SPEAKER_00 0:00

Dr. Q.

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Thank you so much for being on my show.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

When I started this podcast, um I did mention that I want to have authentic conversations with the guests and find out their background and how they got into healthcare and things like that. And one of the things that's been very tempting for me to ask, one of the first questions that's been tempting for me to ask is tell me about yourself. But I don't want to start off by asking that because the whole point of the show is hopefully you're gonna tell me a lot about yourself as we go through it.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

So I'm gonna resist the temptation to ask you that question as an intro question, and I'm gonna jump straight in and ask you to tell me about your roots. Pun is intended, you're being a dentist. So tell me about your roots. Where did you grow up? What was your upbringing like?

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Yeah, that was a good one, just by the way. Um I am from I'm a small town girl from East London. Um, I was born in Alwa North in Eastern Cape. Okay. Um, close to Stexpread, and I lived a bit in Queenstown as well. Okay. I was in Balmaral for from grade R up until grade two. And then I moved up to East London. Um I started at Clarendon uh Prep for girls, um, up from grade three up until Matric. And then I matriculated. Uh so those are my my roots, roots, uh, my dental roots. Uh I went on and I matriculated and I applied for all the programs, of course, medical, dental, occupational therapy. Didn't get all of them but BSC, medical biosciences.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

So it was a thing of where to from here? Do I go on and take another course or do I start with a BSC? And then I'd heard that there's a program for internal transfer. Yeah, so I decided let me do the BSC and just cross my fingers because they could only take 10 out of the hundred applicants um to be transferred. So I decided, okay, I'm gonna do a BSC medical biosciences and basically transfer there to dentistry.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah. So I got accepted um second year, um, and then I basically started first year dentistry um in the following year.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

So so you've you've you've fast-forwarded a lot for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Because I still want to know how come you moved up and down all over the place, even in your your schooling career.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

So my parents were initially teachers.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Um, my mom was a teacher in Staxprit, and my father was a uh teacherslash principal. Okay. Um in in the deep rurals, Transky and Solmo Tofimbaba area. Okay. Um, so it was more of a thing of we hadn't settled yet.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Um, so obviously my mother and my mom and my dad wanted to be in the same place um to raise us in some way they could both work. So that's when they moved to Queenstown.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Okay, so that's one thing we have in common because my mom was a teacher, grade two teacher.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

I don't know what a my mother was high school.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

My mother was high school and my father was also high school.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

So what made you think of healthcare? Because you mentioned the thing about you applied for all the programs, but there must have been something that even put you in that direction.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

I always, yeah. I always felt like I've I've got sort of an interest there. Um, but I must say I think it was more ignited when I started, you know, the subjects in grade 10.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Right. And I started doing your life science, your physics, and all those, you know, more intricate modules. And I I saw that I I really have a passion for life sciences. I actually ended up tutoring some of my friends, my classmates for for life science, grade 11 and grade 12. So I saw there that the body is very interesting and I'm very interested in the body. Okay. Um, and then number two, I want to be somewhere I'm interacting with people. I don't want to be behind in a corporate office or doing accounting, auditing. Okay. I just find like that's not linked to my personality.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Did you did you guys have like when you were in high school, was there like uh career guidance and all that stuff, or did you just figure this out yourself?

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Or do you I think that we did have somewhat career guidance, I must say, but it was from you know the the generic um healthcare um degrees such as medicine and and you know engineering and accountants. We didn't really have dentistry. I must not lie to you.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Did people come to the school and say, here, uh you got a shadow with somewhere?

SPEAKER_02 4:31

I never even knew about UWC up until I I got to UWC to know that. Um I didn't know, I didn't I I knew it barely, but I was like, I have never been there, never seen it. I know of UCT, I know UP, I know Stellies, but I don't know UWC. Um, so I got there and yeah, then I obviously you know fell in love with the whole degree there. I I I didn't really, yeah, I didn't have that much career guidance, I can say, in high school for dentistry.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

So you knew life sciences is your thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Let me apply. Because I think you have to apply in like grade 11 or something like that, if it's still the same. You must remember in my time when I was in high school, we didn't have like YouTube and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

So but did you at that time or we we barely, um we barely we did have closer, I think, towards grade 11, grade 12, but like earlier on it wasn't that easily accessible to like find out everything and you know, TikTok wasn't there and just all the platforms where you could have someone personally talking about it, not not a whole like formal website.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Yes, so how did you end up in dentistry then?

SPEAKER_02 5:34

So I decided, okay, you know, there's that that phase in grade 10, grade 11 where they do the job shadowing.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

I decided to shadow a uh general surgeon at Frey, um, general medical surgeon. And then, you know, I went for that experience and I found, okay, there are certain parts to, you know, healthcare that I I'm actually not too interested in doing for the rest of my life. Like, you know, from under the the maxillo facial oral region, going, you know, downwards. I saw, okay, maybe I'm not the biggest fan of that.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

How did the shadowing work with the surgeon?

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Do you go to theater and you go to theater with them in grade 11? In grade 11. Okay. You have a form, obviously, from from Claridon Telling stating that this person is doing it for job shadowing purposes and and so on. So they they allow it um for that one day.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

They teach you how to scrub up and everything.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Scrub up and everything, and I was wearing, and then I I will never forget the smell of the quarterizing machine.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Oh, okay. Yeah, like burnt meat almost.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Oh, I I was very, you know, taken aback. Funny enough, we do ginger vectomies, but that doesn't hit me like that that smell of that flesh when you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Okay. So you knew then, okay, the general surgery is out.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

I was like, no, this is this is a bit far out of my scope. You know, it's very important to know yourself. I was like, this is a bit out of my scope, but I still want to be in healthcare.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Then this other classmate of mine, Kristen Bungi, uh, job shadowed a dentist.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

And I was like, you know, I asked her about the experience, and she was like, yeah, oh no, it was actually quite interesting. I think maybe you could check it out and whatever. And I mean, I'd had I had a a dentist that I used to go to from primary going onwards, Dr. Kate Sufuba. Okay. Um, and I'd never really thought about her like that. And then I decided, okay, the next time I go for my dental visit, let me actually ask. And I had conversations with her, and also it hit me in that moment that she's one of the very few black female dentists in East London that are like, you know, taking the dental field, you know, charge. She she's she's head dentist now, but I think she was still, you know, uh an associate back in the day. Um I was I was very taken aback about the fact that, you know, there's someone in Medicross, um Netcare, that's a black female dentist, and she's one of the most demanded, you know, dentists. I think that really that ignited something in me that this is the space that I want to to infiltrate.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

