SPEAKER_01 0:01

Keefe. Keep it uh Hofa Modimo. Thanks for being my next guest on the show. Before we s get stuck in, I want to play a video for you. Yeah. And I want you to watch it. All right. And then we'll talk afterwards, right? So just just press the play button.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Good evening, uh ladies and gentlemen. Uh first I would like to thank the MC, Yash and Yuti for giving me this opportunity to speak on behalf of Yash's friends on their wedding day. My speech will just be brief. As my friendship with Ayash is a young one, so meeting in 10 years in January next year. I first met Yash in January of 2006 when we were all in first year in the University of Botswana. We stayed in the same press and we were in the same class. I come from Botswana. And at the time I met Yash, I didn't know where he was from. Um my professor in the University of Botswana told us before we left the country that we're going to international universities in South Africa and we should interact with other international students when we get here. So at that time I think about the way of thinking because I used to bring it in my points on the way and teachers and tell me I used to tell some of them thinking that um much I was scared of it because I remember it's a bit like um I went with home and he offered me tea and mistakes and had a and that was when I learned essentially from everyone. From day one, me and that became that point more like uh partners because we had a lot in common. Uh first we both came from families where our fathers were our role models and we wanted to make them proud by doing well at school. And uh in the second year, when things were getting tough, like I used to tell the age that hey, when we studying like, you know, if I fail here, man, my dad is gonna take me to a family to a line. Hey, KP, you know, if I fail here, my father will kill me. But just to to how like we wanted to make our fathers proud, you know. So also we both love to have a good time during our spare time. The big boy is Jeff and asking you to take us to for refreshment. We both love people and uh both generous, but yash is more the extreme of generosity. Like, for example, when we opened uh from December holidays to January 2007, Yash came back with PlayStation 3, and he was the only student who had a medical campus. So there was always a long queue outside the actual to the door of the wall uh of people coming from all races, coming to play PlayStation, and the man didn't have a problem with that. We both loved our families, he invited me to his house in Devon so I could meet his family, of which I eventually did in 2008. And uh when I got here, I saw where the man's good heart comes from. His family welcomed me into their house, and for the two weeks that I was in Devon, they treated me like their own child. Me and Yash, we had uh good relationship skills since we elected to be in the house committee in 2008, and we served our residents with pride, and people that were there during our time with uh Russian and uh witnesses that we made sure everyone had a good time through Yash's uh social subcommittee and as a social hacker. Ladies and gentlemen, I learned a lot from Yach and Youth this relationship. I was not lucky with keeping women while we were still at work. And I always wonder how a young man like Yash managed to do it. I learned from him that humility, patience, and always working at your relationship will keep it forever. And here I am. Um I also managed to coach a beautiful young lady before I finished medical school, and I've been in a beautiful marriage with her for two years, and now we've been blessed with a pretty little boy that we couldn't bring here because it becomes no together. Although I know I shouldn't be asking people who are close to me for advice when it comes to family meters. I still consult with my father now and then if I get a little bit of turbulence with my woman and it doesn't become biased. You were in the wrong. Just tell me that go and fix your problems. With all that said, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to tell my brother Yash that I'm happy for him, and I would like to wish him and Yofty all the best on their new genius, husband and wife, filled with love, happiness, wealth, and lots of babies.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

So that brings back memories. I think that's about almost 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

At my wedding. Yeah. And I know that some of that speech was made up. I'll tell you why. Because only because you said at one stage when you visited me, I offered you tea in my room. Now I know I never offered you any tea. Um, we both know it wasn't tea. So the question I have is Did you really think I was from Russia or was that just you being a comedian?

SPEAKER_00 6:45

No, I wasn't actually. Because um, you know, like we we we remember that time when we started, like there were this um there were everyone like used to wear like things, you know, like we used to wear like this t-shirts, like written Botswana and whatever. It was sort of like uh, you know, to to to identify yourself. Yeah, yeah. Because we're still small and like we could easily get lost and can pass and stuff like that. So that at least when people see you, they can know that you know you you're from this guy, we must take him to this place to find out. So I always also used to think, no, no, this guy's from Russia, you know? Like until like it clicked in my mind that no, no, no, actually, people are just you know, you know, you must remember also But you knew I wasn't white. No, no, no. Yeah, no, that I knew. Probably more like uh Lehoa, you in your mind. But you see, the thing is, I I I came from from a small town where there was no there was not a lot of like um like other races, you know. It was mostly uh black people in the communities and you know, our teachers would be from Zambia. I had one um Indian old man who was my design and technology teacher, Mr. Sharma, was from India. Okay, so there wasn't you know, you you you it wasn't like University of Pretoria, you know, like there, then you meet all different kinds of people, racist and stuff like that, and you still now coming from that background, you you wouldn't know like uh who comes from where. No, no, of course all those things.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah. Okay. So most of it was nonfiction, some of it was made up. The the T part was definitely what was it like uh growing up in Botswana?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah, growing up in in in Lobati. Lobati. In Lobati, yeah. Okay. I grew up in Lobati uh since I was born until I was like uh 17, 18 there about, then moved to I moved to Hamborun to when I was into stay in REST. Yeah, yeah. What do you mean RES? Like when I went to stay in University of Botswana, RES. Okay, yeah. So because what happened is I I went through my my my my schooling was all of it in Lubat. Okay, yeah. Yeah. So primary school, it was uh Botaha Primary School, uh junior school, PTQ. So junior school is like you know, I think um junior school is in Botswana you would go from standard one to standard seven. Okay. So I think that's grade one to grade seven here. Okay, grade one, yeah, grade one to nine or grade three to nine, yeah. Yes, yeah. Then from from there you go from um uh uh uh form one to form three. Okay. That's called junior school. Okay, and then from there you go to senior school now. This is like form four and form five. So you went to University of Botswana? I went to University of Botswana.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

But let's forget. Before we get to that, did you always know you wanted to be a doctor, a surgeon from the time you were growing up?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Well, you know, when when we were growing up is is is is small boys thing. You you would just want to you you just know that you want to be something in life. Okay, yeah, you know. But they was there wasn't specific. Yeah, you know, like our kids here, you ask your kids, hey, what what uh child, what do you want to be? Then they'll be like, No, I want to be a truck driver. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah, yeah. Or policeman or something funny.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Yeah, or policemen or whatever, yeah. But then so that's like in my young age, it it never like so in Lobati, what was being something? In Lobati being something um to be honest with you, in Lubati growing up, there was a lot of guys who would like go to university and then in in in in a late at a later uh stage, maybe after four, three years, yeah, as we were growing, you hear that no uncle whoever whoever stays in in America. Okay, you're like, oh, you're not coming back. They said, no, no, he works there now. And uncle whoever whoever so Botswana used to not have like a fully fledged university that's well developed, having engineering faculties, medicine faculties, and but now things are like f so in your mind, growing up there to make it means m making it out of bots.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Yeah, living, living abroad, yeah. And um what about your parents? They're rich? Were you do you come from like a wealthy family background? No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

I I we I don't come from a wealthy background. So um I was living with my grandmother.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

So my my mother was living in um she lived in a couple of places. She lived in Muchoudi because she was like a into sort of like administration. Yeah, okay. She was she went to live in Muchoudi, she lived in Molepole, yeah, and she went to live in Soshum, a place called Soshum, the Up North. Okay. And she came to live in Haberoun. Okay. So because of that, I couldn't really live with her because they wanted sort of like a stable thing for me to live with the old lady. And like that's how I stayed in Novasi throughout. Okay. Yeah. And then uh your dad? So the old man was living in Rastenberg.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah. So he lived in Rastenberg up until he went on training. Doing what? He was working in mining. Okay. Yeah. So that's so they were like they would come like uh on um on holidays, then we all together.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

So your granny brought you up, basically.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

My grandmother brought me up, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

And were you exposed to doctors and things as a kid? Your family.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Not in the family. Not in the family. Not uh any of my closest friends, but like my grandmother was close with the there was a a general practitioner in Lubat. Okay. Yeah, because I think they were the first inhabitants of that town.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Uh his his name was um Dr. Mossam.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

So this old man Dr. Mossam. Dr. Mossam, yeah. Indian guy.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, he's who was a Muslim old man. Yes. So he I know an advocate, a very well-known advocate with that surname.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

That's why I'm asking. Yeah. So he he he he was like one of the first, first GPs in in that town. Yeah. So all the children, everyone, like even the old ladies when they they're not well, yeah, they would go to him. Okay. And then only if they go to him also, as a yeah, only if they need referrals to go to the hospital, then you would refer them to the and now Lubati is a small town. Okay. Lubati is a very small thing. It's a tiny town.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Is it like a village sort of thing? No, no, like a town. Yeah, it's like a town. What's the equivalent in South Africa?

