just want to know, like, what did we what did we do wrong?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:19

And also, let me let me open up that question to the comments section. Yeah. Can people comment? Doctors, patients, whoever, why let Sister Chiguru wants to know why?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:30

Why are doctors nasty to nurses?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

Okay, let's see what the feedback is and we'll bring it back for the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:36

Please, please. I'm looking forward to reading the comment.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:38

Awesome. Letty, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

It's a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:42

All right. Cheers.