So she might have been one of the biggest, bigger influences in the I I say that all the time.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

She's one of my primary inspirations. Okay. My primary inspirations into going into the dentistry.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Well, shout out to her, then I hope she watches. I mean, does she know that this? She knows this.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

She knows this. She's she's like, oh, funny enough, later on in my life I'm gonna end up working for her.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Oh, okay. So it goes uh full circle. It works.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yes, literally.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

All right. Spoiler alert, but okay. Yep Yeah, brilliant, brilliant. Okay, so UWs then. You went to UWC. Yeah. How did you get there again? Just explain that because you did a couple of yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Yeah, so I was I started in UWC and I finished. So I did the BSC in medical biosciences um and then I transferred to to dentistry.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Okay, so you applied for all the subjects, you get accepted into to dentistry at UWC. They send you a letter to say congratulations, we welcome you. Or how does can you remember?

SPEAKER_02 8:49

So I wish it was that beautiful for me, but for me, it was more like now I'd received rejection all throughout.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

I did I add that information. Yes. So I got rejected to all medical programs and dentistry included. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

When you say all the medical programs, you mean um medical. All all uh all over you applied all over the country.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Yeah, I'd applied for medicine, UP, UCT, um, TransCard. Yes, the WUSU, uh, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Um, and and I wasn't taken in. And now the next step was what do I do from here? So that's why I I started with the BSC in medical biosciences. Um, it was a very interesting trip because initially, apparently I didn't even apply for the BSC in medical biosciences. I'd I'd applied for another BSC.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

So my parents were.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Unbeknownst to you.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Literally, we had to get there, um, I think was it December and beg for them for for me to just kind of switch to the medical biosciences because that's the one Okay, at the doorstep of the university.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

At the doorstep I've heard these stories before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

It's it's one of those stories where I know God's like it's a testimony for me in terms of the bandwidth of God. It was meant to happen the way that it did happen because even the modules that I took, and then when I switched to first year dentistry, it was much more easier for me to, you know, absorb the information. I didn't struggle as much as the first years in in dentistry. It was it was meant to happen.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Well, this is a good bit of advice for people that are considering applying. Don't even give up, even after you've gotten the rejection letter or anything, go to the university.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Go to the university, there's walk-ins, there's uh bridging cancel.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

There's people that cancel also.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Yes, yes. People cancel, so there's always hope. You know, you don't have to stop at that rejection letter, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Really important message. I think that's brilliant. So I would go by it. Okay, so you then you eventually get into the you start the dental program. I can see you for the listeners won't see you rolling your eyes slightly. I don't know if that's a sign of what's to come. But tell me about studying.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

No, well, it's it's how I got into it. Like it's it's the blood, sweat, and tears.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Tell me about it.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Um you know, when they say only 10 people are selected, and then you look around and there's people from you know your classroom and the BSC first-year classroom, it's like more than a hundred of us.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

I think good 300, if I'm not mistaken, or 200.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Just a face and just the crowd.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

It's like a whole lecture hall. And you ask yourself, how am I different or unique from these people? How do I, how do I impress these people? So, you know, I it took a long journey of me having to work over hours, go to the library, coming out of the library at midnight, missing out on first year, some first year experiences, you know, you know first year, you know. So I I had to tell myself that I can't be part of that. I need to be.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

I didn't ask, but it's but maybe I assume this, but you obviously moved away from home to study at UWC.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

So you're staying at uh I'm in Cape Town, I'm in Covac, uh student village, I'm away from home.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

What's covac?

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Covacks it's it's like a a residence that's inside the campus, but it's not an official separate. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

So it is that your first time like staying away from that was my first time staying away from home.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

I definitely I was it was a different experience being independent like that. Did you adapt quickly or um I think because my parents were very overbearing and overprotective people, I was learning new things at a very fast pace. Um freedom at a very fast pace. So I think, you know, when something's going at too much of a high speed, sometimes it crashes.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yes. Yeah. I mean, there's always that risk that like if you come from that background of overbearing, overprotective parents, there's a risk that you might just go.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

You go full on impact and not have sort of a clutch or break to sort of stop yourself. So there were points where I I mean I crashed and then I I reverted and I was like, okay, we're not gonna do that that way again. All right. Um, so I I missed out on some of those experiences. I I I experienced some of those experiences and then I you figured it out.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

It sounded like you had some you you had some system to prioritize things.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

I had I had the urgency. I had the urgency of if I don't make it, then I I I go against everything that I've been trying to gunt.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

So is that like a one of the big motivating factors of making you get through the system?

SPEAKER_02 13:04

I'm a go-getter. I must say that's one of the things about me. Um I'm I'm a go-getter. And I think it took a long time for me to actually say it because I felt like I'm hyping myself or whatever, but it's actually something, yeah, I I realized about myself.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

And I want to say this to you and maybe future guests. This this platform is not the place to be humble. We we need you to be open and honest. Okay. I'm not saying brag, but the reason why I want openness and honesty is both ways when you struggled and when you succeeded, because people need to realize that getting into these types of careers is not just about success. That's what a lot of people see. They have to be.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

So you need to fetch it. And in order to fetch it, you actually have to identify to it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 13:50

So I'm asking you, please go for it. Uh I'm giving you license to talk about whatever you want.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

I'm gonna go ham. I'm gonna go ham. So I I realized then that I'm actually a go-getter and I want what I want. And when I don't get it, I try another way. Okay. Yeah, so I was grinding, hustling throughout that year. It was not easy.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Okay. So now dentistry, right? Yes. Let me tell you about my experience in dentistry. I absolutely hated it. I to me, it felt like especially after the first two years when you actually get into dental school proper at Pretoria. Uh, I don't know, U dubs, I think you get in sooner, but it it was it was tough. It was the most stressful couple of years after getting into clinical of my life. I was I was always stressed the night before. I would have sleepless nights, especially towards the latter.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Yup.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

How was your experience?