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Like the equivalent I would say maybe Zirast. I don't know if you've been to Zirast. Um in in in in South in maybe in what can I cash? In Gauteng.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

In Gauteng I could say like um well maybe like a Tongat type of thing in in case they didn't.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah, like Tongat, yeah. It's like a small little town, like Verilem or something.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah. Then how did you end up in South Africa?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

So I ended up here because University of Botswana, as I said before, didn't have like a medical faculty.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah. But you went to University of Botswana for what?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

So how it works in Botswana, like after high school, yeah. You go to to University of Botswana. Okay. So there were two options. At that time when I was I was when I was finishing high school, there were two options. You could either choose to come to South Africa and do like metric at a high school. They used to take people to Abbott's and the Melin College and all that thing in Cape Town and other cities. Who's there? Who used to take what do you mean? They the government. The government used to take that. So you would come to South Africa, do that metric. Once you pass that metric, you go to one of the South African universities and do whatever you like. So that's the one option. That's the one option. The other option is you go to the University of Botswana. Okay. You do whatever you want to do there. Okay. Or you can do like sort of like you can do what the at that time because I wanted to get into medicine, they would they would put you in a pre-medical course. Pre-med, okay. Yeah, pre-med. Why did you want to get into medicine? Well for money. No, no, it wasn't for money. At that time, Dr. Mosam who inspired you. Yeah, the the old man uh inspired me. Like he was loved by most people in the community. Yeah and like I saw like the the way he used to like sort of like change lives and all that stuff. And then because he treated me for a very long time when I was a light. When we get flu, we go to Dr. Mosam. When you get him.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

So it was that thing that you know I want to be some someone like uh was he like the first was he like the first professional maybe that you interacted with as a kid? Not really. I mean you didn't because uh growing up you don't interact with lawyers, you don't interact with architects, maybe teachers, yeah. Of course teachers, yeah, science teachers.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Like uh in terms of professionals, because like uh my mom was a professional. Yeah, uh my most of my aunts were professionals, but the thing is they were all most of them were like into teaching and admin and all that stuff. So now but I think the one thing that really drove me into medicine is I was doing well at school, okay, you know, yeah. So my grandfather, yeah, um, well, my my my my my my grand uncle, right, which is Emily's Emily is my grandmother, yeah, the one that I named my daughter after.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

So my grandmother's uh brother and my grandmother, they they saw that no, this this boys were sharp. Us and poor and pick fluid. You remember you you met fluid, right? I have, yeah. Yeah. So like they wanted us to be professionals. So now they appreciated the fact that they've got children who are professionals, but most of them are into like commerce, into uh admin and and and teaching and all that. But they wanted something else. Okay, you know. Oh, so they encouraged they encouraged us to do something. Um so like now they they sort of like the people who really pressured me into this medicine thing. Okay, but I think I ended up enjoying it myself.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Okay, and uh so they gave you a steer, and uh it's not like you you know, from the time you can remember I want to be a doctor or something. Yeah, no, it wasn't like that. Okay, so so then you went to University of Botswana, yeah. Then to do pre-medical. You get in for that because you're doing well. Yes, right? And then how does it work?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

I got to University of Botswana, I did pre-med. How many years? Yeah, okay. Then we all passed. But as I was doing pre-med, remember the the thing now that you know I wanted to go overseas, you know. Okay, that was your thing. That was my thing, yeah. No, you know, you must go to university overseas and whatever. So now in pre-med, the overseas university was only two universities University of Melbourne and University of Monash.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Okay, Monash, where's that? Also in Australia. In Australia. So two two Australian universities. Two Australian universities, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:24

And then um the other option now after completing this pre-med was to come to South Africa.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

There was a professor there, Prof. Who was who was doing this um allocations and he was administering this pre-med project. So then um the other universities will be South African universities, University of Pretoria, University of Free State, University of Kazaren, and UCT. Okay, all the medical places, right? Four.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

But not VIT, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Yeah, four.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

And uh so now uh and you know that bots is gonna pay for this.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Yeah, bots is gonna pay for this.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

So if you do well, you pass, you've got options of Australia, Australia, or South Africa. Yeah. So you're quite motivated now to do well.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, yeah. And the only person at that time who gets to choose where they go is number one in the whole pre-medical program.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Oh, okay. So you wanted to be the first. So you can have a choice, right? Everyone wants it to be the first one.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Of course. Yeah, to have a choice. But because you wanted to go to Australia. Yeah. But then you you you you would hope that, you know, even if you don't get number one, but you you can limited slots.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

So everybody that does pre-med. Yeah, there's limited slots, so not everybody that does pre-med if you're gonna make it. No, no. So you have to do well. Yeah, you have to do well. So I take it that you didn't get the number one spot. No, I didn't. Okay. I didn't. Do you know the person that did? And did they go to Australia?

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Um, I can't remember, but I think it was some it was one, yeah. There was one girl. Okay. There was one girl called uh Pulani.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Yeah, and she went to us.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Pulani went to to Melbourne, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Okay, so you got the second you got your your second choice, but you ended up in Pretoria. I ended up in Pretoria. Yeah. Because 2006.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah. Yeah. Because there was um, I think there was, if I remember well, there were 10 places in Australia and uh 38 places in South Africa. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

All funded by the Botswana government. I mean, that's that's interesting. Very interesting. No. So that I mean, they paid for the whole education, and then do they give you like terms and conditions where they say if you go there and you fail, or if you you have to do it within this amount of time, or do they say to you that after you pass you must come and work in Botswana for a number of years, all that? How does it go?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

You know, the thing is um those contracts, yeah, they were like um it's not like you know, in South Africa you get Nefsas, right? Yeah, yeah. And then NFSA the fund, student fund system, whatever. So now that in Botswana you get uh your tuition fees get paid, you get an allowance for books, you get an allowance, living allowance, you know. If you stay off campus, you get an allowance to to pay your rent and all whatnot. Okay. But but but the the difference with NSFAS. NSFAS, like you have to sort of like pay the money back in some way or the other. But they they deduct money from your account. Okay. But Botswana? But in Botswana, the there's not no such a thing. If there were courses that were were were considered that if you do this, then it's sort of like a grant.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

So there's no strings attached. You can come to South Africa, you can study here, you don't have to go back, you don't have to pay them back, nothing.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

No, there was no such clause contract, if I remember very well.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

There wasn't any Well, I mean you you will remember because then you'll know I need to go back to the colour. I need to go, yeah. And nobody called you, so no one has called me. So 2006 you make it to South Africa, like now you've you're overseas basically. You're in a different country now. Were you nervous, excited, scared? Who dropped you off here? Who how did you get here?