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Um, nothing different. I and you really need to be resilient. I really highlight the word that you need to be resilient when you infiltrate that uh that program. That five years molds you into that clinician that you have to be for that patient.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

That's a lot of work. So there's a lot of hours that you put in. Um I felt personally the most um sort of dissatisfying, you know, part about it was that you're kind of working.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

But you're not being paid. Yes. You're kind of working, and then after you get home from work, you need to now study the theory. You've got a test, you've got exams. I'll never forget fourth year. I think you remember fourth year where we wrote about 14 exams.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Okay, yeah, yeah. It's all a blur for me. But I you know the thing is, right? It's a good point you make. You're working, you're seeing real life patients. It's not like, you know, it's not like play, it's not like a simulation.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

This is someone's life that you how does it work? You've got to book patients and we we used to be booked patients for initial visits, and then off you have to sort of follow up with this patient and make sure that you, you know, carry out the treatment and whatever sort.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

So the first time you inject somebody?

SPEAKER_02 15:45

I think that's one of those scary moments. But I I do commend um UWC, the the lecturers and the supervisors, they make sure that, you know, in the initial stage, they're hands-on. You know, it's only in throughout final year and fourth year where they kind of throw you in the deep end kind of can you do it for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 16:02

The reason I asked a specific question about injections, yeah, I can't remember, but if memory serves me correctly, I think the first person that we inject is each other in the class, like our classmates. We sit down, we get a syringe, and we inject each other. I can't remember. If you have a better one.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

I'm not part of that crew.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

How did it work with you guys? We at UWs. I was in Pretoria, so it was.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

No, well, we I don't remember us. Um I don't remember us injecting each other. I remember, I don't even remember the first time I injected. Yeah. I think the the It's trauma blocked. It's trauma, it's suppressed. It's suppressed in my head. Even the first distraction part of it.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Everybody thinks about this, right? Like there was a first time when you had to pick up this big thing and put it in a small cavity. Load the ampule and with a fearful patient there.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Very anxious patient.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

And they obviously may or may not know this, but you are super anxious yourself.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

You hardly know what you're doing, but you're just doing it. I think I I I think my brain really suppressed it. But it was one of those moments where you have to have courage, you have to have resilience that you're gonna you're gonna see the light at the end of the tunnel.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Okay, so how does UWC then work? So first, second year, you do the the theoretical part. Um so take us through like the nitty-gritty of it, if you can remember.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

If I remember, because I transferred from BSC, there's certain models obviously I was exempted from, such as you know, your uh life science, uh care uh chemistry, I'd done all of that, human biology, of which I'm so grateful for because in the BSC year, we had done human biology throughout the year. In first year dentistry, you do it in that semester, you have to have finished it. So it was very um intense. So we do the basic BSC. I think if you know you are wanting to bridge into pharmacy or something after that first year, you still can. Okay, because it's still the prerequisite year.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Um, it's only in second year that you start now practicing baseline, uh period. Um, I remember conservative dentistry fillings, start doing those things. And then obviously there's that practical week.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

So when you say period, it's clear because remember, it's not only dentists that you have. Yeah, yeah. So it's cleaning teeth.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

No, basic, basic stuff, basic uh root, uh not even root planing, uh, scale and polish.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yeah. So cleaning people's teeth.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Cleaning people's teeth, um doing fillings, doing fillings, uh drawing up a treatment plan, different phases of the thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Learning to consult with real life people.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

No, well, I think in second year, you go with your clinical partner. This is what I remember. You have a clinical partner. Yeah, I think this is why I don't remember injection, yeah, injecting because I I had my clinical partner, so my brain went over that fear. So you have a clinical partner, and basically you guys see that patient together, you carry out the treatment. So if there's anything that you might have a mishap with, is that clinical partner that kind of compensates? Yeah. That's good. Yeah, and then only third year do we start like prosthetics and prosthetics is dentures. Yes, dentures, um Crowns and bridges. No, no, no, crown and bridge, I think, was more latter later in like fourth year.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Yeah. So you start seeing patients early. We start seeing patients early, I must say. We start seeing patients, they try to push us, you know, quite soon because obviously you must get over that threshold of seeing a patient and getting over your nerves and all that. Yep, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Was there anything like in particular that you enjoyed in dental school and didn't enjoy?

SPEAKER_02 19:21

The freebies.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Yeah, I always go out with that. The freebies were very awesome. Like free um toothpaste and toothbrushes and I should have come to UWS team, man.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

I got in I got accepted there, but I didn't study there.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

You never got the freebies?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

I don't remember getting freebies, no.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

No. What's happening there?

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Okay, and then what didn't you like?

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Um everything else. Everything else was so traumatic. For me, this endo.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Like I feared root canals.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Prosthetics, because I'll never forget my first experience in prosthetics. Yes. I was about to go and see a patient for the first time ever. And then the lecturer came to me at the at the entrance of the ward and said, Sure. Mr. Naidu, come with me. He walks me out down the corridor, takes me to the bathroom. He says, Here's a Gillette uh shaving foam, here's a razor, please shave. And that is before I could see a patient. I and I had to shave before I could see a patient.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

No, no, no, they're very strict by your side. I we did not have that kind of experience, but we did have, we did have, you know, supervisors that I felt, oh, you were a bit a little aggressive with your approach in terms of teaching us in the in the practical, you know, you know, you're doing practicals.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

I can see you, you you you're treading carefully here.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Yes, because I'm trying to do postgrad, so I love them. Yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I'll tell you my another experience I remember. There was uh there was a senior lecturer who said to me, How often do you have a haircut? And I said, No, every like once a month or something. And he said to me, You must be like Prince Charles and have it two two times a month. And then he said to me that my haircut looks like I should I belong in Falls More prison. So this is just some example.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Oh no. Yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Early 2010s. Uh I mean before 2010.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Yes, yes. Okay, but it wasn't. I don't want to name it and shame, but I I know what you mean. I know what you mean. We've all gone through the brunt and we felt the brunt of the the the And that's just over and above the patient.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

The dentistry is difficult.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

It's not even affiliated with the patients. You just find that this person's not really conducting uh a conducive learning environment, you know?

SPEAKER_00 21:18

And you need that you need that because you need to be comfortable to learn.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

100%. 100%. So I can say that was uh unpleasant. Um the hours, obviously, the theory, it's just a lot, and then you just are put under pressure. Go home and study. Yes, studying you after working. After working, you're so tired, and then obtaining quotas. Oh, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Quotas.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Just explain that for so quotas is basically a sort of amount of procedures, a certain amount of procedures that you should have done before you finish that certain year.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

So by final year, you must have finished a certain amount. So let's say if you have, you know, five dentures you might have must have delivered, you must have made sure by the end of final year you've delivered them. Yes. So Funny enough, I wasn't too bad with my press and uh peds, but I remember Crown and Bridge.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Um, and I remember there's an actual story where it was closer to the end of final year. I'm about to finish, but I'm quite behind with Crown and Bridge.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

And I had a patient. I actually had to supply a transportation.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah. You gotta do what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

You have to do what you have to do. And I remember the one clinic, I was running late, and I finally I had my own car. Okay. And I'm rushing to Mitchell's plane and a taxi crashes into me.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Oh my goodness, yeah. I got into a car accident and was it serious or it wasn't serious.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

They just took off my mirror and my bumper. But I rem Yeah the inconvenience is all. It inconvenienced me so much, and I actually believe that I was gonna repeat final year.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Yeah, I know that that makes so just again, I want to elaborate for people that don't know about the quota system, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

It's very much dependent also on your patients pitching up. Like to be there.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

They cancel, then you know, and the lecturers, they don't care.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yeah, they can't. I mean, they can't read it.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

So it's part of life. Exactly. So if it's either you meet the requirement or you don't. So if that patient decides they're gonna slack mid-treatment, and I remember for our diagnostic patients, they were started, they were starting to sort of run tired with the whole you have to do three disciples, and you remember that whole, yeah. So your patient needs to be there. There's the pressure of the patient being there and being compliant.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Yes. And I brought that up because you mentioned the thing about having to cover transport for your patients. Sometimes they simply can't make it, they can't afford it. They can't afford it.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

That's that's public sector for you. So you have to compensate for that. So that patient is there, that patient gets and receives the treatment.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

So I I remember that was the very scary part of dental schools, not knowing if you're gonna make it or not.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Yes. And the pandemic didn't come in when you were a student.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

It did. When and how it came later on, third year.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Okay, so then what happened?

SPEAKER_02 23:55

So we stopped. So I remember we were all taken home initially, right? And then we were phased in, and we were the last people to be phased in, technically, because I was in third year. So we were out of clinical practice for about I think three or four months. Shh.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Yeah, so that delays things altogether, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:12

I can definitely say it created a setback in our learning.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

And how do you learn? What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 24:17

We were online. Yeah, we were trying to attend lectures, yeah, trying to attend lectures uh online, trying to complete tasks online.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Or very new at that time.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

It's very new, and also it's very easy for you to fall back because you're attending a lecture on a laptop. Yeah, there's no one to keep you accountable. That's the thing. You're not doing the practical portion of it. So we definitely had a a setback that we had to catch up on. That was also the stressful part about fourth year, is that you're not only catching up on fourth year, but you're catching up on third year that you miss.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

It's a whole nother curve, Bob.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

That was something so different.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Yeah, you persevered and like after four months, you go back in and push.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

You have to push. And I feel like we were very strong for that because you know, some people were not so, you know, didn't weren't able to catch up. Some people had to repeat the year.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yes, and also I'm just thinking, if it was me, if I go back after those first few months, I'll be worried about COVID, like scared of COVID.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

We were also, you know, um, and imagine our final year were the first people to go back because they're essential workers.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

So it was very scary, and we were forced to do the vaccine. Everything was just very, we're going as we, we're moving as we're going. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

But it all worked out in the end.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

It all worked out in the past. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Um, and like, so were you looking forward to passing and moving on? And what was the what was I was so excited?

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yeah. Because you get to a point in that five years where you're your your car your your friends outside of dentistry, they're graduating.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

All the non-medical people.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

All the non-medical people, they're graduating, and now you left alone, and now this work intensity is also going higher. You you it gets your mental a bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

They're driving starting to buy cars.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

You're getting people are buying cars, people are working. You're still a student, you're still working on a student budget. It gets draining, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Okay, so you were looking forward to that sort of uh freedom, financial freedom.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

You start wanting to interact with the outside world again. You've been the student for a good five years. For me, it was six.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

So I was Were you looking forward to the actual practice of dentistry though?

SPEAKER_02 26:20

I was very scared. I must not lie. I was very scared, um, but I kept on building my confidence, you know, through clinicals.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

But I was excited to it's important to mention the fear because people need to know this, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Because in my mind, right, without having studied dentistry or anything, I think once you've got that degree, that means you can do every single thing under the sun as a doctor or dentist.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Technically, yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Yes, theoretically.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Theoretically, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

But you you know, as a final year, thinking of next year, comserve, I'm gonna be out on my own, nothing. On my own.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

I think it's very scary because now the supervisors that are sort of spoon feeding you and babysitting you are not there anymore. You it's you and that patient and nobody else to back you up. No one else to back you up. So it's very scary.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

So tell me about ComServe then.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Comserv for me, I I I comserved at the in the in the middle, Nelson Mandela, Mandela Bay um municipality, as you know. Okay, so comserve for me was really great.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Um I I was with a supervisor um time and time again. There were clinics, but I was working in different parts of the Nelson Mandela Bay. So I was Walza State, Utenag, Livingstone.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Um fixed base, like, not fixed base. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Yeah. So I was I was using my car. Yeah. I was using my car car.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

So not even a public um hospital car or something.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Oh no. Oh, that's interesting. You know, well, we're trying then.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

But it wasn't, it wasn't like super rural or it wasn't super rural.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

I think that was also the nice part about it. Okay. It wasn't super rural. Um, I was able to be within the urban part of it and then work in the rural part of it.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

So tell me now, it's it's you, the dentist? Yeah. And you just drive around, you take an assistant, or how does it work?

SPEAKER_02 28:01

I I sometimes have an assistant, sometimes I don't, but I meet them at the CHC. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

The CHC is community health center. Yes. Okay. Yes. And then you do what type of dentistry?

SPEAKER_02 28:11

What so we did mainly extractions, as you know, in public sector. And then sometimes we'd do uh restorative treatments like fillings, small fillings, yeah. Um, and uh some scale and polishes there and there.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Was it like how we had these outreach clinics where the dentists and the team would go in, there'd be a line of patients outside, they walk in one after the other, you inject. You know. Is it like that?