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Um, so the first time when I came here, I came, I was staying uh with this friend of mine called James. Okay. Yes. We went to the same banister. Yeah. So you traveled with him? No, I didn't travel with him. Yeah. When I came, I came with a bus. Yeah. Okay. Just then hopped on grandmother drops you there, or yeah, like my mom was already in Habronia at that time. Yeah. So she dropped me off at the bus. Then I took a bus. I came. Yeah. I stayed at James's flat. And your first time you've been to South Africa? No, no, no. Okay. Remember, like the old man was staying in Rastenberg. Oh, yes, yes. So you've been here before. So always been going to Rastenberg. It wasn't the first time in South Africa. And like some of my family members are in Mafiking and Freiberg. Okay, okay. So you always used to go there with the old lady, you know. And also going to Petersburg, to Moria.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

And it's also not the first time you're staying away from home because you were at University of Botswana. So you were you had tasted the freedom of student life. Student life, yeah. One and a half years. Yeah. So you get here.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

So I get here.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

And then it's the first time you're seeing white people or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

No, no, not really. Not really. Because remember, like I would go to Rastinburg, you know, then like we interact with uh other fellows and whatnot, you know, the swimming pools, you know. But um it wasn't the first time I'm seeing like Caucasians. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

So I I I but you were expecting international students. Oh, yeah. You found a guy wearing a shirt that says Russia, but it turns out he's from Durban. And then yeah, how was university?

SPEAKER_00 23:45

So like yeah, like uh when I got here, like I met James. James is staying at his flat. Um so uh now James helped me to do like my stuff, like university registration, going to the in bus. Like, yeah, that's you know, that admin of first year. And then I got I got to be placed in Rice by the university and all that. And then um yeah, so then started staying at Hippo.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Hippo, that's uh one of the senior raises at uh the University of Pretoria. And then how was how was undergrad?

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Yeah, bruh. Yeah, undergrad.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Was it uh like a rude awakening or was it anything like pre-med or the pre-med prepare you?

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Well, I I I felt like it was just a continuation of pre-med, yeah, but now on a sort of like a a better level. Okay, you know? Yeah. Pre-med. Pre-med, we were home, yeah, and like we were like you know, your parents could just walk in at any time. Yeah, yeah. If they find you doing things that are of naughty boys and stuff, then they they will like call you to order. Yeah, yeah. So now here we're in Pretoria, it was like full, like now full freedom. Full freedom, yeah. Which is and then like also like sort of like discovering yourself, growing.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, and um, so yeah, like Did you think that oh made a big mistake? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

At that time I was already in like happy. But you know, when we're when we were undergrad, yeah, we were not even thinking about careers at that time. Yes, yeah. Remember, we were just about okay, we go to campus, yeah, we come back, we study, you go play, yes, you know, Friday. Have fun and and and yeah, enjoy the ride. And progress, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

And I mean, six years is a woman. Which is what I'm I'm trying to get at with this podcast because I just I'm trying, I I wonder if there are people that have thought about their career, carefully, planned it, and then gotten into it and executed. There's a plane flying over here at your house.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

You know what? Um, I'm I'm gonna speak for myself, yeah, but for other people, but I because what I I realize is that you know, when you're still young, you you you you sort of like, okay, you're getting into this career, even though there's career guidance and whatnot. But I don't think like small ladies like pay attention to a lot of things. You're too young. You're too young too. You're too young to like think, okay, I'm gonna become a doctor, I'm gonna become a professor. No.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

I think it's just a thing that you know what and I think that's why the American universities and things, because remember, we had a guy that studied with us uh on exchange from America, Anand.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Anand.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

And he would tell us that in America that they they find themselves for the first few years. They go to you to college or whatever they call it, and there's no plan. But the plan is to find yourselves. We don't have that luxury here in South Africa and Botswana. In touch, we move. We need to get out there and start earning and and supporting ourselves and families and things. Yeah. So, okay, so you get into university, there's no regrets. It's not like my me, where so you were you were working towards this goal, and you but did you think you want to be a surgeon at this stage? Nothing in your mind.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

At that stage of nothing. Nothing. I think the only time when like I sort of, you know, like at that time, Yesh man, we know we'll come back from thing, play PlayStation, from from campus. Hey, let's go study, we study, and then we sleep. Yeah, tomorrow we get into class again. Second year is dissection, we're smelling of formally in the whole day and whatever, whatever. And then I think for you guys, then uh when you started uh dental school proper. Yeah. Was it like now at end of year, end of second year, right? Yes, yeah. Yeah, so end of second year, you start sort of like working now with in the dental hospital.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah, so the first two years in in in the University of Pretoria, the medics and the dentists are all together. Yeah. And then after second year.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

After after second year, second semester or something.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yeah, the dentists then go their own way and the doctors carry on their thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Yeah. So but with us in medicine, it wasn't really that a weekly. I would say like it was still basic basics of medicine in first and second year.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

So the only time when now I thought I want to be something, like maybe a sub-specialist in medicine, right? Was in third year. In medicine, you mean internal medicine? In in in no no no. In in like medicine. Oh, in general, general, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

You want to do, but what did you think you wanted to specialize in?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah. So now the thing is now in third year now, you start doing cardiology. I think that was the first thing that we did in first. Like a block. In third year. Yeah. Yeah. Because I the the way I remember is because now uh this is the time now. This person who raised me, Emily, now started getting sick. Okay, your grandma. Yeah, then uh they would update me from home. They're saying oh, the problem is her heart, and she's got uh plural effusions. And this is that.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

How would you stay in touch with home? Because people don't realize we didn't have WhatsApp and all those things in those days.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Those days, um, so Emily had a telephone at home. Yes, a landline. A landline, yeah. But now the cell phones I think had already started. Yeah, yeah. But it was, you know, those those phones that you're free, yeah, yeah. So that you'd call and whatnot. So like uh they had those cell phones at home. Like stay in touch with them, yeah, like that.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

And then your grandmother's getting sick at this time.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Sick at this time. Now she's she's she's moving in between my mom and and my aunt, and you know, like, you know, yeah. So but distracting also for you, right? Exactly. But now the thing is, now we start doing cardiology, and like it's becoming interesting. And the professor as well, Prof. was very like enthusiastic. He left uh good teacher, yeah, you know, demonstrating everything to us and whatnot. So it's those things I could sort of like relate what Emily is going through. Okay. The heart failure, the the plural effusions, what causes all those things because Prof. explain all those things to us.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

So it wasn't just like abstract, it wasn't theoretical, it was now you can find practical application, what you're learning.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah. So that then that time I thought, oh, you know what, one day I'm going to be a cardiologist now. Okay, okay. You know? Then the years went by.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Third year, fourth year, fifth year.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Yeah. So then things like still get interesting. You know, then you do pulmonology. Okay. No, no, no. Pulmonology is not for me. TBs and all that stuff. Yeah. And then um, I think second semester of third year, then we do we did surgery. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Now we second semester of third year. Of third year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yeah. So now we do surgery. Uh the head of department at that time, a probecker. So with him, like the discipline, like, you know, getting to to to to to to I've heard that the University of Pretoria is very like military-style, discipline, shave, clean shave and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

No, it's it's like that. So like you guys used to wear ties and things.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

I used to wear ties for for these lectures. Yeah. I wonder if they do that now. They still do. Okay. They still do. Um, so like you would you you would go there, ties, white shirts, you know, like your hair must be combed, right? And you must not be late. Yeah. Your shoes must be polished. Okay. Or else you you go back home.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

And now you're telling me all this, and this attracted you to surgery.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