SPEAKER_02 28:36

You know the drill, yeah, and then you have to sort of not intended capsize the number because there's about the thousands of them there outside, and then you get angry, they get angry because you have to capsize and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

No, because people don't know this, a lot of people listening. It's it's it's a fascinating concept where the waiting room is full when you get there.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

And then one by one they come in and you just inject them. Yes, and then they go and wait outside. A hundred percent. And then the line starts again.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

And then, yes, basically, and you're sort of rotating this bunch of people, you then after that you take out, you take out, you take out, you take out.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

And people uh who are not watching this might not see you, but you're quite petite and small, yeah. And you're having to how does that on the body?

SPEAKER_02 29:16

You have to really learn the groundwork behind um oral surgery. Yeah, the the small techniques like elevation and uh chair position, operator position. You try and sort of master those uh aspects because that's what works in your favor. Then yeah, so you find positions that work for you, you find tools that work for you, forceps that work for you, and then you work around it. But but there are some teeth where you're like, Yeah, I know this is testing the physics of my stature and everything.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Because I know patients will come there and they'll see you and be like, Are you gonna pull out my like especially these big men, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Yeah, but they don't realize it's technique more than oh no, and now we're in the public sector, you know, where you're getting your your specific class of men that perceive women a certain way. So they see this person and they enter, and sometimes I don't have a dental assistant, so I'm the only one operating there, and you find they they they very intimidate because how is this small person going to execute this treatment? So a lot of them, you know, go by the term sister, you know, you're not a doctor anymore. Yes, yes, and then you have to sort of demand the respect from them. Yes, it's a lot, it's an interesting dynamic, it's an interesting dynamic, but you work around it because you you you're aware. I grew up around it.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

So okay, and then you so you you you don't feel did you feel like the need to say, sorry, I'm not system doctor?

SPEAKER_02 30:34

I sometimes did when we felt like a patient's now going to undermine your whole treatment, yes, then you must step in and demand the respect. Yeah, but sometimes you find it's their way of life, it's what they know, they don't know better.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yeah, you can't blame people if that's their upbringing and that's what they know. You know, you can't really take it personally. A hundred percent. Even though it's very easy for us as humans to do that.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

100%. So you find with you know, cases where you feel that you need to, then you step in. But sometimes just let it go and and and serve your people.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

You met my wife just now. She and I used to work together at a public hospital in Kumalanga. I would always get irritated on her behalf when like a patient would walk in and look at both of us and say to us, see, we're I'm here to see the doctor and all that stuff. But like I like the point you make. I like the point you make. You've got to just remember where they're coming from.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

100%. Apply the understanding and the practicality.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Yes, okay, but it's useful to know. And what was the most valuable thing that you learned in the community service year or not even dentistry-related thing?

SPEAKER_02 31:32

That yeah, that a public sector is definitely carrying the biggest oral burden, and that's because you know, there's a big gap of no knowledge of oral health and how to optimize it. I feel they don't have the platform, obviously, because you know, public sector, there's there's a there's a lack of resource.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

So you find they're not aware of the in-between treatments like your your endodontic treatments to save your teeth. Right. You know, someone sometimes you find is coming for an extraction for a tooth that could have easily been restored, you know, with the indirect pulp capping or or so on. So there's a big gap um of knowledge that's that's when you say the gap of knowledge, you mean like the patients are coming just I want to take out my tooth. Yes, that's and yeah, they come in for something where you know that you could do more for them, but they're oblivious to that because they've never been exposed to that. And then can you not simply just say to them, these are your options and You do propose, but you know, you find that a person came for a certain agenda, they don't want to work around it because they don't know of it. Okay, so it's not that you don't have the because you could have done a restoration if you know if you you could, but also lack of resource as well, remember.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

That's why I'm asking, because maybe it's a it's an assumption that I'm making, but in most of these public facilities, there's simply no resources for Philips.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

That's that's the thing as well. So you're working against the odds as well. So you find there's not much that you can do for them.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

I get you.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Um, but also this is where you find the dental anxiety sources from is that you know, a person sometimes has a certain upbringing where they lived with their grandmother or they live with their mother or something, you know, in the rurals.

SPEAKER_04 33:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

They only know of dental extractions and then in their adulthood they obtain a medical aid and then they start seeing dentists re regularly.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

But now it's hard for them to sort of have a healthy relationship with their dentist because they only know of the painful aspect of it. They don't know, you know, in in in the private sector, now that I'm in the private sector, I'm able to see that, you know, there is a certain level of privilege because a child that's six years old can come in and then start they they they check up and polish and you know have a preventative approach. So they don't have an anxiety as much as you know, someone who grew up where they just pull teeth.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

So it's all about maybe exposure and um awareness of 100%, a hundred percent. It seems like there's a gap there.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

There's a big gap, and I think this is why I I joined the South African Dental Association and and all these councils, is that I wanted to be that person that goes for school visits, executes this knowledge because I feel they need to be taught, they need to be empowered with the knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Brilliant, brilliant. Okay, I want to get to that sada a bit a bit later. Yes, yes. But before we get there, I mean you've had diverse roles, right? From Comsur. Yes. I think you did internship somewhere, and before dentistry, you dabbled in hospitality as a waitress and brand promoter, etc. etc. How have all these experiences shaped the way you see healthcare?

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Definitely feel like it it built the confidence in me.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Um, dentistry is about the people, right? You being a people's person. And I was a waiter, waitress. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

But were you born a people's person? I feel like, you know, if I look at you, I'm like, this this is a natural, this is natural.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

I think I was. I think I was because uh from 16, I was like, let's let's start promoting. Let's let's get a job.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Yeah, and and then I did promoting. I was handing out flyers. I used to be the girl handing out the ole flowers. Um, why did you do this? Is it it it's okay. I wanted to obtain freedom from from my parents, financial freedom.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Um and I just generally felt the I don't know, I just always make that that first step.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

But I didn't want to wait for the Secure the bag, as they say. I'm not that old. See, I know. No, no, no, you you you're getting me. So I was really the secure the bag kind of girl from a very young age.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

And you actually went out and did it.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

It wasn't just I need to no, I wrote it down, how am I going to okay? I'm 16, it's the legal age to start working. Let me go appear. Handed out flyers, started up, drafted my CV, and then I handed out flyers. I asked these people promoting, I was like, how do you get into this gig? And then they told me, they gave me the contact, and then I submitted.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

And waitressing and everything.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Then waitressing, I applied. Okay, I needed some income for December, so I was like, let me go waitress for a bit after that. Yeah. So then I went, I waitressed at an an Indian fine diner um Aroma. Yes. So it was very interesting, very nice tips.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

But it taught me how to socially work with someone and and how it links to dentistry in that it helped me to sort of master the social psychological aspect. You need to have someone, you know, when I when you're going for a product, they're coming for a product from us. You must be able to sell the product, you must be able to convince the you know the client of the product, and then if they have inquiries thereof, you must be able to provide that to them.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

So it all gave you experience into being a people's personality. 100% how to interact with people. 100% and the sales part of it. So it really helped. I mean, it's not that you just I know you did it to secure the bag and maybe you needed that December money, but actually indirectly.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

It's it started doing something, it started creating or molding a leader in me and sort of someone who kind of goes and gets something and is able to sort of bridge uh and create rapport.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Yes, because presumably you mentioned the tips were great and everything at the restaurant, yeah. But you must have come across, you know, obnoxious clients.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

That's also another aspect. Yeah, it taught me. It taught me about um difficult clients. You will always have difficult clients. So you must accept the fact that you will always have difficult patients. It is part of life, they come and they go, but you you get good clients as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

And you started learning this from the age of like 16.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Very early. You know, as someone, you know, handing out flyers, you need to learn the act of rejection.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

You know, I only learned this after I started practicing.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

I see that some some other, you know, uh colleagues of mine.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

I wasn't the go-getter type. I never did all this stuff, but it's really important.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

It takes something out of you, I must say. I must I'm I knew, I didn't know it was doing groundwork, but it was doing a lot.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Yeah. Sure, that's brilliant. Yeah. So you mentioned this. So you were the shy kind of I was, yeah, I still am, um, but super timid, super shy, didn't like interacting with people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

I would never say something.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Which makes it makes one wonder why would this person get into that?

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Dentistry as a whole. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

This is why I'm also so fast fascinated by this concept of why did people get into it? Because I'm one of those people that ask myself, why did I get into it?

SPEAKER_02 38:00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

No well I I don't have an answer to for me.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

You still feel like I feel like you found your place. I feel like you found your niche.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Eventually, in time. It took time and a bit of, you know.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

It does.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

But uh I didn't have the foresight that you had, which is great.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

I mean, let me not lie to you, dentistry. I didn't really know if it was for me until third year.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Yeah. So it was when I started interacting with the patients, and there's a certain patient that I'll never forget. I always tell the stories that there's a I delivered a dent for them, and they told me, they said they wish and hope that whatever I touch with my hands turns into gold.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Okay. And that stuck with you.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

For me, that was an affirmation that I'm I'm where I'm supposed to be. I'm not sure. I'm glad you remember that.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Because we tend to remember the negatives more than the positives in our field.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

We're always hard on ourselves when there's a negative, but 100%.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

But it's very important to see the collateral beauty in it all.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

And celebrate the wins, eh?

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Focus on the wins. Very good. Otherwise we'll perish.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

I think that's great advice. It's hard to do, but it's it's the correct advice, I feel.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Actively pre practice it.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Agreed, agreed.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

You know.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

So you mentioned the SADA involvement. Now you remember of SADA, I don't know exactly what you explained to me. You also the pediatric society you were involved in.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Yes, the young dents and spoken at the webinars. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

When I mentioned these are all the things that I would have shied away from as a young, newly qualified dents.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

How do these things play in and shape you and help you in your career?

SPEAKER_02 39:29

So I decided, you know, I'm in ComServe. I need to make an impression for post-comserv because now there's the fear of if I don't get absolved, I'm gonna go into the private sector. I need to put my foot into the private sector by making people know I'm here, right? So how else do I make people know I'm here? I need to infiltrate these dental associations and all these spaces where seniors crawl by. So, you know, we perceive private sector as a shark's tank.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Sort of. That's what we we had that notion in final year. And everyone was always so scared and always hoping that they'd stay in in public. So I always knew there's always a chance that you're not gonna get absolved Q. How do you optimize your experience for the private sector?

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Um so you you know, the private sector being perceived as a shark's tank means that when I'm in that water, I must dance like the sharks. Yes, yes. So I must be in the room with the sharks. So I was like South African Dental Association, that's where, that's where I'll be able to to really interact with them.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

It's brilliant. Did somebody like did you figure this out yourself?

SPEAKER_02 40:32

No, I had someone I think who saw what I was doing. I was starting, I was also kind of creating dental content uh throughout my um my third year to final year. Okay. So someone saw the the create the the creation and it was someone who was insider. Yeah. So they were like, please make sure when you're done graduating, you you join. I'm gonna send an invite to you.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

And please do accept it because I feel so it's always been part of my personality.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

I think they they identified that you are a valuable asset to the profession because I think you prep create awareness and inspire people to want to get into it.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

100%.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

I can understand that.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

100%.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

But what I mean is like, did you have the foresight to know that I need to start networking? Because in summary, you're saying I know I need to start networking.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

So so what's also important um in your final year is you must obtain mentors. Right. You must people, people you don't have to have senior mentors, just people who are working post-COMSV. So I would DM my my seniors, and people would graduate it like the year before me and be like, okay, what are you guys doing? What are you guys joining? What are you guys doing here? So I got the knowledge that go and do something innovative, be whatever it is. So I was like, okay, this is it. And then they they highlighted the point of networking. Yes, you must network in the dentistry world. You know this, I know this.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

I didn't know this, I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Okay, well, now you know, you know, that is the key. Yeah, that is the key. That's what's the question.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

How did you identify it so early? Because I only realized this years later, after I'd done the law and become a lawyer, and that's where they they really force you to do business development network and put your name out.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

I feel like we are stunted though in the dentistry, you know, field in terms of outside dentistry. Okay. So I was always just, you know, I always say it's part of my go-getter attitude. It's I was like, how do I I have a plan, I have a five-year plan, how do I get to that person? So that's how I I, you know, uh grabbed these mentors and I asked them, I need your help, I want to join the SODA. So how I feel it's influenced me and and and how it's empowered me, I was able to network and get an ear of, oh, this is how private sector is. And then obviously from that you chat to people at the South African the South African SODA CPD nights.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

You start like how we also met. So you you network and then you find, okay, they allow you to go shadow. So you go shadow there, you get a feel of private sector. And I feel like that's how it's it's impacted me. I before I even applied for these interviews for the private sector, I knew what I uh billing and obtaining authorizations and the whole sort of framework of private sector. So when you get to the interview, you're not talking of someone, you know, post-comsov who's been in the rurals doing nothing. No, I've I've got expertise.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