I think you see the discipline. Yeah. It like it attracted me to surgery. Really? Okay. Yeah. Because um I I was raised like by by people who were disciplinarians, you know. Okay. So I I would conform to what these guys would would like tell us to do and not even question. Yes, yeah. You know, so that that's how my grandfather was, and my grandmother was also sort of it was she was a bit relaxed, but my grandfather is one person who was who wouldn't take like nonsense. You know, okay, okay. So this like sort of like now played part. Now I'm like, okay, this is where my heart lies.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Okay. So you knew already in third year.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Well, remember there was cardiology at the beginning of the year. Yes, yes. Yeah. And now there is this sejl. Yeah. So I'm I'm still a bit conflicted. Yes, yes. Now we get to third year. On third year, I meet this wonderful uh friend of mine called Dr. Maseko. Yeah. Marcas. Yeah. Marco. So Marcosong. So Marco, like, was this also like a very, you know, vibrant ENT final registrar.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

And then I was thinking, no, no. Then he said, give us must come and do ENT, man.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Then I said, no, Marco, you know what? This is actually what I like. You know? And also, Prof. Prof. Mueller.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

I think his name was Prof. Mueller, who was the professor at that time. He would tell us stories about like the other consultants who work in his department, part-time consultants. They he's a rugby referee and whatever this uh other consultant, you're like, oh. So you can have a lot of free time and even be a referee or rugby. So like those kinds of things will entice you. But then, like, you know, it's you we were still young, as I said. Like, you're not like getting exposed to different things. You're getting exposed to different things. And you you get excited by every sort of like station, I would say. Of course. Yeah. You know? So like it was like that. Then, well, surgery, now I was still thinking, okay, ENT in my head. ENT, ENT, ENT, ENT. We finished. I was still thinking ENT. What do you mean you finished? After even after final year? After final year, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

But then uh now. How does it work? So you finish medicine after six years, right? Because it's a six-year degree. So if all goes well, you do that. Then you you got to do two years of internship. Two years of internship. At an academic hospital. Yeah. Where do you do that? Where did you do that?

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Uh not really academic. You you have to go to an institution that is accredited to train interns.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

So the way I think HPCA does it is there must be consultants there. Okay, so where did you go? Who can supervise? I went to JST. What's JST? Uh Job Shimon Ganotabana Hospital. And where's that? That's in Rastamber.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

So you went there for two years?

SPEAKER_00 34:14

I went there uh for two years.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Then I finished uh you're still trying to figure out now I'm gonna be an ENT. You're still thinking at that time.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

I'm still thinking at that time, yeah. But then I was I was sort of like still now attracted to surgery when I got to JST now, internship. Yes, in internship, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh I worked with the uh um an old man now who went to he was a Cuban uh old surgeon called uh Dr. Aleman. Yeah. He was working with um one South African surgeon, uh Dr. Skete. So the only two surgeons at the hospital at that time. And um like there is also like the same kind of principle. Time. Yeah. Two things like, you know, like discipline, basically. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

So maybe that's like a common thread with surgery.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Yes, yes. So like that's you know, like sort of like I think reinforced my love for surgery. Okay. So that's interesting. Yeah, yeah. I told myself, you know what? I think I found what I like.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Okay. So that's after, but then now you still have to do comserv, right? Community service.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

So you have to do community service. Where do you do it? So now when I finished in Rastenberg, I went to Kharankua now.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

That's by Medun, that's Medunser. Yeah. Um what do you call it? Uh Sefa Komakat.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Sefa Kumakat, yeah. So I went there now, started there in 20. So you got ComServ at Karankua? Yeah. Okay. 2014.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

So there, that's a nice post to get for ComSurf, because isn't ComServe usually you can get anywhere and everywhere, and you post it all over the place.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Yeah, so well, at that time, you see, we we it was um they were starting at trauma unit there. Okay. In in George Mukhar. So they were recruiting like junior people and like people who are interested in working in surgery or trauma to work in that unit.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

So not the majority of the people, you know, after internship, you want to sort of like explore the world and you know, because now you're sort of like you're not really an independent practitioner. You are a public service practitioner, but you're not under like strict control, like in in comsev. Yes. You can apply for like in an internship, you know. You're sort of like now an adult. Yes, yes. So you're no longer a student. You're no longer a student. Yeah. So we applied there. My friend like told me that no, they're starting a trauma unit here and you should just apply to do comsev here. Uh his name is Dr. Marikis Schizo. So Schizo said, no, apply him and uh so that we can work in the trauma unit. Yes. And then you can work your way up there. Then you can wear your work your way up there. And then worked out. That's like worked out because now I met this very brilliant and good mentor and teacher, Profkoto. Okay, oh yeah, yeah. They interviewed me uh with the one of my other mentors as well, Dr. Mutilal. Yeah, who's who's a trauma surgeon. You were starting the trauma unit at Jotwukar. Yes. They interviewed me, and then um, yeah, like after about two weeks or so, then we were told, no, you can come, you're gonna start working here in the trauma units. Comserve. Yeah. Okay. So we we established that trauma unit when we started with Dr. Mutilal. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

And then after you finish your ComServe year, you just what happens then?

SPEAKER_00 37:48

After I finished my ComServe year, um I well, I had the option of like going to work somewhere else. Yeah, you know. But then as a medical officer. Yeah, as a medical officer. I love surgery. We we we we we the trauma unit was still being established still, you know, it was growing, yeah. Then I told the professor and the my my my consultant, no, I would like to stay and work there. Then they gave me a contract, a permanent contract. As a medical officer. As a medical officer.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Then how do you get into specializing? So now after two years as a medical officer in trauma, then I got um uh I got a register post.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Okay, so you have to apply for that. Then there'll be vacancies. Because you must remember people listening and watching this podcast also are maybe high school students and people thinking about getting into medicine. So I want to give them an appreciation of how long the road is to get to where you are. Yeah. And you know, everything in between.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

So you're so you have to do two years as a medical officer, then you apply, you get into the specialist registrar post. Register post, yeah. And then how long do you have to be a registrar? So you have to be a registrar for at least four years. At least four years. Okay. And then you train under Prof Koto and consultants.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Train under uh Profkoto and the other consultants. At George Mukari. Yeah. Prof. Uh Prof Becker. Like there's many other consultants there like in different units.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

And what is it? How does it work?

SPEAKER_00 39:23

You just do surgeries, you know, for four years, you just operate. No, bruh. So it's it's not like that. So like in the in the first year, the program in George Mukari is in the first year is sort of like your kindergarten years. Okay. Yeah. So you do it's amazing because you're you're a whole doctor. Yeah. You're still now you're in kindergarten. Kindergarten. Okay. Yeah. So like uh so now in in in in in in in um first year of registration. Yeah. So like in in George Mukari. Yeah. I don't know about other universities how they do it, but like in George Mukari, uh the professor will say, no, no, you see, you do kindergarten uh rotations. This is prof quartel say yes. You do kindergarten rotations. So kindergarten rotations is your acute care.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Where you people come with septic legs and whatever, then you just cut the leg. Like amputate. Amputations. Yeah. And uh or debridments, you clean it up if it's still viable or whatever. Then um, like appendixes, you know. So you do appendix.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

So these are all kindergarten as well.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

This is in like all kindergarten stuff, yeah. Okay. And then um you also now do get to do trauma.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Like step abdomens, you learn how to explore the but you you place with a senior registrar, obviously. That's stabbed. So when people, when patients get stabbed. Someone gets stabbed in the community. Yeah. At bars or journal fights or whatever, step.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

And does this happen often? Remember, we've got we might have listeners and stuff from the UK and Well, at George Mukari, it happens, it's a high volume sensor.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