So what I'm gleaning from this is you've got to put yourself out there. You have to. Because I I remember being the newly qualified dentist, right? Yeah. And at these CPD events, I'd sit right at the back. I'd just be there for the points.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

I didn't have a plan of private. Maybe that's also why. But if you don't go there and show up.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

If you don't put yourself out of that concept, nobody will know you, right? No one will know you. You will be stunted in your experience and exposure, and then you get to that interview, and you're not really, you're just you're just trying to talk about what you know from your from your theory, but you're not actually applying it practically.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

Yes. And presumably when you go for interviews and things like that, people already know you. You know your reputation procedures.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

You they know of you, so you've got a footprint, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Like I said, tell me about this content stuff now, because I didn't know about this from so.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

So it was a brief, it was a brief content creator phase that I had. Um, and I was just creating, you know, being enthusiastic about dental health, being a dental student. You know, it's very straining. You have to have a way of sort of de-stressing, right? So that was one of my ways where I was able to distress. I would create the content, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Um on TikTok or what?

SPEAKER_00 44:28

What is it?

SPEAKER_02 44:28

On on Instagram. It wasn't really TikTok yet during that time. So Instagram and I got quite a quite a big um engagement from my followers. So I started creating it consistently and then people reposted and then.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

And now you've got a you've got a big following, right? Um, I have a moderately big following, yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

I have a moderately big, I have very supportive followers, I must say.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

I like, you know, a lot of people shy away from social media, especially professionals. Yes. I like it because I think it can actually motivate people to want to get into the career. Yes. There's always that risk that you know you get the snake, uh, snake oil salesman that people are misleading the public. Obviously, that's not what I'm talking about. But if you can get people interested in in the career itself, firstly, if you can promote the image of the profession, secondly, and thirdly, also spread awareness to patients that because patients are all on Instagram, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:21

That's the thing. Your market is right in front of you, and all you need to do is just optimize that space.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

So, but you must also obviously within the medical legal bounds. Yeah, you've got to do it responsibly. Of course, please be careful, obtain consent, and and so on.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Yeah, I mean that's I gave a CPD presentation on that. I remember, I remember the same one that I gave at PE, I did yesterday in Bloom. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

It's important.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

If it's done properly, I feel like it's it's it's a win-win for everybody public and professional.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

100%, I must say.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

So now what are you up to?

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Now I'm currently in the private sector. I'm in medical, uh Medicross in Berea, um East London, and I'm practicing my general dentistry. Um, I'm also still in the South African Dental Association and the Young Dentist Council and Pediatric Society. So I'm still doing school visits, um, I'm still, you know, speaking on public platforms such as radio, just to speak, because I love speaking about oral health. I love empowering people about it because I I note when I speak, people are like, oh, this I didn't know about this, and I didn't know about that, and I didn't know this is how you do it. So I find it, it's it's it's the teaching aspect of it.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Do people um like reach out to you and say, you know, you've you've really inspired me? I do.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

I get a lot of people that come to me and are like, I really didn't view it in that sort of aspect. And you know, this is such great work that you're doing for the oral health sector. I get seniors, you know, that come, people that I looked up to during my dental school coming to me, and I'm like, okay, I didn't know that I'm making that much of a difference. So I do.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

It's really nice to when you get that kind of feedback.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Yeah, the impact that you're making.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Do you get negative feedback?

SPEAKER_02 47:06

You sometimes do, but I I haven't gotten from the public platform I've spoken on.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Oh no, that's brilliant because this podcast is only two episodes young, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Yes, yes, of old.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

On the the second episode, which has been very successful, yes, yes, yes. I would say it's gone viral, like thousands of views, right? One of the comments was, um, yes, to the effect that, yes, please uh relax. You you're irritating the way you ask uh questions. And you know, if the first it hits you, right? It hits you.

SPEAKER_04 47:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

But uh I I told myself I should be grateful for this feedback. Yeah. And I responded to the person, I said, I really appreciate your feedback, but if you can just explain to me, because I'm new and I'm learning, give me a page. Explain to me how I'm irritating. And then somebody else elaborated. And you know what? I actually agree with that negative feedback. Yeah. But kudos to you that you haven't gotten anything negative yet. Because putting yourself out there.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

It's not easy, but I think also it's a certain platform. Because now I told you I'd done it briefly, I'd stopped. So I feel like if I'd gone further with the content creation, I would have come across the feedback that you did. And you do get people that disagree with what you're doing, and it's just delivery. That's what matters. And but feedback, good or posit negative, it's always good. Yeah, it's always building.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

And always just remember that no matter, even if you're the most perfect person out there, there will be critics there.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

There will always be a critic.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

And try and focus. What did you say earlier on the on the collateral beauty of it? Collateral beauty of it all. Oh my gosh, that's a great say.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

No, I I I actually got it from a Will Smith movie and I never forgot it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

All right, all right. So that's private, private. What are the, you know, in dentistry in South Africa specifically, yeah. You do have a couple of international viewers, yeah. A handful. What are the unique challenges in South Africa when it comes to dentistry and healthcare? And do you see it evolving in any way?

SPEAKER_02 48:53

I must say in the private sector, it's the allocation of dental funds that's a bit of a problem. Elaborate on that. Um, there's certain procedures that are not optimally covered as they should be for, let's say, uh a root canal treatment, certain medical aids that don't cover um, you know, other procedures, clown and bridge, that are actually they would be really conducive towards that patient. Um, so I've learned that negative setback, but also in private sectors, obviously, the rack, lack of resourcing, um, allocation of doctors, okay, shortage of dental assistance.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

On the medical aid point, yes. I want to just explain that to potentially some viewers that don't know about medical aid, it's some in some jurisdictions they call it insurance, right? Medical insurance. Yes. And if I've understood correctly, what the issue is that a lot of these medical insurers slash medical aid companies don't prioritize healthcare as much as they do the rest of the body?

SPEAKER_02 49:51

The body, and and they don't find it's as important, but it really plays a very vital role, you know, in terms of the person's physical health, but also their own aspect of themselves.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

And then patients come to you and say, Doc, uh, does the medical aid cover this?