It happens quite often. Like how often? Every day? In trauma, it was like that time it was like every day. Every day you're seeing somebody that's stabbed. Every day. Every single day.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

It's either a stab or a gunshot to the abdomen. This is why people from America and things come and do their electives in the because remember Annand Ken. Yes, Annand can from America, you said you've seen gunshots and stabs every single day. Yeah. And this is like, it's not like in a very high-risk area. This is okay. So that's kindergarten. That's kindergarten stuff, yeah. Right. So you you amazing. Kinder stabs and things are kindergarten training for South African surgeon. Okay, go on.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Yeah, yeah. So, so yeah. So then you get to do that. You get to get people beaten by the community. Okay. And they sustain what you call like crushing jar. No, like they the community just picks whatever they want to pick. And crushes them. And beats them up. Okay. So now they sustain this uh crush injuries and they get they might get renal failure in the process because of the you know, myoglobin, urea, and all that stuff. So we got to manage those kinds of patients in trauma. Okay. Also, the ones who come with head injuries and polytraumas from maybe car accidents and stuff, you manage them with the other subdisciplines. So this is still kindergarten. Well, the other sub discipline. It's sort of like kindergarten for like, because now you you get to do like high grade surgeries where like when you're in second, third year, fourth year. Yeah, like what? You do like liver surgeries, okay. You do like stomach uh surgeries, resections, okay, you do rectum, that's high grade stuff. Okay, yeah. That uh that comes in second, third, and cancers and whatnot. That that comes in second year, third year, fourth year. Okay, that's something that uh uh a first year registrar would not comprehend. Okay, yeah, okay, you know, it's it's it's a lot of uh uh uh high grade stuff there. It's very technical. It's very technical, it's very demanding. You know, dealing with oncology, oncology on its own is just a lot. Okay, so those firms, the so-called senior firms.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Yeah, firm, what is a firm now? I don't get it. FM is. Remember, I'm a dentist, eh? Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, so like FM.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

There are so many people that have never been in the FM is like, okay, like uh there at SMU, you'd be like in prof cotos femmes. Yeah. That femme deals with specific pathology. Okay. Stomach cancers, cancers of the esophagus, uh, henias, complex henias, yeah, not just simple henias. And then you get uh also to deal with bariatrics, these big patients, you know, like um obese patients coming for for for for for obesity operations.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

In that one firm, and then that's who's in that one firm.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

It's Profkoto. At that time, he was with uh Annel Lantin. Yeah, what's that? Is that a surgeon? Another consultant. She's another surgeon. At that time when I was still at George Mukar. Okay. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

So a firm is made up of senior specialists, a specialist, a registrar, a senior registrar, and maybe some junior register.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Okay. A senior register may be a registrar that is in final year. But now they they don't put with the kindergarten guys, no. Yeah. With the guy who's maybe like in second year or third year.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

So then you just you work together, you see each other every day. Yes. Yes. And you discuss every day in the life of each each firm.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Yeah. Each firm has got like its own schedule. Okay. Yeah. So then okay, I I was explaining about this upper GIT firm, right? Now there's other firms like colorectal. There's another consultant there in Colorectal. Um, so he's the head of colorectal. Okay. No, the colorectal guys they deal with colon colon pathology. Yeah. Colon pathology, intestinal failure, and rectum pathology and anus. Okay. That's the only thing they deal with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

And then how long are you in that firm for? So you you go three months, three months, three months, three months.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

So you rotate and you get the whole picture.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

The whole picture. Yeah. So each femme now, you were asking about how does it work with each femme. So each firm has got its own schedule. Okay. Colorectal and this one, uh, upper GI, uh Prof. It's got its own schedule. So with um let me give an example. Like the one, the upper GI one, on Mondays is our let's say it's our day of admission. Okay. Admitting patients who are going for elective surgeries the following day. Okay. Yeah. Those who come from home, we must admit them, do their blood tests, do their x-rays, do basically pre-operative wake up. It's our pre-operative wake up day.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Yeah. Then we go with the professor around, we're showing him the patients that we are booking for surgeries. Then he would advise okay, this one, please, you must add one, two, three on the test that you can and uh and when you're walking around in your firm, there's like four or five of you with the prof.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

Yeah. And then it's the tense. And then the patient is just is in the bed. Yeah. And there's like four or five people hovering around a patient. That patient is just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Okay, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So like, but all the patients, like they, they, they know the professor. Because they were taking it.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

I'm a patient. I would love, I would like that because you at least you know you've got like five people looking after you. But it can also be like a bit intimidating and a bit.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

No, well, uh, for patients, it wasn't, it wasn't um like it is a bit of an invasion of privacy. You know what I mean? Exactly. Exactly. It is. But you know, the thing is the fact that you know like you are at an academic hospital. Being taken, I think it yeah, it makes them at ease. Yeah. You know, and most of the time, they wouldn't, they would know the registrar, of course, but because maybe they would have walked their journey with the professor before the the registrers come.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

They before the registrers rotate. Yes, yes. Now you will be the new registrar. Now the patient comes, he's been wet up for the past three months or something. Those old registrers are gone. Yeah. But the patients would know the owner of the firm, sort of, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

There's always that constant link there.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

That's the it's always a constant link. The professor is a constant link. Okay. So they would know, and then you would say, okay, you know, and then you'd question the senior registrar. So the operation that we're doing tomorrow, so what do you think? Yeah. Or the technicalities. The professor, yeah. Okay, well, ask like the technical thing. Ask the senior registrar. Yeah. The senior registrar will answer the technicalities of the operation and the complications and whatever, whatever, whatever. You know, the anatomy and all that stuff. But when it comes to like small questions, yeah, like you know, more standard grade ones.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Yeah, like go to the junior age.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Well, the junior registrar, not so much. Yeah. But they will also get like a bit of he knows how to, you know, the professors they know how to delegate and how to how to grade. Yeah, yeah. This one, so Yash is a senior register. Yash, I'm going to ask him this. Uh, Kfas is a medal register. This is the question that's relevant for him. Like, they've been in the game for like so many years. So, like, they know this one is for this one, this one is for this. And when it comes, you know, it goes to the level of like fourth years. Okay. Fourth year medical students. Oh, four-tier medical students. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

So it's quite a big crew that's walking around. Crew of surgeons. It's a big crew. Wouldn't be surgeons. It's a big crew. And uh and this happens for four years now of as a register. Of your life. Yeah. Absolutely. And then you operate when you operate, you do you assist? You start off by assisting a surgeon, you know, how does that work? Yeah. So you just in the deep end.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

No, no, no, no. It's not like that. So remember when you're in now that kindergarten rotations, the acute care, the what what? So, like you place with the senior register. Okay. You get an appendix, it shows you how to do an appendix. Okay. It says, okay, this is remember in the anatomy, you do this, we do this, you do that. Then on a piece of paper. No, no, no. In the in the the thing is that you must go and read. Yeah. You read first. How to do the surgical technique textbooks. Right. When you come and do an appendix with a senior register, you are assisting. Okay. You're not operating. So you just you show you, yeah. What if you're holding the camera?