SPEAKER_02 50:05

And you have to tell them I have to tell them it's private fee, and then you tell them the actual private fee, and you And they feel like oh, I'm paying so much every month.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

And now, you know, you've lost them, you've lost them.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

And now that person couldn't optimize it in the way that they wanted to. Okay. So funding. All right. Funding, I must say.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

And then dentistry goes without saying is super stressful.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

Uh, how do you manage that and mental health uh and putting yourself out there and all that stuff?

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Yeah, I think I learned after dental school that you really can't make your career your it and all. You have to divert and and be different people. So I went into fitness. So gym is my way of life. That's how I distress. Right. After that day, I've had that difficult patient. If I go and I go training, weight training, and I go with my trainer there, then I'm I'm I'm focused on that aspect. So it makes you sort of deviate and and and sort of explore other parts of you.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

Um, gym, um, church. Yeah, I'm a very faithful person. So I practice my faith in in different ways. I've uh so I I go to praise and worship. Yeah, that's my way. Um so I have a prayer group on a Tuesday that I go to. There's a mass class on a Wednesday where our priest will sort of summarize what he had taught on Sunday. So Sunday, obviously, there's a service, and then on Wednesday he will kind of go through it intricately. Okay. Um, he's more of a lecturer than you know, uh priest of theology. So he's able to explain the different aspects of you know the Bible. And you know how you know people are always wanting to use the Bible as direct uh reference, whereas sometimes it's an analogy or sometimes context, context, context. Not literal all the time. Yes. Um so I get relieved.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

So is that quite a big part of your week? Tuesday, Wednesday, Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

Yes. Okay. I find it's my way of life. Interesting. It's my way of life and way of distressing. Yeah. Brilliant, brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Okay. I want there's a lightning round that I do. It's it's to make it a bit lighthearted and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Um I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Favorite dental tool or piece of equipment?

SPEAKER_02 52:13

I must say my laxator. It's like life saving. Explain to the public. So a laxator is uh oral surgery uh force or elevator, and it's an it's a tool that you use during the time you're pulling a tooth. And I find it's life. It's life. Before you go in and try and strain your arm, you just go in and elevate and then it's almost kind of coming out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Dream travel destination?

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Uh dream travel um between Greece and Paris.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Okay. One book or podcast, except this podcast that you'd recommend to anyone?

SPEAKER_02 52:47

Oh my word, Atomic Habits by James Clear. Okay. I think a lot of people know about it. It's it's an amazing book.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

It's an amazing book.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

If you could eat one food for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

What is what is Mpogoko in English?

SPEAKER_00 53:00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 53:02

I think is pup and and uh sour milk.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

For the rest of your life, that'll be your your that would be fit and all. What's what's the last song on your on your music app? You don't have your phone with you. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Um no, but I I know what I don't really know what you want.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

I don't know. Okay, what's your what's your favorite type of music then?

SPEAKER_02 53:21

My favorite genre, I'm not really specific. Anything that's really good to the ear, but RB, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

All right, but so you don't discriminate, whatever's good in your eye.

SPEAKER_02 53:30

No, anything that's I mean, even rock and roll, if there's something, it's a nice beat, I'm I'm there for it.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Agreed, agreed.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

And what's your favorite way to unwind? I think we've you've given us the answer.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

That um, but a perfect unwind afternoon is after work, I go to gym a little bit, come back, and then take a good shower and then graze anatomy. Oh, okay. From season one.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Wow. Yeah. Do you like do it all over again after you've finished?

SPEAKER_02 53:55

This was my third time re-watching it from season one. And I feel like every time I I learn a new thing and graze anatomy is like, isn't there like 500 seasons or that? It's like 500 seasons. That's what's nice about it. Is you can never get enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Okay, that's a lightning round done. Looking ahead. Uh I'm no, I know you've got an answer for this because I can tell you the person that plants.

SPEAKER_02 54:17

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

What are your goals for the future? Any particular area of dentistry, any communities that are trying to impact?

SPEAKER_02 54:25

There's the NGOs that I want to sort of uh initiate. Um, an NGO for for bullying in schools.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Um, I feel like we we aren't saying enough in terms of bullying, and we aren't empowering the students enough about bullying, and it's one of the factors that are impeding children in their learning experience.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Um, I also want to create an NGO for women of substance. Um there's not enough uh females speaking for other younger females in these fields like engineering and uh dentistry and uh all these very critical, you know. That's awesome. Yeah. So I want to be, I want to grab a friend, uh, me and a bunch of girls that are obviously done and graduated, and we go speak to these children in in you know, low, you know, lower uh and and middle income class, you know, schools um because they don't really get that career guidance, they don't get those people that are gonna go to them. So I want to be that person that kind of creates that bridge for them that black female, your your dream is valid, you can do this. This is those, these are the steps. Because sometimes they want to do it, they are empowered to do it, but they don't know the steps. Yeah, the nitty-gritty of it. Yeah, the APS points, the NBT scores, the the application process, and what I want to be that person for them.

SPEAKER_03 55:42

That's uh brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

I want to be that person, and then obviously, thirdly, in my dentistry field, I want to optimize public health. I want to be on TV, yeah. Um, I want to be on billboards, and I mean I want to still be speaking on platform um public platforms, and then maybe one day I could be a a director, dental director.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

Okay. Yeah. Well, I can I have no doubt that all of that's gonna happen. So that's really it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Um fingers crossed. Fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

Yeah. Okay. So final question I usually ask the guests. If you had one piece of advice for someone thinking of dentistry, what would it be? Somebody comes to you and says, I'm thinking of doing dentistry.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

Just um just be ready, just be a person that can take anything.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

I'm not saying anything, but be able to be resilient, be able to be hardworking, yeah. Yeah, um be able to be social.

unknown 56:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:37

It will definitely take out the the the social portion of you.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

Um, so be someone who socializes, um, people's person.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Yeah, even if you're not naturally one, you're gonna have to become one.

SPEAKER_02 56:49

You're gonna have to become that extrovert. So if you're very introverted and you don't want to come out of that introvertedness, I would definitely reconsider. But if you are ambivalent, go for it. Go for it.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

Brilliant. Thank you so much, Dr. Q. Thank you for making it here in meeting in Joe Burg and having such a interesting conversation. I feel like we could go on for much longer.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

That's the thing, I know whether we would. And thank you so much for inviting me on such a platform. This is gonna go places. So I hope you're right.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

Trust me, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

I appreciate it. Okay, cheers.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Cheers.