SPEAKER_02 49:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

And he's operating laparoscopically.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

Then he's telling you, okay, this is how we do this, this is how we do this. Then the next time, yeah, not maybe immediately, yeah, but after maybe he's inducted you for like five, five uh procedures of the same procedure. He will then say, okay, listen, now it's your turn now to do what I've been doing. Yeah. And now you're shivering now.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Depends on you, on the person. It depends on the person. Somebody might be have been itching to do it from day one. Exactly. Exactly. Those are the ones that scare me personally.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Ones that want to do it. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Remember, some people also now come to become registrars to train when they had already been like medical officers and were operating whenever they were working. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

They're much more comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

They're much more comfortable. Yeah. You know? But the assumption is that you are in kindergarten, you're going to be shown how things are done here in this institution. You might have somewhere else. If you've done it for five, ten years. But you must be shown.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

So they slowly work you up. Yeah, they slowly work you up. And then um, yeah, so like you then you you you sort of like like know how to do things now in for them. Yeah, yeah. You know. So that's that's the thing. But like, you know, like we we we sort of deviated on like the firm kind of uh yeah yeah. So that's the pre-operative wake up day, Monday. Tuesday, you're operating. Yeah. Wednesday is like now is like now like a clinic. Yeah. You go see those patients that you operated, then you go to a clinic. Okay. A clinic is when you see the stable people who are coming for follow-ups, yeah, and those who are coming for for surgical problems that need intervention. Okay, okay. And then uh Thursdays was like scopes. We were doing gastroscopes. Okay. For people with uh scope uh pathologies that need to be done scopes. Yeah. Then Fridays, Fridays, we were doing the word round, then we would operate at Brights.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

So every firm has got Britts is how far from it's quite far away.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

Bright's from Harangua's like maybe I think it's 30 kilometers. Okay, not bad. Okay. It's like 30 minutes to drive there. And Fridays? That's Fridays. Fridays, okay, and Saturdays? No, Saturdays, then if you're not on call, you relax. Or like whoever is is doing the so you can be on call on a weekend.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

And what happened what do you do on court as a surgeon in training?

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Yeah, so now when you're on call now, all the emergencies that get transferred from small hospitals, yeah, you operate them. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

So it's a 24 hour, seven days a week type of thing. Yeah. Four years.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

But if you no, but if you're not on call, then you get to relax. Okay. You it's a weekend off. Okay. But still you must organize someone within yourselves as registrers to go and see the inpatients. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

So then you special after four years, you specialize, right? Finish, you do all of that for four years, every day. I I can imagine you don't take much leave. No, your leaf is controlled.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

You know what I mean? You're writing exams? You're writing in that times, yeah. Tests. But lucky enough with me, I did my primaries. So there's there's three sets of of thinning for this um exams, yeah. For this uh program. Yeah. For the training surgical training program. So you do your fellowship college of uh surgeons with the uh College of Medicines of South Africa. Okay. So there's three sets of exams. There's primaries, there's intermediates, there's um, there's finals. There's okay, three sets of exams for the College of Medicines. Yeah. So I wrote my primaries when I was still in the medical office. Okay. That you can do when you're still in medical office. Oh, before you get into the specialist program. Yeah. Yeah. Into the university program. Yeah, the registrar program. Register program, yeah. And then uh I, because I was in an academic institution, I was in trauma. Then I got to rotate in ICU. Okay. I went to ICU full three months in ICU. Right. Then when I finished, yeah, then the professor in ICU and your professor can then sign, say, no, he's been working in trauma for more than uh three months. Yeah. And the ICU and say he came to be under my supervision for three months for intensive care patients. Yeah. Then you can write intermediate. Okay. So I did all of that while I was still in the medical office. Okay, okay. Yeah. And then the the finals, when's that? The finals now you you can't get in, jump in, and then after one year you write. You know you have those other ones. Yes. No.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

You must your professor has to tell you when you can write. Yeah, when you are ready. Wow. It's it's interesting, eh? Like it's long. It's I mean, okay, so how many years? Let's just calculate. So you do six years, you do two years pre-med, then you do six years undergrad, that's eight years. Then you do four years of reg. That's 12 years.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

That's 12 years. Now you you must also include now internship.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

Oh, yes. I forgot before we got to the this so it comes to about 15 years before you are a surgeon. Yeah. Minimum. And that's minimum, yeah. Because you you you got it through in minimum. Yeah. Okay. So you make it to you specialize now. I've seen your website. It's actually, I didn't know you had this fancy website. You didn't really show it to me, but it looks great. Yeah. It's it's chhofamudimoasi.co.z a. Right. And I I went on to the first the last night when I was researching things. You know, I actually do some work with this thing. You'll be surprised. And I'm going to read what it said. It says Dr. Capus obtained a Bachelor of Medicine degree from the University of Pretoria in 2011 and went on to complete a Master of Medicine in general surgery residency at Sepaku Machato Health Sciences University in 2018 to 2022. During this time, Dr. Capus conducted research on the outcomes of laparoscopic appendectomy in cases of four quadrant post grade five acute appendicitis. In addition, you completed a fellowship of College of Surgeons. That's what you're talking about. And then you also have previous work experience at George Mukari Academic Hospital in Pretoria. And it goes on and it ends there, right? So is being a surgeon stressful?

SPEAKER_00 55:59

You don't look stressed, I can tell you, but no, yeah. I guess it's because I'm with you, man. It's sort of like catch up with me and you, you know, like but uh it's very stressful. Okay, it's very stressful, like um you know, it's like every day you're worried about something or about someone's life. Yeah, that is hectic. Yeah, you're worried about someone's life and us like being um people who come from from families and whatever, you know, as you grow older, you you you you you you tend to realize that you know, an individual that I'm treating, I'm not treating an individual here. This individual is a father, is an uncle. Yeah. This individual is a husband. Yeah. You know, they're a breadwinner. Yeah, a breadwinner. Community person, yeah. Community person, you know, like a pastor or whatever. Like there's so many things. When you like when I look at myself, or when I look at you, there's so many things around us. You know? Do you think do you think that all all surgeons think like this though? Well, I think that's the way people should think. Well, you're saying should. Yeah. I'm asking you your very specific. Well, I think they do. Okay. I think uh most surgeons, that is why they're very strict and they, you know, when something goes wrong, you know, like you give uh a milliliter over what they prescribe, they become frustrated.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

When they train you, do they tell you about these things? Absolutely, and then remind you like you're not just treating a one patient, you're treating a family.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

Well, it's it's what goes on every day. Yeah. Remember now, in on top of all these things that we are telling you about of the program in each firm. Yeah in Harangua, every day, seven o'clock until nine o'clock, you are in a post sort of like intake meeting. Okay. Where the people who were on call last night, they come, they report, oh, we operated so many patients, and this first one we did one to. Then they get asked, What did you do with this one? How did you do this? How did you do this? So it's like it's sort of like a an interview every day. And work never leaves you because now you work never leaves you. After nine o'clock, yeah, you must go and work. You know, after reporting and being inter, like being quizzed every every day of your life. And private practice, it doesn't change. Because now you're in private, right? It doesn't change. Actually, private practice now, the the people now who demand answers from you. Yeah, is I would say I would say it's I think it's even worse. Yeah. More demanding. Yeah. Because now it's the family. More stressful, yes. It's not the professor anymore. Yeah, yeah. It's the family. Yeah. And anything that you don't explain well or anything that might have gone wrong and you don't report it, you don't become open about it, yeah, might become a source like, you know, people being now concerned. Yeah. And then they seek like maybe second opinion, and then they might come with litigations that related things that no, no.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

Do you get complaints and patient complaints and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 59:21

You you like I I myself, like, I've gotten like um a well, a complaint that no, you know, we worried this, this was not, yeah, was not done right.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

I mean, I suppose, but for people listening, yeah, I think it's important to mention this. But surgery is a very high-risk field, and it's almost inevitable that you'll get at least one in your life, if not many, many, many more. Complications. Complications and complaints and unhappy families and patients. Exactly. Um so private is much more demanding in the sense that you're not just dealing with the prof. But I'm guessing you're also probably doing bullying. All of those things are different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

So, like um in in in in private, it's not, you know, in the state is is to work in the to be a surgeon in the state only. Yeah. And to be a surgeon in private, yeah, is two different worlds. Okay. Yeah. Tell me. It's two different worlds in the sense that um in public, yeah, you come there as um uh Dr. Ufamudim, you just say, okay, uh, this person has got a hennia. Okay. You say, uh, I would like to help this individual next week on my elective list. Yeah. Like, you know, uh we operating this person next week. Then um you don't have to do authorization with the medical aid to explain to them, no, I need to operate this person and put mesh, yeah. This sort of a mesh that I want to do, this is the technique that I want to use.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

You're talking about you have to write a motivation letter to the medical aid.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:02

That's finally your PA must call the medical aid, says doctor wants to do maybe laparoscopic HNA repair.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

Okay. Well, you've got a PA, I mean. Yeah, yeah. You've got a PA. You have to have a PA.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

Yeah, you can't do it yourself. Okay. When I started my private practice, I was doing all those things myself. Right. I would call the medical aid and say, hey, listen, I've got someone here, but then the practice like starts getting busy. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

You're not operating two, three cases. You can do it if you're starting off and things are not booming, but as soon as things boom, it'll be a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:33

As soon as things start uh becoming busy, yeah. You can't uh do those things. You have to have someone who's sitting there at your office, who's booking theaters for you, who's doing this authorization.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

Okay, so what does a day in the life of a private practice surgeon look like now? Where are you up where you do you operate?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

I'm I'm at uh Life Park Larry Hospital in in Rastenberg. Life Hospital in Rastenberg, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

And um and also at Netcare there in Rastenberg. So you're at life and net care, both in Rastenberg. So two different hospital groups, private practice. Yeah. What is the day in the life of that? What do you do? You wake up on a Monday morning and what?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

You wake up Monday morning, you go see your patients in the what in ICU, whatever the case might be. Then you go to your office, you see your patients that are booked by your PA. Yeah. You you see them, you plan their surgeries. You don't you you discuss with them that this is the surgery you need. Yeah. And whatever, depending on the condition.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:29

Then you tell your secretary, hey, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

So now you're discussing directly with the patient. You're not no longer standing there with 10 people around the patient's and talking to prof. You are connecting with the patient directly. Yes. And they know you and you're the person responsible for them. For them. And so am I right or am I wrong? It's like you have to connect a bit more with them.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

Yes, you have to connect with your patient because now, you know, you you have to to sort of like uh buy their confidence in you. Yeah, and win their trust. That you you you you you you are capable of.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

Yeah. It's all about trust. They need to trust you, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

How do they come to you? How do you people refer? So most of the time, you see, as a specialist, you it's it's different because now it's not like a GP, like it's a walk-in and whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

There, it's like maybe your GPs, the network of GPs, would say, no, you know, you have this kind of a condition, but it needs surgical intervention. The surgeon that I refer to is Dr. Alpha Modi.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:32

Okay, and how do you build that network?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

You build that network through like uh former colleagues. Okay. You know, former colleagues from people that study in medical school. Yeah, former colleagues from from maybe um when you're specializing. Yes. And you know, you know why worked with people.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

Because I always thought, you know, one of the beautiful things about healthcare is that because I remember I also did law and I became a lawyer, right? And networking was a huge part of that. Yeah. You have to go and do business development and go and have drinks and meet with clients and things. And I always think the medics have it beautiful because you don't really need to do this network building type of thing. Yeah. Am I right or am I wrong? Because it sounds like you still have to build a network.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

Yeah. No, you you you you have to you have to build a network, but it's it's not about going out and to dinners and whatnot. It's about most of the time, you will see it's about um it's about like how you relate with people. Okay. Yeah. How you relate with people. Relationship. Yeah. Relationships with people. If you are a rude person, no one will want to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:45

If I'm a GP and I think our cafes is just difficult, I'm not gonna.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Exactly. Yeah. You're not gonna you like you sort of like impose that on your patients. That no, no, you see that doctor, the way he treats people, he's rude, he's what what. And you might be that. I don't want you to go to that person because maybe you might have certain questions that might irritate him and then he becomes rude to you. Yes. That's how even though he or she is might be the most technically gifted. Gifted, yeah. But the fact that he's rude, he doesn't know how to relate with people, yeah, then it puts them at a so it's important.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

Your relationship is important not only with your patient, but also with your colleagues. With your colleagues. And your network. Yeah. And I'm I'm assuming because you mentioned it started to boom that you've built those relationships and you got a stream of relationships going and people are sending for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

So it's it's it's most of the time is referrals from from like general practitioners, as I said, and then also the specialist physicians and other colleague surgeons. Yeah, yeah. You know, like maybe um I would say maybe um a physician sees someone with uh uh a thyroid, and then they might come to the physician, they say, No, no. Because of like uh symptoms of uh hyperthyroid disease or something. Yeah. And they say no, but you know what? They sort them out medical issues, and then they say no, but eventually you're gonna need surgery. Yeah, yeah. Refer them to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

Okay. Yeah. So it's uh seven days a week still in private practice. Yeah, private practice, seven days a week. Maybe even more than seven days. Except when you're in recording podcasts. At least you've got time. I mean, you can, you know. Who covers you? Well, so now you're working today?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

I went to do the water round this morning. This morning. It's a Saturday morning. Okay. And now, so you worked. I worked in the morning, then I came to the house. Any hobbies? Yeah, so like um I I my hobbies really is like to wait, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

I saw that you call yourself a black boar. Are we going there now? What what is this? No, that I've got international listeners also, so just explain. A black boar means black farmer. Yeah, a black farmer.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:58

Yeah, yeah. What's the so so so yeah. So that's um that's one of the things that I do on my extra time, you know. Is that a hobby? Yeah. Farming. Farming is like one of my where? What? When my my my my farm is in Botswana. Yeah. And um we we we farm cattle, okay, we farm sheep, we farm goats, we farm um chickens and and horses as well. Where is this? Botswana. In in Lobatse, or no, not in Lubatse, like just some small. How did this happen, Kevis? Well, like I've all I come from like a farm farming family.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

No, hold on. I mean, your your dad is in mining. Yeah. Mom in admin. I didn't hear this farming. Okay, the farming is is the old people. Okay. Remember when you were growing?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

Yeah, the eldest, the eldest. Yeah, yeah. When when we were growing, Emily and his brothers. Okay. Yeah, and his other siblings. The grandmother and her siblings and all that. So far, guys, they came from like this background of their father was a farmer, he was also a soldier.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:02

But maybe that's why you and I uh became such good friends, because I think we have a similar background, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

Yeah, we're raised by by yeah, you know. And I was born in, you know, the farm, yeah. So like um farming it comes from there. Yeah, but livestock farming, yeah. It's livestock farming. Yeah, but they also used to have like fields where they farm, they do horticulture. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

So you've got farms and bots, and you go there and you what do you do? You do you shear the sheep and milk the cows and things? No, not really. There's workers there, man. Are you like Jeremy Clarkson? You've got your own farm and you're just running it, you fund it, and you people just do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:34

No, no, no, no. So what I do myself, like, because I'm here, yeah, you know, I'm I'm working, I'm a professional. Yeah. I can't do like professional farming. It's impossible. Yeah, it's impossible. So that's a full-time job, yeah. Yeah, I've got uh uh someone there. Uh his name is Mandler. Mandler. Shout out to Mandler, yeah. Yeah. So Mandler. Will he watch this? Yeah, he's gonna watch this. Yeah, Mandler is techno. Yeah, yeah. We'll chat with him on WhatsApp, you know. So like uh Mandler like looks after the the livestock there. Okay, yeah. And like my mom is very into this as well, you know. Okay. She she's she's she's into this farming. So like she goes there a lot. Like she checks on Mandlar, how are things going? It's a big firm. Like, it's a big firm, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:25

So when am I okay, I'm gonna come visit. I've never been to bots. Yeah. I need, I've been promising there's an orthodontist in Botswana, Dr. Um Kulobane. I've told him I'm coming to bots. I'm probably gonna be visiting Kayfest.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:37

And I'm gonna visit his practices.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:39

Well, let's we must set up a date. Okay. Not not this year, December, because the old lady's gonna come and spend Christmas here, man. Okay, farming.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:46

That's a big hobby to have. Yeah, anything else, fishing and stuff, but you live on a lovely estate, you just took me around in the dam here. You're not um fishing and no fishing.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:56

I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't do fishing. The first time you saw the ocean was with me. Yeah. Yeah. That was the first time.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:03

Okay, so at least I remember he took me too. I broadened your uh you broadened mine also soon with the farming. Can you imagine a life without surgery? Or would you have chosen? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:16

I can't. Now that I'm I'm there, I can't imagine my life without being a surgeon. When will you stop? When your body stops you? Yeah. You know, I think I'll stop only when the while operating like growing old, osteoarthritis, and you know, all the other old age diseases. Yeah. To me, that's the problem with surgery.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

You have to be there.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:37

Yeah, yeah. No, but you know, surgery has got like a you can diversify your profile. Okay. You know, you can be an elderly surgeon, yeah, over 70, okay, but still go and um and and and sit in advisory boards, okay, you know, in HPCSC, sit in advisory boards of the hospital. Yeah. You know, I guess. Yeah, consultant, but in that type of. Yeah, be a consultant, sort of, you know? Yeah. Even though the issue with that is always there's new technology coming in all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

So you've got to keep yourself abreast of all the things.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:14

Exactly. And like technology in medicine is very it's like rapidly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:18

Like five years ago, things have changed. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:21

You know? So five years ago, or maybe I would say like maybe 20 years ago, or maybe 30, let's say 30 years ago. Yeah. The surgeons of 30 years ago, they would operate with a stitch, a certain type of a stitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, cap cut and whatever, whatever. Then the the stitches they keep on improving. Okay. Now we don't use stitches anymore to anastomose barrel, to put bowel together. Well, we still use stitch, yeah. You know, when like a small hole, and then you stitch it up. Yeah. But the material that's being used now is not that that old one that the old professor was using.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

So now we use staples now. Okay. You cut uh someone's uh gut, you put it together with staples. And like also other cities, like a lot of robotics and all these types of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

Robotics. Okay, but you see that you probably do this until you can't do it anymore. And then maybe you'll go to your farm and finish off there. Yeah. If you had to choose a different specialty, if somebody said no, you have to choose something else. I can't say no.

unknown 1:12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:22

If I had to choose a different specialty. Um let me see.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:30

Because I'm assuming ENT is just like a branch of, it's like a sub-branch of surgery, or not really.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:35

Yeah, it's it's it's a it's a specialized surgery for ear, nose, and throat. Yeah. Yeah. But it's still surgery. It's still surgery, yeah. The one cardiology, I'm guessing. I think I would, yeah, cardiology. Okay. Yeah. It would be cardiology for the, but then the thing is, for you to be a cardiologist, you have to go through internal medicine. Yeah, all these different paths. Yeah, you know, it's it's like someone who's a vascular surgeon, you still have to go through general surgery and become a vascular surgeon.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:02

Yeah, yeah. You know, okay. So it's a totally different part. Yeah. And uh you've got like what three beautiful kids, what do you want them to be when they grow up? Because uh you mentioned earlier, you said you the elders pressured you to medicine. Are you gonna do the same thing? You're gonna send them into medicine.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:16

No, nowadays, you know, the the world nowadays is is different from when we were growing up. Yeah. You know, when you were growing up, you'd be asked, hey man, no, you must be a professional, you must be a what is this, a lawyer, you must be a doctor, you must be a person. Yeah, yeah. Nowadays, kids can come and tell you, no, no, Daddy, I want to be a professional dancer.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

If that's what is in his mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

So Emily, the little Emily was telling me I want to do a be a YouTuber.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

Yeah, she wants to be a YouTuber, you know. But this is kids. But I feel like we we we have a role to play in our kids' life in the sense that you can sort of like pursue them towards what you want them to be, but you must not force. You must not force. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:59

You can steer and guide, but yeah, at the end of the day, it must be there. Yeah, you you can sort of like advise.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Yeah, you know, if you see someone is sharp in maths and physics, you can say, hey man, you know what? You can be a structural engineer. Okay. And then that sort of like rings bells in their head all the time, and they look at it, they research and what, what, what.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:18

So it's not gonna be you're not gonna rule with the iron first and say you better do this, otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:21

No, no, no, no. Okay, it's it's it can't be that way. But as long as someone is a professional, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:26

Okay, and then that's interesting. There's I'm gonna do a lightning round. Quick questions. You mustn't think, you must just answer. Yeah. Early bird or night owl. You early bird. And both. Okay, well, you see that tractor or horseback? Right. Uh horseback. Would you rather milk a cow or shear a sheep? Uh milk a cow. Okay. Describe yourself in three words.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:53

Um you see um um uh that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:04

Okay, we'll leave it. You've got it, we've got it. Yeah, tell me. Three words, KP. Uh loving, yeah, friendly, yeah, uh easy to go. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:14

I I'll agree with all of those. Yeah, if you could choose one procedure to do for the rest of your life as a surgeon, which one would it be? Quickly. Uh henial repair. Okay, that was easy for you. I did I thought I thought you were gonna take more time. I'm gonna close now with the question that I'm I think I'm gonna ask most of my guests, right? Yeah, if someone came to you now and said to you, maybe a high school student or somebody like that, or somebody in pre-med or whatever, said you I'm thinking of doing medicine. Do you have any advice for me?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:46

What would you tell them? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:49

So what I would tell them is that medicine is a lifetime commitment. It's not a career that you get in and then you say, Ah, you know what? Um I can just do something with this degree. Besides, it's it's something that you have to do and you have to like be sure about, you know. It's very demanding in the hours, the work that you put in as a student right from the beginning. Yeah. No, you used to do calls as students. Yeah. Time that you put in, and you must know that uh as you grow into the career as well, into specialties more special and subspecialities. It doesn't some for some people it it it they have this perception that as you you grow uh older in into the career, you become you relax. Yeah, yeah. You know, we are a consultant, you relax. No. You're still going to spend time in the hospital. Yeah. Your family is gonna miss you. And like you have to have someone who people who are very understanding around you. Yeah, you know. So it's something that you you have to really have the heart for it. Yes. Yeah. For it to work for you. Okay. I think that's it. If not, then like it's people like just uh jump off along the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:23

I think that's brilliant advice. Yeah. My boy, thank you so much. Let's hope this comes out well. We sat outside your garden. For the listeners, first we went to the dam, which is around the corner from Kfis's house, and we realized it's way too windy there. Then we said, let's come here. And he's got three beautiful kids, but you know, as people who have kids will know, they're very noisy, so we're worrying about that. And on this estate, there's I I'll put a photo on my Instagram because when I was driving in, I had to stop at a st at a stop street which said planes crossing and planes have the right of way. So there were planes flying over and helicopters and all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:59

I hope they didn't disturb the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:01

Let's see how the audio comes out and what uh we can work our magic. But either way, even if it's not, I think the content was great, and I really appreciate your time and your friendship. Yeah, and uh yeah, let's see how it goes. Thanks a lot, man. Thanks, you know? Cheers, yeah, all the best, dad. Thank you.